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[rmaddock]

Hello all!

Because I don't have enough to do  and am constantly on the lookout for things to do with the boys to prove that technology is doable by mortals, I asked for a simple steam engine kit last Xmas. I got it!  One of these: http://www.forest-classics.co.uk/Basic%20Boiler%20Kit.htm

Now, it's nothing like as exciting as what you chaps build, I know, but I've got no serious tools and no budget.  I've made a start on the fire box and will be able to do most of it but....

• 1 I need to solder the end-caps onto the boiler and my little torch just isn't up to it.
• 2 I need to drill a hole through the centre of the nut shown to form the safety valve.
• 3 I need to solder said nut into place.

Can anybody in the South Lakes (Barrow/Ulverston) area help me with these please?

Cheers,

Robert.

[boatmadman]

Hi Robert,

Sorry, cant help you with the soldering, my gear isnt big enough for that. Why not get down to the club on Sunday Morning and ask around?

If you are still stuck with the drilling, I can do that for you, let me know.

Ian

[rmaddock]

That sounds like a possible plan Ian. It will require me to get out of bed early though. 

[john s 2]

Ideally use silver solder. It has a higher melting point. Could you borrow a plumbers torch? John.

[rmaddock]

Solder etc I have. I wonder if my Dad's got a bigger torch?

[boatmadman]

Rob,

DO NOT use anything other than silver solder, all the soft solders weaken at temps not far way from boiler temperature and can lead to catastrophic failure of the boiler.

I dont know if you have any steam/boiler experience, but just in case you haven't - DO NOT underestimate the energy even a little unit like yours can contain. Whilst it is within the capacity allowed without testing, for your own, and your children's safety (no doubt your kids will want to play with it) at least get a hydraulic test on it once its completed. This is the ONLY way I know of that will prove the boiler is safe to operate.

Whilst this unit is a nice small introduction the steam, I am actually uncomfortable with this unit as it has no indication of water level within the boiler. It can be operated safely, but you really need to be aware of the safety issues.

I dont wish to scare you, but, more importantly, I would hate to see anyone get hurt through lack of knowledge or understanding.

I give the above as advice and experience gained from over 30yrs operating marine and industrial high pressure steam plant.

Come down to the club, we have two boiler testers (myself included), we are happy to help.

Ian

[rmaddock]

Okay Ian, will do. My experience extends to childhood playing with Mamod and similar.
I have "silver bearing metal work" solder courtesy of B&Q which I've been using to tack other bits 'n' bobs together. However, I'm also a paid up member of the cowards club which is why I was asking for some help. 

[chingdevil]

If you get no assistance in your neck of the woods, if you want to post it to London I will take it into work and do it for you.

Brian

[rmaddock]

That's very tempting Brian. Thank you. I shall bear that offer in mind.

[Norseman]

As a Steam curious virgin .......
I wonder if someone could say what these tests are and who does them.
Cheers

Dave

[boatmadman]

Dave
A hydraulic test is done to test the integrity of the boiler drum. Pressure is taken to twice normal working pressure. The boiler must hold this pressure for a period of time to confirm no leaks.
There is also a safety valve test to establish that it operates at the correct pressure and that with the burner on full the steam pressure does not continue to rise.
There is a steaming check to ensure all fittings are functioning properly and safely.
Also, all fittings and standard of construction are assessed for suitability.
Ian

[Norseman]

Thanks Ian - is this done by/at a club or is it specialist work?

Dave

[boatmadman]

The tests are carried out by registered boiler inspectors. These guys are deemed competent by reason of experience and qualification.
Tests are carried out under the supervision of two inspectors where possible.

Inspectors may not test or examine a boiler built or owned by themselves.

[gondolier88]

Dave,

I would be willing to help, but there is a problem that precludes me from offering to do so- the material you have used for the boiler is brass sheet, not copper. Brass is recommended to be left well alone for boiler manufacture- it is difficult to silver solder without melting, which can lead to not putting enough heat into the job due to not wanting to waste your materials, dependant upon it's alloy properties it can also become very brittle at elevated pressures and temperatures. ie. steam.

I'm not saying it's impossible- there are hundreds if not thousands of low pressure brass boilers out there, but they are put together by large companies with insurance to cover any litigation and insurance approved designs, as such you will struggle to find someone willing to put their name to 'simply' silver soldering your boiler together.

Wish you luck, and hope you get your boiler put together safely soon.

Greg

[Norseman]

Hi Greg - it's Rob's thread; I just asked a question about testing 

Dave

[Circlip]

the material you have used for the boiler is brass sheet, not copper.

  Errr, the tube is supplied as part of a kit and perhaps, before everyone starts advising the O/P what he should be doing  , RTFM springs to mind and follow what the manufacturer advises. If scratch building, I too would have advised Copper for the shell, but I haven't bought the kit.

  Regards  Ian.

[boatmadman]

This is the ONLY way I know of that will prove the boiler is safe to operate.

I think I should clarify this:

This is the only ECONOMICAL way I know for a model boiler to prove integrity. You can of course do it by NDT testing using ultrasonics and x ray. But of course, this is the industrial method and costs serious money, not to mention the issues around using radio active sources.

Ian

[rmaddock]

Okay. I'm beginning to wish I'd never asked but thanks for all the comments anyway.

[ooyah/2]

Okay. I'm beginning to wish I'd never asked but thanks for all the comments anyway.

Rob,
Don't be afraid of your project, the supplier has given instructions on HOW TO do it.
I would take Boatmadmans ( Ians ) advice and go to the club and seek help on how to put it together safely, your brass tube is a seamless extrusion and will be very thin gauge, so all the help that you can get in putting it together is a bonus.
Whatever you do don't take it to your local plumbers shop to have it soldered as the majority of them haven't a clue on Silver Soldering of small model boilers and have never made one..
You will have great satisfaction when you have completed your project in seeing your engine turn over and who knows you may be converted to steam.
George.

[rmaddock]

Thanks George!
I don't know what qualifies as thin gauge, but the tube walls are about (haven't got the callipers to hand) 1mm thick. The end caps are 3mm.
I'm not frightened of the project itself. I'm old enough to have had engines like this round in childhood.....regularly repaired by my Dad in the garage. Which is not to say that I disregard the safety advice 'cause I don't but sometimes you ask a question and end up feeling that getting out of bed was risky.

[boatmadman]

gettin outta bed is always risky!

Dont get hung up about it, its just basic safety knowledge you need to understand.

It would not have been right for someone not to point these things out to someone new to steam modelling, no one wants to hear of accidents/injuries that could be avoided.

Ian

[Circlip]

Mamod (Malins) Brass tube is far thinner than that supplied. What do the instructions say for fixing the end plates on? And although one should never assume, if you're building the "Simple Steam Plant" from the suppliers you have indicated, it ain't going to be put in a boat so the full gamut of Blue book testing isn't required. The only rule to observe, which applies to all boilers is don't let it run out of water

   Regards  Ian.

[rmaddock]

The parts supplied seem, to my inexpert eye, quite well made. The boiler tube and endcaps have been machined so as to make quite a good mechanical joint, me thinks.  A close up picture should follow. The instructions say: "clean up and position ends, then flux, use silver solder to join.
There's a lot of safety stuff in the booklet including details of pressure testing and the maths behind the safety valve. Working pressure is 1.5 bar.

I have had an offer of local tutelage which I think I'll take up.

[Norseman]

I have had an offer of local tutelage which I think I'll take up.

I forsee another expensive addiction Rob

Dave