Topic: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger. (Read 3157 times)

Jimmy James · « **Reply #35 on:** May 08, 2012, 10:14:49 AM »

Very nice little vessel (I won't say ship as ships have 3 or more masts and are square rigged on all) She will make a smashing Prize for the Black Fleet
So clean and pristine
Black Jim

Popeye · « **Reply #36 on:** May 08, 2012, 01:41:58 PM »

Quote from: Jimmy James on May 08, 2012, 10:14:49 AM

Very nice little vessel (I won't say ship as ships have 3 or more masts and are square rigged on all) She will make a smashing Prize for the Black Fleet
So clean and pristine
Black Jim

Hope Freebooter's got sufficient spare hands to form a Prize crew coz you'll need 'em when I enter your home waters in the near future (when it's warmer!)

Popeye · « **Reply #37 on:** May 08, 2012, 01:50:21 PM »

Post 17.

HEAD TIMBERS.
The head timbers and anchor cranes were laminated separately then joined together after I was satisfied that they fitted snugly on both bow and poopdeck.

To be continued.............

Popeye · « **Reply #38 on:** May 08, 2012, 02:09:15 PM »

Post 18.

HEAD TIMBERS (continued).

To be continued……….

Popeye · « **Reply #39 on:** May 09, 2012, 03:42:19 PM »

Post 19.

DECK.
A 3mm ply sub-deck was overlaid with lime stripwood (5mm x 1.5mm) which was then covered with GRP wing tissue. Care was taken to ensure that the planking on the removable hatches was accurately aligned with adjacent deck planks to ensure that hatch openings were well camouflaged. Caulking was simulated by running a permanent black marker along the plank edges (plank ends were first sealed with clear dope to prevent the black stain ‘creeping’ along the grain).

To be continued………….

Popeye · « **Reply #40 on:** May 14, 2012, 02:45:35 PM »

Post 20.

MASTS & SPARS.
Pine dowel of various diameters was used for all masts and spars. Main and fore masts were stepped in the keel and are removable should the need arise. Topgallant and topmasts can be lowered to enable the models overall height to be reduced for easier transportation.

T’gallant and topsail yards can be lowered for reefing and the spritsail can also be easily removed should the need arise..

The jiboom and bowsprit are retractable to provide some ‘give’ in the event of a front end impact.

To be continued…………..

JerryTodd · « **Reply #41 on:** May 14, 2012, 04:09:25 PM »

I just wish the images were larger - they're at the point where squinting isn't helping.

Have you considered putting together a proper article for a modeling-zine like Seaways or Model Boat (they'll want larger images too). :)

Popeye · « **Reply #42 on:** May 14, 2012, 04:16:43 PM »

Post 21

RIGGING. Rigging was simplified as much as possible in line with the KISS principle (Keep It Simple Stupid), ‘though there was still far too much to contend with for my liking. The abundance of running rigging, essential if the sails are to controlled effectively is, unfortunately, the price to pay if one wants to build a working square rigger.

Standing rigging comprised various sizes of ‘Cardoc’ laid cotton bricklayer’s line which was stained black with diluted Indian Ink after first being boiled then hung to dry under slight tension. A total of 98 deadeyes of differing diameters were used for the standing rigging whilst a mind and finger numbing 896 bowlines were tied on the ratlines.

To be continued……….

Popeye · « **Reply #43 on:** May 14, 2012, 05:24:43 PM »

Quote from: JerryTodd on May 14, 2012, 04:09:25 PM

I just wish the images were larger - they're at the point where squinting isn't helping.

Photo attachments

Hi Jerry,
Many thanks for your comments.

Apologies for the diminutive size of most of my photos, the originalsl of which have been downsized to comply with the maximum 161Kb per post for attachments 'though I've seen much larger photos on some threads - which I'm sure must exceed the 161Kb maximum. I haven't a clue how to achieve a similar result therefor if there is a method which is acceptable to MBM I'd welcome guidance on how to do it.

I'm a luddite when it comes to all things 'computer' as a result of which any guidance offered would need to be in Idiot Speak

. If it helps, I'm running MS '7' and have recently downloaded 'Drop Box' though I haven't yet tried to use it

Regards to all Browsers.

JerryTodd · « **Reply #44 on:** May 14, 2012, 05:36:45 PM »

Typically you click "Add image to post" above the box you type the message in. This should bring up a "pop-up" box for Postimage.org where you select "Many Images," browse to select the images you want, a couple of times if they're in different folders; mark them as "family safe" unless the figurehead is a bit risque. The message gets a thumbnail that can be clicked on to open the full sized image, like so....

Olivia Wilde plays Thirteen on House

daveh · « **Reply #45 on:** May 14, 2012, 07:05:50 PM »

stunning detail popeye

Popeye · « **Reply #46 on:** May 14, 2012, 09:57:25 PM »

Post 23.

RIGGING (continued)
Running rigging comprised 0.7mm and 1.0mm braided Dacron which was stained with Ronseal Medium Oak wood stain. Scores of bowsies were needed to facilitate the adjustment of a multitude of halyards, braces, lifts, sheets, pendants etc..

To be continued……………..

Popeye · « **Reply #47 on:** May 14, 2012, 10:16:00 PM »

Quote from: JerryTodd on May 14, 2012, 05:36:45 PM

Typically you click "Add image to post" above the box you type the message in. This should bring up a "pop-up" box for Postimage.org

Ahoy Jerry,
Eureka -it worked .

Hopefully pics remaining to be attached will be much clearer thanks to your guidance

Many thanks & regards,

Popeye

PS. If anyone wants a clearer version of what's already been submitted let me have the pic number and I'll oblige pronto

Popeye · « **Reply #48 on:** May 15, 2012, 02:28:29 PM »

Post 23/24.

SAILS.
Sails were made from lightweight 100% cotton gabardine which was repeatedly boiled , then exposed to the elements for several days before being boiled again in very weak tea (Yorkshire variety – the best there is) until the desired shade of canvas was achieved.

All sails were boltroped. and can be reefed or furled should conditions so warrant.

To be continued……………

Click image to enlarge.

Netleyned · « **Reply #49 on:** May 15, 2012, 02:36:06 PM »

Clicking on the images just gets me the Postimage upload page. BTW the test image worked ok

Ned

Popeye · « **Reply #50 on:** May 15, 2012, 02:38:53 PM »

Quote from: Popeye on May 15, 2012, 02:28:29 PM

Post 23/24.

SAILS.

Post 23/24 repeat.

Methinks I made a boo-boo with the previous posts' photos so I'll try again. Sorry about that.

Click images to enlarge.

Netleyned · « **Reply #51 on:** May 15, 2012, 02:47:28 PM »

That's Great Popeye.
You can really see how much work has gone into the rigging.
And thats the KISS version

I wish I had the patience to do that sort of detail.

Ned

JerryTodd · « **Reply #52 on:** May 15, 2012, 02:50:00 PM »

Great photos Popeye - now I can see 'em! :)

She's so neat and clean - sharp as a tack.

Did you do anything in particular about the foot of the fore-corse? Some folks put wire or plastic rod in the bottom hem to act as a Bentick yard so the sail will set better when sailing on the wind without curing back on itself.

Popeye · « **Reply #53 on:** May 15, 2012, 05:32:44 PM »

Quote from: JerryTodd on May 15, 2012, 02:50:00 PM

Did you do anything in particular about the foot of the fore-corse? Some folks put wire or plastic rod in the bottom hem to act as a Bentick yard so the sail will set better when sailing on the wind without curing back on itself.

Negative, though I have this in mind as a retro-fit should extended sea trials so warrant..

Popeye · « **Reply #54 on:** May 16, 2012, 10:03:08 AM »

Post 25.

PAINTWORK.
All woodwork - with the exception of the decks – was first sprayed with Halfords acrylic primer followed by top coating with good ol’ Halfords acrylic car sprays. The natural state of these finishes was too glossy for my liking as a result of which everything, including the resin sealed deck, was over-sprayed with Humbrol Matt Acrylic varnish which gave the final result a far more realistic look in keeping with the models’ scale and purpose in life:-

Masts, Bowsprit, Jiboom – Vauxhall Gazelle Beige
Spars, Tops, Gunwale rails, Hatches – Black
Bulkheads and inner bulwarks – Peugot Cherry
Transom – Ford Blue
Above waterline - Black and Primer Filler Yellow Ochre
Below waterline - Polar White

To be continued………….

Popeye · « **Reply #55 on:** May 16, 2012, 10:12:20 AM »

Post 26.

BALLAST.
The completed model including sails, servos, motor, batteries etc., weighed 10lbs. and test tank trials determined that a further 17lbs. ballast would be required to bring it down to within 1/8”’ of its’ waterline. The bolt – on fin (Post 4) weighed in at 13lbs when filled with No. 6 Buckshot and the remaining 3lbs. was accounted for by moulding sixteen (16) x 4oz. lead billets which were placed in the hulls’ bottom between what remained of the balsa frames. A small wire loop was set into the top of each billet to facilitate positioning /retrieval.

To be continued………

Popeye · « **Reply #56 on:** May 17, 2012, 09:30:21 AM »

POST 27.

CREW.
The resin moulded crew were pressed into service from a local toy shop. Weapons and sundry accoutrements were confiscated, and some limbs repositioned, before the motley crew were kitted out (repainted) by the Bosun. Bilgerats can be beached at will if in danger of entanglement in the running rigging!

To be continued………

Popeye · « **Reply #57 on:** May 17, 2012, 04:18:29 PM »

Post 28.

TECHNICAL STUFF.
Auxiliary propulsion:
Motor: 545 type low drain activated via latched Switcher
Propeller: 45mm, four bladed brass. Direct drive via 4mm prop shaft incorporating oiling tube

Electrics & Radio
Radio: Futaba 2.4gHz six channel radio configured as follows:-
Left stick vertical axis - Forecourses
Right stick vertical axis = Maincourses
Right stick horizontal axis – Rudder
Right Auxiliary switch (Flaps) – Motor (ahead only)
Left auxiliary (Undercarriage) switch - Jib, Staysail and Driver (Mainsail)

Batteries:
Rx and servos – 3700mAh Mnh
Motor – 3700mAh Mn

To be continued............

Popeye · « **Reply #58 on:** May 18, 2012, 12:42:21 PM »

Post 29.

ANATOMY OF A MODELLING PROJECT.
My previous sailing models have been conventionally rigged vintage sailing craft though I’ve always been attracted to the beauty of square riggers and the nostalgia they evoke.. However, having no previous experience of square riggers I boned up on the subject by referring to model magazines, MBM and RC Groups (USA) forums and numerous books - including the following principal publications - before committing myself to the building board:-.
Rigging Period Ship Models………….Lennarth Petersson………….ISBN 978.1.86176.061.6
Planking Techniques for Model Ship Builders…Donald Dressel…… ISBN 978.0.8306.2868.1
Building a Working Model Warship (HMS Warrior 1860)…..William Mowll…. ISBN 1.86176.041.8
Scale Model Sailing Ships……John Bowen (Ed)………ISBN 0.85177.111.4

Rigging Period Ship Models in particular, with more than 200 detailed and crystal clear diagrams relating to all aspects of rigging, was an indispensable source of information and is a must for anyone tempted to scratch build a working square rigger.

I was prompted to build Thames in particular, as a result of reading a short article about HMS Supply, published in Model Shipwright (No.95 March 1996). A beautifully drawn plan accompanied the article and formed the basis for the construction of my model.

What subsequently transpired is, to coin a phrase, history.

END.

Jimmy James · « **Reply #59 on:** May 22, 2012, 10:47:56 AM »

Wire, plastic and Benedict yards to my eye look awful ,they distort the sail and make t look unnatural look at any photos of replica ships running and you will find the forecourse bellows out from the yard And lifts the bow this is the only sail that has so much lift but with wire,plastic ,or a Benedict it takes up the wrong shape and acts as a depressing sail which in a decent breeze can bury the bow and in extream cases can cause the ship to gripe (Lift the rudder out of the water) and broach too or capsize
Jimmy James
Master Mariner

Brooks22 · « **Reply #60 on:** May 23, 2012, 01:46:37 PM »

Jimmy, it's possible to get the billow and lift with Bentink booms. It depends on how the fore course is attached to the Bentinck boom, and how the boom is attached to the mast. If either attachment is too snug, then the sail is flattened. My booms, for example, are loosely attached to the mast with a rubberband. This allows billowing and lifting. I've never had a bow bury, and I've sailed my Pamir in winds from zephrs to scale gales

.

Boyle, 1930's deepwater sailor and squarerig modeler, was of the opinion that duplicating real practice was silly if the modeler could improve the aerodynamics (he did not call it aerodynamics, of course). He liked flat sails and Bentinck booms because they increased the ability to work to windward. I like the same.

Boyle took pride in the prizes his squareriggers won when competing against model sloops. In those pre-RC days, the ability of a skipper to trim his vessel to follow a set course was important (points were awarded for making a specific landfall, along with points for speed). The sloops he competed against were faster than his squareriggers, but sailed a more erratic course.

But each modeler is able to choose which part of the hobby is most important to himself, of course.

JerryTodd · « **Reply #61 on:** May 23, 2012, 02:55:04 PM »

Looking at Thames, I don't get the impression that Popeye is following Boyle's philosophy.

A model's ability to work to windward is paramount. We don't sail them on trade-winds for days and weeks at a time, or even hours - we dart around the pond like squirrels at play, holding a course for minutes at most, and most of the time, our model is clawing it's way up wind before it finds itself in the fescue at the lee end of the pond.

A narrow thin strip of styrene, or trimmer string, inside the foot of loose footed squares, stiffens them enough so they don't try to roll their clews in yet is flexible enough for the sails to "belly", they're a bit like those plastic strips in the collar points of better shirts. Functional tacks should be employed, even if they're just elastic pulling against the controlled sheets. You could just keep the courses furled and avoid the entire issue.

Jimmy James · « **Reply #62 on:** May 24, 2012, 05:31:29 PM »

The match of HBMS THAMES and the PRIVETEER FREE BOOTER was a foregone conclusion despite THAMES much vaulted crew, this Lubberly lot were so out gunned & out sailed by the vastly more experanced FREE BOOTER that she took pity on them, Gave them some lessions in sailing helped re-rigg this pretty little vessel (Scrapped the Benedict Yards) she sailed much better ) Kicked her in the back side and told her to come back next year when she had some sea time and with some real seaman on board
JIMMY JAMES MASTER
of FREE BOOTER

Jimmy James · « **Reply #63 on:** May 25, 2012, 08:13:47 AM »

Trying Again to post photos

PLEASE NOTE THE LOVELY SHAPE OF THE FORE COURSE WITH BENIDECT REMOVED

Jimmy James · « **Reply #64 on:** May 25, 2012, 08:27:03 AM »

To Rear Admiral PopEye( Admral of the Yellow) Nice Vessel Lubbery Crew looking forward to a rematch
when your crew get more sea time
Jimmy De Freebooter

Free Booter waiting on station...

Jimmy James · « **Reply #65 on:** June 09, 2012, 04:00:11 PM »

Freebooter Darting in for de kill

Jimmy

JerryTodd · « **Reply #66 on:** June 09, 2012, 04:16:16 PM »

From the looks of it, I'd say it kills using the combined smell of fish and feet.

Jimmy James · « **Reply #67 on:** June 10, 2012, 11:31:07 PM »

Jerry
If you've been on a small sailing ship with a large crew in heavy W/x I cannot Dineay it gets a bit whiffey down below, but as for her Fighting & Sailing ability I'd say that would be down to the training and sea time (14 years) that this crew and Her Master (55 years) has and the 5 long nines & 8 X 12 pounder cannonades that have more often than not have added their weight to the argument ...But ..if you would like to try your luck I'll more than likely be at Wicksteed again this year .... If your delicate nose can stand the smell of a real fighting ship.
Jimmy

JerryTodd · « **Reply #68 on:** June 11, 2012, 05:03:38 AM »

Oh Jimmy, I so wish I could fly over the pond and take you up on that challenge. If my lottery pension plan pays off, I promise publicly, here and now, that will be at the very top of my list.

Jimmy James · « **Reply #69 on:** June 11, 2012, 09:23:58 AM »

Jerry
Enough said, My Crew my Ship and and myself are at your command,,,, but don't leave it too long as I am well past my allotted 3 score and ten
Jimmy

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Author Topic: HMS Thames - an 18th Century two masted square rigger. (Read 3157 times)