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[me3]

Hi all,

I have been on the lookout for a reliable RTR petrol model boat but I know very little about the manufacturers so I need a little help finding one. I have a budget of around £400-£600. I have found a Joysways Silverline but I am not sure if it has a proper make of engine in it.

Many thanks, Reece

[Bill D203]

Most RTR Petrol boats are not good. OK so they run and they start up, but they handle badly and one of two things will happen. 1 you will ram it up a bank and damage it, 2 you will lose interest in it because it will not run right.

No I have run Petrol boats for a few years and raced them. I used Zenoha engines because you can get the spares to rebuild the thing if you need to and you can get the spares. A stock Zen can be tuned to make it go faster

Get in contact with Scoop at the BMPRS as he may know where there is a good second hand race boat up for grabs, and may not cost as much as a RTR jobby.
I hope this is of some help?? PS leave the Bat boats in the shop as the handle like a pig on the water, unless you fancy swimming !

[w3bby]

Agree with Bill, most, if not all... RTRs have failed to fulfill expectations. Forums around the world are full of tales of disappointment from unfortunates that have bought them. Thin hulls, useless engines, hardware that doesn't hold up and bad spares availability. Do yourself a favour and build your own or look for a good used hull.
Check out sales on OMRA or BMPRS, 2 UK racing organisations.
Prestwich Model Boats and Ian's Boats sometimes have used gear for sale.
Also worth checking out some other forums from Europe, shipping isn't too prohibitive within Europe, Xtreme RC in Holland comes to mind.

[me3]

OK then thank you very much for your help, I much appreciate it as I have saved myself a lot of money!

Reece

[martno1fan]

We will be coming out with RTR Apaches very soon both electric and gas these will be top notch quallity using reliable engines ,motors etc,no way will you get a good RTR boat for £600 new,you would be looking at over £1000 -£1500 and up for something of good quallity.Yes you can buy cheap but you will then buy twice most of us have learned that over the years.
If you want something of good quallity then it will cost a little more but at least you know you wont be buying twice.If you want to save a little and enjoy building why not buy a bare hull and build it up yourself,you will learn a lot along the way  ,but even then your looking at arround £900-£1000 by the time your finnished.
Mart

[me3]

Thanks Mart I shall keep my eyes open for your RTR Apaches. Thanks for your help.

Reece

[essex2visuvesi]

I have to admit Im tepted regularly by this one
http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/graupner-hydropower.html

[mermod]

Back when I had my shop I tried a few differnt brands and yes, some brands were very basic, I found the vantex and dragon brands to have thin hulls and very basic r/c, but drop in a couple of decent servos and a good receiver pack and check and tighten everything, and they would run ok.
I found the best out of the box boat was the navicraft brand, still have an outrage in the shed, very nice boat indeed, not sure what brands are available to you guys in the UK.

[Bill D203]

I have to admit Im tepted regularly by this one
http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/graupner-hydropower.html

Nice!! However you have to fit a new Ex pipe on it as it will be to loud. 80 dB at 10 meters is the limit set by OMRA & the BPMRS and it at Stevenage MBC. So the 1st thing you will need to do is spend out for a pipe that brings down the noise. 

[scoop]

Bill mate it's BMPRS.......as in www.bmprs.co.uk 
Cheers
Scoop

[martno1fan]

I have to admit Im tepted regularly by this one
http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/graupner-hydropower.html

Just been honest but its just another poorly built boat with a bright paintjob to catch the beginers eye ,with no propper motor or pipe and they run like pigs save your money.About time people realised you get what you pay for,lets face it the hardware and motor on these boats wont last five minutes.
Mart

[Bill D203]

Bill mate it's BMPRS.......as in www.bmprs.co.uk 
Cheers
Scoop

OK  It's hot here! And Im on early starts all this week.
 Long time no talk ! whats going on then?

[black magic racing]

check ebay out theres a couple of hulls on now,maybe worth a look at?  kurt 

[mermod]

Gosh martno1fan, if a boat like this would only last you five minutes i'm not sure you should be advising people on a forum, I have customers/ friends that have had their vantex, dragon and navicraft boats for over six years and with a bit of maintenance they all still run togrther regularly, they are not after huge speeds, just a bit of fun.

[martno1fan]

Gosh martno1fan, if a boat like this would only last you five minutes i'm not sure you should be advising people on a forum, I have customers/ friends that have had their vantex, dragon and navicraft boats for over six years and with a bit of maintenance they all still run togrther regularly, they are not after huge speeds, just a bit of fun.

Like i said you get what you pay for.I wouldnt call a bit of fun spending £600-£800 on something that fails within days of buying it, no that to me is not fun its frustrating and annoying to say the least.If your happy offering these types of boats to people thats your choice

[mermod]

And like I said, I still have many friends running these boats after many years with nothing more than a bit of wear and tear, oh except for one guy that jumped up and down because it wouldnt turn, I simply pointed out that the assembly instructions required the rudder to be screwed on not just left in the box with the other bits

[martno1fan]

Yes and like i said you get what you pay for  .
Its a no brainer for anyone who knows boats,add up the cost of quallity running gear a propper reliable marine engine and a quallity hull and your allready well over £700 but at least you know then you will have a boat capable of running with the best not something unreliable.Why pay upwards of £700 for something with inferior parts it doesnt make sense to me whatsoever.Quallity and reliability costs but id rather sleep at night knowing i gave someone good sound advice based on experience first hand which is what ive given as have others before me.
Mart
heres a quick list ive probably missed a few odds and sods but give people an idea of the costs of good parts.
Hull£150-£250
Zenoah £240
Mounts£18 basic
Stinger £35
flex and shaft£45
tuned pipe£56
header £15
cooling flange £12-15
flex collet£10
pipe bracket £15
pipe saver£5
Prop£30
drive dog£1.50-2
Ruddder£30-35
water tubing £5
water outlets£5
radio box£15
bellows£2
pushrods conectors etc£10
fuel tank £8-10 basic type
tygon fuel line£4-5
trim tabs£15-25
turn fins£15

[craig dickson]

Hi Reece
My introduction to Gasoline powered boats was the purchase of a RTR boat costing about £550 about 4 years ago. The boat looked fantastic and this short clip showed it on its first run.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQSbNlFblpA

The upside of the purchase was that it got me into gas boats and made it very easy to see how things all worked with the boat being pre-fitted out.

However I learnt within about 5 minutes of its first run of its shortcomings. That resulted in me spending a lot of time and money replacing components that while looking neat and nice were in fact cheap and nasty. That included the radio gear, the exhaust manifold, the radio box (needed heavily modifying for water tightness) and various other components. The engine (a copy of a Zen260PUM) has proved very reliable and easy starting despite a pull start mechanism that is weaker than a puka Zenoah. If that breaks I doubt that I will be able to get spare parts for it.

That experience soon led me to start building my next boat from scratch having bought a  47”Lynx hull. This time it was fitted out with decent hardware and built with precision having reinforced the hull for extra durability. I spent over a thousand pounds all in. However in my opinion it proved much better value for money. I ended up with a boat much faster, better handling and bullet proof reliability. And critically if I do need replacement spare parts I can obtain them easily.
This photo shows my Lynx in action:



That is only my opinion from personal experience. I will in future always build from scratch. I am totally with Martno on this.
Cheers
Craig
 

[scoop]

I couldn't agree more with Mart and Craig  the best way to go for quality and reliability is scratch building if you intend to race, see my BMPRS News columns in Model Boats mag for June/July/August 2012 for details.
However if you are on a budget then a RTR boat would be ideal but you must realise that they are much slower, in some cases a bit awkward to start the engines, and you will soon get fed up with having to repair or upgrade them. 
Learn from Craig.....like he said he got the bug from an RTR boat but it cost him in the long run........will soon be time to rub paint again at the next race in September Craig  Looking forward to it  .......anyone out there looking at an RTR why not pop along to one of our races (www.bmprs.co.uk) to see the scratch built race boats in action first, you will be made most welcome 

Regards
Scoop

[scoop]

OK  It's hot here! And Im on early starts all this week.
 Long time no talk ! whats going on then?

It's hot here too Bill.......well it's a bit quiet as we are in our Summer recess awaiting the restart at Leicester on September 2nd  ....................and here's hoping the dreaded green stuff doesn't show up as bad as it did last year.......mind you a lot of the lakes are full again so the weed might not grow as aggressively this time round. 

Hope all goes well for you on Sunday at Stevenage Lifeboat day (good weather and all that). I'm working so shall miss out 

Cheers
Scoop

[Bill D203]

It's hot here too Bill.......well it's a bit quiet as we are in our Summer recess awaiting the restart at Leicester on September 2nd  ....................and here's hoping the dreaded green stuff doesn't show up as bad as it did last year.......mind you a lot of the lakes are full again so the weed might not grow as aggressively this time round. 

Hope all goes well for you on Sunday at Stevenage Lifeboat day (good weather and all that). I'm working so shall miss out 

Cheers
Scoop

Hi Scoop
I had 32 deg on the way out of East London today. Makes working hard going.
Still it is going to cool down for the weekend. just right for me.

[black magic racing]

i also agree with martin,building from scratch is the way to go if you want to build a good boat,having said that i have a king of shaves cat which has had a pipe change and is a good fun boat,no race boat but the missus loves it,with me its all about power,handling and good built boats,which is something some of the RTR boats dont have,,

[mermod]

I also agree that scratch building wil no doubt give a better boat but i,m pretty sure the original question was about a good rtr so I pointed out a few good brands I've dealt with such as navicraft etc and as black magic racing points out the venom king of shaves is another good example

[martno1fan]

I stand by every thing i said 100% you get what you pay for 

[dog1966]

  )i stand by you to mart very very much so watch out if some one trys to say diferant 

[tmbc]

100% agree you get what u pay for ! rtr boats unless built by a person not mass manfactured leave a lot to be desired !

[martno1fan]

If people want to go the scratch build way there are companys in THIS COUNTRY more than willing to supply a kit ,Dave at Prestwich does it and i will do it  ,once i get a chance ill get some kits put together that include everything you need.Ill even throw in some build notes.
I do have some RTR packages in the pipeline too but these will not be  built on the cheap.
Might i also suggest  as Scoop said take a look at his build article in model boats mag which i might add is one of my hulls hes building  ,very informative and should help any new scratch builder put his boat together whoever he gets it from.
Mart

[craig dickson]

100% agree you get what u pay for ! rtr boats unless built by a person not mass manfactured leave a lot to be desired !

That is a good point. I would imagine that most of the RTR boats imported into the UK from the far east come out of mass production lines staffed by people that have probably never even run or used the finished product.

Another aspect to throw into this discussion is one not based upon money or cost:

That is of course the priceless pure self satisfaction that you get from building your own boat from scratch. That includes the fact that no one else will turn up at the lake side with a boat identical to your own. For me, that alone is a great reason to go the scratch build route.

Cheers
Craig

[martno1fan]

Most of the boats made in China are made by young kids who should probably be in school  .
Mart

[tmbc]

agree totally with craig !

the other consideration is if you build it yourself when theres any problems you know whats need and how to go about the repair !

another thought is to see if anybody is selling a used boat thats been scratch built but having the knowledge about what your looking at is essential !

That is a good point. I would imagine that most of the RTR boats imported into the UK from the far east come out of mass production lines staffed by people that have probably never even run or used the finished product.

Another aspect to throw into this discussion is one not based upon money or cost:

That is of course the priceless pure self satisfaction that you get from building your own boat from scratch. That includes the fact that no one else will turn up at the lake side with a boat identical to your own. For me, that alone is a great reason to go the scratch build route.

Cheers
Craig

[Danny]

I have read this thread with interest, and as a competitive racer of some years, agree totally with what has been advised, but would like to add another consideration.

I would not call myself a modeller, as the building of my boats is done in the least possible time so that I can get them on the water.
I know that there are many, who will take the time (and have the skill) to make a superb model which not only looks good but functions well.  I do not envy them this skill, as I enjoy the racing part much more than the building, but that's just me!

There are also a large amount of the general public who are not even aware of the different model boats and how you can use them, so we should not sneer at those who buy RTR boats and then use them as playthings - this is what they are - toys!
I know the argument that they will most likely break and the person will be put off racing boats for life, but this will happen anyway with many different types of 'impulse buy'.
 
Now, if that person has joined a local club or a racing society, they will most likely be offered help to get the thing running (perhaps more slowly than some of us are used to) to the joy and gratitude of the owner.
Perhaps from this beginning, the person will watch the faster boats with envy, and then want to 'improve' their hobby.  This is when they will see the advantages of building their own boat - after they have gained a little knowledge about what is wrong with their current pride and joy!  You could say that this will be wasted money, but very few begin a hobby with the very best equipment, be it golf, flying or whatever.  So this at least gives them an introduction to the world of racing boats.

There will always be those who "want it now", the only input being the outlay of their money!  They will often move quickly on to the next 'fad' which takes their fancy.  It happens in all hobbies.

So please be nice to those who have brought their 'toys' down to the lake.  Remember how most of us started - little knowledge but a lot of enthusiasm. All they need is a good example and a few friendly words.  Eventually they will realise that the advice is good, and maybe take heed of it.
Cheers
Danny

[vnkiwi]

While I am the opposite, and enjoy the build, You have said it very well Danny.
I whole heartedly agree.
Foster the new beginner, and just maybe they will be there in the future to carry on our hobby after we have moved onto the bigger pond in boating heaven.
vnkiwi

[essex2visuvesi]

When I first started in RC planes I had a similar problem with a few members who basicaly sneered at my quite battered second hand RTR setup saying that it was outdated and I needed to change this and change that.  My instructor said to leave it be.... It works fine for what I need right now and it did I used that plane for 2 years without changing anything.  Whereas the sneerers spent more time tinkeriung with their models than actually flying.
I did go on to build my own models but there is a place for RTR in most hobbies as not everyone has the time to spend building a model.
Hobbies are supposed to be about enjoyment and if building is not your thing then why not buy RTR.
All the planes I use now are either Plug N Fly or ARTF, tho I do still have my Fokker DR-1 I built from plans

[derekwarner_decoy]

I have never owned an RTR plane or vessel.......but I do agree there is a place for them

Let the sneerers sneer........well said....... .....

My 12 years to date  project [scratch built hull / steam driven paddle wheeler] will only be completed in retirement......... .........Derek

[me3]

Thank you all very much for your help, it is much appreciated.

Reece