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[bj]

Anyone got a REMOTE kill switch on a gasser?
I have fitted external MANUAL kill switches on my petrol boats but would like to fit an electronic switch just in case I need to kill the engine when it is out in the middle of the pond.
Found this http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__17063__Opto_Gas_Kill_Switch.html but ............
My engine electronics are a separate "magneto" system and not as such controlled from the Tx. This switch seems to be for CDI systems as in [url]http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uploads/502481409X7478X2.pdf[
Any suggestions to resolve the query would be welcome.

[ACTion]

Watch this space - we have such a beast under development. Hopefully will be available before the Blackpool show in October.
Dave @ ACTion

[gwa84the2nd]

cool would be very interested in this dave  as would menny in the race scene ime sure

[w3bby]

If I need to kill the motor in the middle of the lake then I close the throttle and kill the engine  I set idle using the throttle trim and the idle screw on the carb is thrown away.

Does your radio have a failsafe function? Should my radio lose contact on the lake then the receiver shuts the engine down, had this function on my last FM set and the present 2.4 set. Nothing to do with the electrics, the servo closes the throttle and kills the engine.

This does not work in the case of a total power loss so you could fit a black box to cover that scenario.

[ids987]

This does not work in the case of a total power loss so you could fit a black box to cover that scenario.

Definitely a good belt and braces. Most complete runaways I've seen have been caused by sudden loss of radio power at the Rx end. Fatigued wiring on soldered connections, corroded connectors, corroded switches etc. Not to mention "radio not switched on" incidents. I would think that the black box could also be called "relay in a box". I doubt that it's anything more - except perhaps some suppression on the relay coil, but that's not to take anything away from it. K.I.S.S principles apply !!

[ACTion]

P106 will be that "relay in a box". We know what we're doing...................
DM

[ids987]

P106 will be that "relay in a box". We know what we're doing...................
DM

Hi Dave, just to clarify - in case it's needed. My "relay in a box" comment was referring to the black box unit which Webby linked. Solely because it only provides protection against power failure. Still only a guess, because I haven't seen one, and there are obviously other ways to do the same thing. I have seen one or two of your products, and certainly wasn't trying to take anything away from Action, or Action's capabilities.

Regards:
Ian

[ACTion]

No offence taken. Just my clumsy way of saying that it will also trip out the spark if the Rx becomes disconnected.
DM

[w3bby]

The "Black Box" is the simplest of those I have seen available currently and complements the modern inbuilt radio failsafes very well.
There are a number of others out there that I have heard good things about:
Isamtech, Germany
Killer RC, USA
Warehouse Hobbies, USA

Finally a comparison between a number of types: Kill switches.

[Bill D203]

I have been running a prototype Action for some years now. If you throttle servo packs up, If your power is lost due to a plug getting loss , you hit the kill switch well before the failsafe kicks in then this will do the job. I can remember my Gas Rigger on Llanberis lake a few years back stuck on 1/3th because the servo decided to pack up and stop moving. Now thats when you need a kill switch unit fitted.

I look forwards to seeing the new unit very soon Dave.

[ACTion]

I have just heard from Wombat this evening that the prototype P106 units are now ready for evaluation and review. More later.
DM

[bj]

The "Black Box" is the simplest of those I have seen available currently and complements the modern inbuilt radio failsafes very well.
There are a number of others out there that I have heard good things about:
Isamtech, Germany
Killer RC, USA
Warehouse Hobbies, USA

Finally a comparison between a number of types: Kill switches.

I did write "My engine electronics are a separate "magneto" system and not as such controlled from the Tx."
Most seem to be for CDI systems and only the Super Bee Gas Kill Switch seems to be a type to suit my application.
Roll on sucessful testing .........

[w3bby]

What motor and ignition are you using? Pictures of your set up would be useful.

......and not as such controlled from the Tx......

I am not sure what you mean, my ignition (Zenoah) is not controlled by the TX nor any I know of. Your wish to stop the motor in the middle of the lake (should you so wish) is covered by closing the throttle, closed carb = no petrol/air mix = engine stops..... You should set idle with your throttle trim on the transmitter so cutting the throttle can completely close the carb. The idle screw on the carb is thrown away. This is done by all gas boaters I know.

[Bill D203]

What motor and ignition are you using? Pictures of your set up would be useful.

I am not sure what you mean, my ignition (Zenoah) is not controlled by the TX nor any I know of. Your wish to stop the motor in the middle of the lake (should you so wish) is covered by closing the throttle, closed carb = no petrol/air mix = engine stops..... You should set idle with your throttle trim on the transmitter so cutting the throttle can completely close the carb. The idle screw on the carb is thrown away. This is done by all gas boaters I know.

Yes this is fine but what happens when your throttle servo packs up at full chat and will not move the carb to close it!!!!!!! Do you keep on driving till you run out of fuel, drive over some rag placed in the water, drive it into the bankside??????? None is a good option. A working kill switch gives you a chance the kill the ignition by means of shorting out the black wire to earth on the red coil on your engine. Every Zen & other engines i have seen has this cut out wire on the coil which would be conected to a switch on the machine ie Grass cutting stuff, chainsaw to cut the engine out.

[w3bby]

Bill no argument from me as regards using a kill switch. I guess I was thinking that he wants to do it whilst in control not in the case of a runaway. In that case a third channel kill switch on the ignition is a good solution.

[catengineman]

Forgive my ignorance in this matter but the way I have read this is you would like to have a switch to turn off (or switch to NC ie to ground) if the need requires.
So could you not use a normal RC switch with a relay and have the NC set to shut off the coil. if the Receiver looses its signal I am sure that the relay will return to NC hence stopping the motor and if you need to you can switch your transmitter channel to KILL the motor if required
Or have I got the wrong end of this thread....

[Bill D203]

Forgive my ignorance in this matter but the way I have read this is you would like to have a switch to turn off (or switch to NC ie to ground) if the need requires.
So could you not use a normal RC switch with a relay and have the NC set to shut off the coil. if the Receiver looses its signal I am sure that the relay will return to NC hence stopping the motor and if you need to you can switch your transmitter channel to KILL the motor if required
Or have I got the wrong end of this thread....

Yes you are right. However the new unit covers alot more. If failsafe setting is reached the unit will cut the engine. If you lose power for what ever resson it will cut the engine and you can you the switch on a spare channel to cut the engine. Trust me having a unit like this in a race petrol boat /race boat can only bring you a bit of added safety. I have used a Action prototype one for the last 2 years and it has proved its worth several times. One day i hope the BMPRS & others will not let petrol boats on the water without one of these units or something like it fitted,  52" of pertol boat out of control is not funny.

[scoop]

Yes you are right. However the new unit covers alot more. If failsafe setting is reached the unit will cut the engine. If you lose power for what ever resson it will cut the engine and you can you the switch on a spare channel to cut the engine. Trust me having a unit like this in a race petrol boat /race boat can only bring you a bit of added safety. I have used a Action prototype one for the last 2 years and it has proved its worth several times. One day i hope the BMPRS & others will not let petrol boats on the water without one of these units or something like it fitted,  52" of pertol boat out of control is not funny.

What about runaway Nitro boats ?  Don't just concentrate on Petrol, what about runaway Electric boats as well ! A runaway 80mph fast electric missile isn't funny either 

Anyway I'm sure it's been said before but if a failsafe (whether it be a separate unit or one in the TX/Rx) is set up correctly it should shut down the throttle to tickover or completely stop the engine and also throw the rudder to either port or starboard. We need to look at the reasons for a boat going into failsafe mode or indeed runaway mode in the first place: 
Poor set up
Poor maintenance: inc. low battery/forgot to charge them/corroded connections (made worse if running in sea water), incompatible crystals in the Tx/Rx (40/27mhz), forgetting to extend the Tx aerial, blimey the list goes on......human error
Forgetting to switch the Rx on....human error   
As a matter of course when racing at BMPRS meetings OOD's normally check boats for failsafe operation and indeed will not let a boat race if any glitching,failsafe not operating or other failure is noticed 
I'm sure we will in the course of time evaluate new products as they come onto the market to see if they can improve our already high standard of safety 

Regards
Scoop

[w3bby]

What about runaway Nitro boats ?

Not a problem, Killswitch Nitro. Electric not a clue

I have seen that many with twin hydros in the USA run 2 receivers and 2 battery packs.

[scoop]

Forgetting to switch the Rx on....human error     
There you go....human error, I of course meant to say Tx and or Rx 

Scoop 

[catengineman]

So as a KISS idea then a RC switch with a relay that requires signal to hold open the relay contacts would work, if the signal is not there then the NC circuit leaves the ignition system to ground = no go. if the power to the system fails then the relay returns to NC = no go
You would need to activate the RC switch to get an open circuit in order to start your motor and in order to activate that switch you need to have the Tx and RX systems turned on. turn either OFF and the relay will close and so motor stops

R

[Bill D203]

So as a KISS idea then a RC switch with a relay that requires signal to hold open the relay contacts would work, if the signal is not there then the NC circuit leaves the ignition system to ground = no go. if the power to the system fails then the relay returns to NC = no go
You would need to activate the RC switch to get an open circuit in order to start your motor and in order to activate that switch you need to have the Tx and RX systems turned on. turn either OFF and the relay will close and so motor stops

R

Correct

[ACTion]

Correct

....unless your radio has a failsafe which stops all the servos at the last known good signal - apart from the throttle (which is generally set to run to a slow/stop position). The other standard failsafe situation returns all channels except throttle to a neutral position. Either of these would allow the relay switch to stay closed i.e. the spark would not be killed. We have tried to cater for all eventualities with this unit.

[phillnjack2]

if its a petrol 2 strok why not just earth the engine via a micro switch operated by servo
or use what the full size outboards use for a kill switch, simple pull off toggle to kill the engine.


phill

[Steve J]

So as a KISS idea then a RC switch with a relay that requires signal to hold open the relay contacts would work, if the signal is not there then the NC circuit leaves the ignition system to ground = no go. if the power to the system fails then the relay returns to NC = no go

North Queensland RC used to do a little unit that did exactly this, I have one on a Zenoah 26 in a model aircraft. Unfortunately they are no longer producing them.

The only alternative that I am aware of is to build your own using the RC CAM Bit-Switch circuit driving a relay (example S2 on the RC-CAM page).

Steve