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Author Topic: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.  (Read 16089 times)

Popeye

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HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
« on: April 19, 2012, 11:16:20 AM »

Post  1

INTRODUCTION.
HMS Thames is based on ‘Supply’, a Deptford (London) yard transport built on the Thames in 1759. After spending 28 years on fleet supply duties  she was re-fitted to serve as the naval tender and armed escort to the first convict fleet to sail for Australia..

Supply proved to so fast that the Fleet’s commanding officer, dissatisfied with the performance of his flagship ‘Sirius’, transferred to Supply thereby making the Fleet’s oldest and smallest  craft  his flagship.

She led the Fleet into Port Jackson, later to become Sydney, thereby establishing the first British settlement in Australia, an event commemorated by the depiction of the brig on  Australia’s bicentennial $10 note. ‘Supply’ continued to serve the infant colony until 1798 when she was classed as unseaworthy, and ended her days as a storeship until being broken up in 1807.

What Scale?
I would have preferred to build the model to 1:24 scale, but an estimated weight of 75lbs – 80lbs  convinced me that 1:32 scale and a  weight of  27lbs -30 lbs would be much kinder on my back and less likely to result in a hernia.
Scale: 1:32
Length:- Waterline: 875mm/34.5” Overall (stern post to bowsprit): 1254mm/49.4”,
Beam:: 240mm/9.45”
Height:  (keel to Mainmast Bob): 927mm/36.5”
Draft: (excluding bolt-on fin) 114.3mm/4.5”

To be continued………………………..
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JerryTodd

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Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2012, 01:28:53 PM »

Very very nice!

dreadnought72

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Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2012, 01:34:37 PM »

^ What Jerry said!

How well does she sail? Can we have some info regarding the sheeting/winching arrangements, please?

Andy
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tt1

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Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2012, 02:33:29 PM »

What a lovely model, well done you  O0 nice to see something a little different.

                           Regrads, Tony.
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Popeye

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Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2012, 03:23:04 PM »

^ What Jerry said!

How well does she sail? Can we have some info regarding the sheeting/winching arrangements, please?

Andy

All will be revealed in due course (in future posts) :-))
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triumphjon

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Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2012, 03:43:25 PM »

very nice , is she just sail , or have you got motor assistance ?
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pettyofficernick

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Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2012, 06:54:13 PM »

A nice ship indeed, but how did you do it? :-)) :-)) :-))
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tigertiger

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Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2012, 08:25:12 AM »

Very nice indeed
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Popeye

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Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2012, 10:33:38 AM »

Post  2.

PREPARATORY WORK.
It was anticipated from the outset that access into the hull and space therein would be somewhat cramped as a result of which important decisions had to be made concerning (1) servo positions, sheet runs, fairlead exits and battery locations, (2) stability and ballasting (3) ) auxiliary propulsion) and (4) location of bolt-on fin.
 
Servos locations. A test rig (The Bird Cage)  was fabricated in order to experiment with sail control options. Lever arm servos (Hitec HS815BB for yards, HS765HB for Driver, Staysail and Jib) were tried in various positions to determine  their optimum positions and associated line (sheet) runs, angles and deck fairlead exits. When satisfied that I had a layout that would work well in practice, card deck templates – Poop, Main and Quarterdeck – were laid in their respective locations  to ensure that the  servos,  batteries etc., would be easily accessible through the deck  openings The relevant locations and measurements were recorded for eventual transfer to the building board.

Some readers may consider this rigmarole unnecessary but I enjoyed this phase of the project and, in any event, it was better than watching ‘Deadenders’ and all the other TV rubbish that spouses seem to thrive on. The biggest bonus however, which co-incidentally earned me Brownie points (to be used at some future time when relegated to the matrimonial Sin Bin >>:-(), was that I kept my  promise to SWMBO to give modelling a rest – messing about with bits of wood and string ain’t exactly modelling, is it! ;)

To be continued…………………………..
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Popeye

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Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2012, 01:06:30 PM »

Post 3

PREPARATORY WORK (continued)
Servos locations (continued)
The ‘birdcage is decked over to ensure innards can be got at without too much scraping of knuckles.

A rough sketch of the final sail control system is shewn at Photo 6

To be continued……………………
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rmaddock

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Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2012, 04:39:09 PM »

Gosh  :o you're so organised and prepared. I wish I planned that far ahead.

Did your other half fall for this not classing as modelling?
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Popeye

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Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2012, 05:07:47 PM »

Gosh  :o you're so organised and prepared. I wish I planned that far ahead.

Did your other half fall for this not classing as modelling?

It'a part of what especially attracts me to the hobby:- research, planning, execution, problem solving finishing and finally play time :}

In truth I have few problems from SWMBO - or thinks she should - particularly when the prospect of Deadenders, Casualty, yarda yarda yarda, looms over the Ether. ;)

But if all else fails I revert to the old addage - 'Nil illegitamus despairandum carborundam' You can work this out for yourself if you're not already familiar {-)
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Popeye

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Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2012, 11:47:16 AM »

Post 4

PREPARATORY WORK (continued)
Stability and ballast. A detachable lead filled fin  offered  the best means of providing stability under sail whilst  bringing the high displacement hull down to its plan waterline. Additionally, the ability to remove the fin would enable the hulls’ weight to be light enough to facilitate ease of handling and transportation

To be continued…………..
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Popeye

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Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2012, 05:42:40 PM »

Post 5.

PREPARATORY WORK (continued)
Fin location The location of the fin was ascertained by aligning the perpendiculars of the  hull’s  underwater area Centre of Lateral Resistance (CLR) with that of the fin. The CLR’s perpendicular lay approximately ½” aft of the sail plan’s Centre of Effort (CoE), which satisfied me that the model was unlikely to suffer excessively from either Weather or Lee helm. 

Three pair of holes would be provided in the keel to accommodate the fin, one pair at its CLR position  with another pair each side  of the former, to cater for the repositioning should  the model be found ,in practice,  to suffer from excessive Weather or Lee helm.


To be continued…………………….
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Popeye

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Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2012, 10:26:14 AM »

Post 6

PREPARATORY WORK (continued)
Auxiliary propulsion. The major limitation of yachts and other sailing craft- in addition to having to cope with fickleness of wind conditions -  is their uncanny attraction to overhanging trees, reed-beds or other sundry boat traps, sometimes irrespective of  the helmsmans best efforts to the contrary.

A small electric motor was installed in my most recent model, a Grand Banks schooner, and the ability to use power  as a last resort  to get out of trouble proved so useful that I decided to motorise the brig,  despite the fact that a propeller would detract from the models’ scale appearance – though only below the waterline where it would not normally be visible.. Furthermore, because a motor was required for emergency steerage use only I saw no benefit from having either a reversing function or proportional speed control, and therefor limited it to ‘Ahead’ mode only, activated via a latched switcher in preference to an ESC.

To be continued…………….
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Popeye

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Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2012, 04:18:14 PM »

Post  7

HULL.
The following materials were used for the hull’s  ‘plank on frame’ construction: frames - hard balsa,  keel/sternpost/stempost  - Tulip wood,  planking – Cedar, sub-deck –birch ply, planking - lime.

Aliphatic resin (Titebond Premium Wood Glue) was the principal adhesive used for the hull’s fabrication, although cyano and Araldite were also used in moderation.

The prospect of cutting 24 frames from a large sheet of ply was too daunting for my liking so I fabricated them from two laminations of 6.5mm hard balsa. Frame sections were photo copied from the Plan to the required scale, then cut and pasted to slightly oversized ‘U’ shaped balsa  blanks which were trimmed to size. Notches were cut to accommodate the keel, inwhales and servo support battens before the frames, inclusive of ‘shadows’ were mounted, inverted, on the building board .

To be continued......
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dave301bounty

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Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2012, 07:28:26 PM »

What a grand looking vessel and the way you are building her .I am very interested ,will watch your build ,thanks for showing .
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Brooks22

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Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2012, 12:45:48 AM »

She came out beautiful, Popeye. Wonderful to see her on the water. Well Done!

I'm interested in that you could align the static CLR and static CE and get a balanced boat. Neat, old-style way of determining the CE location for the complicated sail plan.

I'd have said that you'd have to  calculate the dynamic values, and align them. The dynamic CLR values would be at the 1/4 chord point: for the hull and fin you'd find them  halfway between the statics and the leading edge (bow of hull, and leading edge of the fin). The dynamic CE values would also be found forward of the statics at the 1/4 chord  point. Finding them would be more involved since each set of sails would need a separate adjustment, then the whole would be summed, weighted by sail area. I don't know how you could simply use the static CE that you found to then find the dynamic.

At any rate, your method worked, and that's all that really counts :-).
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Popeye

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Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2012, 05:46:09 PM »

She came out beautiful, Popeye. Wonderful to see her on the water. Well Done!

I'm interested in that you could align the static CLR and static CE and get a balanced boat. Neat, old-style way of determining the CE location for the complicated sail plan.

At any rate, your method worked, and that's all that really counts :-).

Ahoy Brooks,

Many thanks for your comments.

To date, the brig's only been sailed once in a light breeze (too cold, wet and miserable to warrant more trips to the lake until Spring )  so only time will tell how well she will perform in a 'blow'. Initial results could  have been pure luck, though I'm satisfied with the efficacy of the method which was also used very successfully on my Grand Banks schooner 'Maine Chance' (see earlier MBM  thread). She sails beautifully 'hands off', so it'll also be adopted in respect of my next project - a 1:24 scale staysail Thames Barge
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JerryTodd

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Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2012, 07:18:51 PM »

So you've got a Thames Theme going here then?

Popeye

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Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2012, 08:22:55 PM »

So you've got a Thames Theme going here then?

The secret's out though it's a little less obvious than would first appear coz:- (a) I now name all my models after the UK river on which the original subject was built eg., .the brig was based on a Thames built vessel and (b) I'm a Londoner born within the sound of Bow Bells and am particularly fond of Thames barges (which were built on numerous UK East Coast rivers), one of which I used to help sail as former member of the Thames Barge Trust.

I have one dilemma which as yet remains unresolved - what do I do if, in the future,  I decide to build another  model based on a vessel that was also constructed on the same river? Methinks the obvious solution is to choose another river! {-)
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triumphjon

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Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2012, 07:36:34 AM »

start naming after towns / suburbs of the city along the thames ? my own big sailer 1/12th scale is based on an essex oyster smack from around 1920 , which is gaff rigged . thatsa very nice model you have there ! jon
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Popeye

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Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2012, 11:07:21 AM »

Post 8.

HULL (continued)
The hull was planked with  3/8th x 1/8th  cedar to bulwark capping height.

The first two frame spaces at both bow and stern were  filled with pre-shaped block balsa in order to provide better adhesion at these high stress areas where planks are subject to the most extreme curves.

Pairs of planks were softened in an ammonia* bath, quickly rinsed then pinned in position - one each side to reduce the risk of warping the hull - until dry, after which they were removed, trimmed to exact fit then glued in position.  An abundance of small ‘G’ clamps, pegs, rubber bands plus a willingness to resort to the occasional use of basic Anglo-Saxon, are essential prerequisites for this task.

Ammonia has a tendency to discolour and/or darken wood, so don’t  use it if a natural finish is required

On completion of planking the hull was rubbed down then  sheathed in fine grade GRP tissue followed by several more coats of GRP resin before being removed from the building board.

* Safety note. Ammonia should be used with extreme caution. Always use in the open air, wear safety goggles and rubber gloves and wash hands thoroughly after use.

To be continued…………………….
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Popeye

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Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2012, 11:17:38 AM »

Post 8.

HULL (continued)

Pairs of planks were softened in an ammonia bath,

Post 8 (continued)

Photo 16 came out fuzzy so I'll try again. :-))
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Popeye

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Re: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger.
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2012, 12:56:57 PM »

Post 9

HULL (continued)
Fitting out of the deck fairlead doublers, motor bed, mast steps, rudder tube, stern tube and cambered deck beams followed, after which frame ‘shadows’ were removed down to the inwale step thereby exposing the full length planked bulwarks. The sacrificial balsa frames were removed before the hulls'[ interior was given several coats of GRP resin to further strengthen the hull internally and to ensure that it was fully waterproof.

The ply sub-deck and hatch lids were glued in position

To be continued………
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