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Author Topic: IRON DUKE 1914  (Read 107744 times)

dreadnought72

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #175 on: July 22, 2015, 12:28:51 AM »

Jogging planks is 'character building'.  %% But, as you say, it takes an eternity.  :((

Andy
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Geoff

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #176 on: July 23, 2015, 01:33:50 PM »

Pictures of the planking underway.
 
I'll post some more of the finished planking which due to scraping has cut back the planking to a much whiter shade which will need further staining.
 
Geoff
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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #177 on: July 23, 2015, 02:23:40 PM »


Nice planks!   :-))
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ballastanksian

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #178 on: July 23, 2015, 08:56:59 PM »

Gorgeous Geoff, and ever so neatly done:O)
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Geoff

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #179 on: July 24, 2015, 08:32:35 AM »

More pictures showing ID as she is as of yesterday. the deck showing the lighter clour due to scraping.
 
I stil have a way to go to complete her by 31 May 2016 but I think I am on target!
 
Enjoy
 
Geoff
 
 
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dreadnought72

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #180 on: July 24, 2015, 08:20:05 PM »

Looking good!  :-))

Andy
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ballastanksian

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #181 on: July 24, 2015, 08:28:31 PM »

Art with wood Geoff. I think the wor on the decking has probably advanced your progress well and has got a labourious phase out to the way allowing you time to do more interesting bits.

Your work inspires me to pull my finger out and get the destroyer finished for next year. Seeing this beauty and others of a similar era draws me to be at Mayhem next year even if I have to sleep under a pedallo:O)
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JerryTodd

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The transformative power of a wooden deck
« Reply #182 on: July 25, 2015, 09:51:48 PM »

Having recently completed the deck planking stage of 1-1/2 meter of deck on my own model, I can appreciate what's involved.
Beautiful work!

Geoff

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #183 on: September 18, 2015, 01:54:59 PM »

I'll try to get some more pictues up but the silence doesn't mean I haven't been building!
 
Deck all now stained/varnished, voice pipes on the forward superstructure. A mixture of plastic rod and copper wire (bends easily). Capstan and anchour beds and bollards now in place together with the breakwater. Main boat boom also in place with brass end pieces.
 
I'm now working on the searchlights which I am making in brass. Conservativley as they are twin I estimate 25/26 pieces for each, it's becoming something of a labour of love but I'm actually enjoying building all 8 of them!
 
I have done some research on the precise design of these twins, thanks to help on this board, but have not really found any clear pictures or designs which show the detail I'm after so I'm planning on using a little moddling license. There would actually appear to be numerous different versions of the same thing. I figure twins would have been two heavy to move by hand so there was probably a worm/quadrant drive to tilt them and another worm drive to turn them all of which I will try to model.
 
So far I have made 8 coned stands plus 8 "T" pieces and 16 brass tubes for the actual searchights. I have some very small brass bolts which I'll try to use for the worm drives. Its all a little fiddly as accross the "T" is only 2.1cm.
 
Whilst the real ones would of course have been painted grey or black I think I'll leave parts in brass to add some "bling" and interest to the model.
 
I have all the turrets connected up so they will rotate. A drum under each linked with fishing line. A and B together then Q X and Y linked. I have used a servo morph (Action Electonics who gave excellent service) attached to two small sail winches to winch the turrets round. I found the servo morph very sensitive to set up to get 180 degrees rotation with back to the center at 90 degrees but it does work albeit the second set of turrets don't seem to quite follow but this could be an optical illusion absent barrels. If needed I'll just use a second servo morph for the rear turrets.
 
I still have to have another look at the gun fire mechanism and figure out if I can get the electronic system to function. I'm still optimistic but have put that on the back burner for a while whist I chew over a number of detail problems in my head.
 
I'm going to have to reconfigure the smoke generators as its too awkward to drop the foreward deck over the inner funnels and make the electrical connections. I plan to use a tube piece of foam under each funnel so it will squash a little to make a seal between the generator and the funnel proper.
 
Thats about it for now.
 
Cheers
 
Geoff
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ballastanksian

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #184 on: September 18, 2015, 08:54:57 PM »

A friend of mine uses Dolls house electrical copper tape to make his contacts. he wired up a small LCD telly, radar screen and lots of lights etc using it so I presume it can take the wattage without creating inwanted smoke.

It sounds like she is becoming an attractive model Geoff!
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ballastanksian

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #185 on: October 05, 2015, 10:40:11 PM »

I was reading your early posts of building the hull Geoff and wondered if you could confirm a few details?

1. When manipulating the frame plans to conform to your build style, did you remove the thickness of the deck from the frames or leave them as is so the hull has a bit more depth?

I ask because the main deck piece looks structural and in my mind would need to be factored into the drawings.

2. Did you seal the inside of the planks as you went or after the hull was planked?

I am starting to mull plans over for HMS Achilles while I make more and more progress on HMS Ready.

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Geoff

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #186 on: October 06, 2015, 08:36:55 AM »

The first thing I did was to check the beam on the plans as sometimes hull lines show the inside line on the real ship such that plating and armour add to the width. On ID the plans were exact for the outside beam so I just scalled them down to 1/96 and then a little bit more to remove 1/4" from both the beam and depth.
 
As the planking was to be 1/8" thick once planked this restored the correct beam. After sanding this narrowed the beam but after plating the hull this then restored the beam to the correct dimensions.
 
The same with the deck which was 1/8" thick plus the bottom planking. The deck is indeed a structural element as in my experience it is the deck line that is key. If there is any unfairness in the hull lines it can be corrected with sanding and filler as needed but the deck defines the shape and sheer of the ship. I partially cut the deck openings from both sides but left sufficient strength in the deck for it to behave as a solid piece so no twisting or warping.
 
Building the hull up the right way provides full visual sight of the deck line. Indeed some of the frames were a little high and others a little short by something in the order of 1mm but sufficent to effect the smoothness of the deck run. The differences were packed out with thin card untill all was visually smooth and linear. I kept a carefull eye on this during building and was not able to detect any distortion. Planks were attached to alternate sides to preevent any twisting and all came out well.
 
I started planking at the waterline to define the hull shape and lock all the frames in place. Then planked up to the deck and down as far as I could go whilst still having access to unscrew the hull from the building board.
I joined two planks together with a scarph joint so I had a continuious run from bow to stern for the first two planks each side to give me the line and run of the hull shape. Subsequent planks were 3 feet long and done like laying brickwork with overlapping joints. There were some strange and very tapered shapes on the lower part of the hull of different widths to get the lines fair but no reall problems as with a 78" hull length most curves are quite gently. Most planks were 1/2" wide, cut from sheet as it doesn't matter if some planks are slightly wider or not as its just covering the hull.
 
I also added a single long plank each side at the bilge line which gave me both a good run and defined the area I needed to plank above which was a crescent shape. Some issues in getting the last very tapered plank in but nothing really difficult.
 
I also tapered a number of planks amidships as I went to ensure a smooth plank run but it wasn't critical again because of the size of the hull.
 
Not shown in the pictures is that I built 1/8" sheer into the build board as in my experience wooden hulls tend to settle a little and "hogg" so this countered this natural tendancy.
 
With only the area below the bilges to plank the hull was quite ridged and turned upside down to complete. Once sanded and painted in resin and fibreglassed on the outside and sanded smooth etc. The deck openings were then cut out to provide access to the interior. The inside was then resined and fibreglassed to make the structure whole.
 
Hope this assists
 
Cheers
 
Geoff
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Bob K

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #187 on: October 06, 2015, 09:41:50 AM »

Looking delicious Geoff  :-)) 
I particularly like the multiple curves on the deck plank edging, knowing how tricky they can be. 
Following with great interest.  As I said before my Wife's Grandfather served on Iron Duke and was at Jutland.
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ballastanksian

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #188 on: October 06, 2015, 06:37:19 PM »

Thankyou Geoff, this did indeed help a lot. I will look at wider planks for the build, though Achilles will not be as wide as ID.
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Geoff

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #189 on: October 12, 2015, 02:05:25 PM »

I had a clear weekend and spent something like 12 hours on ID and still can't see very much for my labours! To be fair some of the work was tricky and slow and inside but to summarise:
 
- Finished the twin searchlights (8 off)- took 21 pieces each to complete
 
- Installed another "Servomorph" from Action Electronics and associated wiring. I now have one for A and B turrets with a separate one for Q, X and Y.
 
- The forecastle deck (goes back to the second funnel) now has legs so I can access the wiring at the pond side to make the connections and stand it upright so I can work on the underside
 
- Strengthend the engine mounts and adjusted the size of the rubber belt drives ("O" rings) plus two spares
 
- Constructed smoke proof connectors (At least I hope so) at the base of each funnel. I need to lift the forcastle off and a completley vertical lift proved impractical. This was quite tricky to do and construct.
 
- Finalised fitting of the smoke generators
 
- Installed the speed contoller support and speed contoller
 
- Finished off the twin rudder head and fitted the rudder servo and reciever and connecting rods
 
- Made 8 bridge instruments in brass (Evershed - for rudder and engine revs and directors)
 
- Made binnacle in brass together with giro binnacle also uin vbrass plus base stand.
 
- Made 9 ft rangefinder in brass for upper bridge
 
- Painted and varnished all the brass fittings
 
 
I guess listing it all out it doesn't look to bad but ID just seems to absorbe all I do without showing any great change. I have some pictures of the twin searchlights and front of the bridge which I'll try to post shortly.
 
I probably need to think about a temporary water tank to test float her for sorting out ballast very shortly but the main item outstanding is the gunfire simulation as until I have resolved that I can't plan the interior spaces too well. I suspect I'll have to put some concrete in the lower hull as ballast as well.
 
Only 7 months to go before scheduled completion (31/05/16) - I may have to start working time and a half at this rate!
 
Cheers
 
Geoff
 
 
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ballastanksian

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #190 on: October 12, 2015, 08:32:14 PM »

For the temporary test tank, could you hire/buy some scaffolding planks to form a box, and buy a tarp that you can then put inside the box and fill with water?

Alternativey suggest that the garden really needs a nice pond and knock something up quick that you can return to later and improve?

I look forward to seeing the photos, especially of your searchlights.
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derekwarner_decoy

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #191 on: October 12, 2015, 10:17:24 PM »

A labour of love Geoff but will be worth it  :-))

Your A & B turrets, as will the X & Y turrets all have as you say have the 180 degrees pointing zone and firing zones, however the Q turret whilst having the same pointing zone would have very limited firing zones...would the latter be say +45 degrees to +180 degrees? to either port or stdb?

I have  3 x ACTion P96 servomorphs..[for different uses] and understand their speed & travel sensitivity.

So if you were training your X & Y turrets at any arc lower that ~~45 degrees the Q turret would be facing at the aft superstructure  >>:-(

Or, .....just thinking, Q turret could have train & fire arcs of +45 degrees from athwart ships on both the port& stdb side ....just like the real vessel

Just an observation..... as you say....."but the main item outstanding is the gunfire simulation"

Looking forward to seeing more images as you progress.... Derek
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Geoff

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #192 on: October 13, 2015, 01:47:37 PM »

Okay, here are a couple of pictures of the searchlights and forward superstructure (showing the voice pipes and searchlights. Sorry about the quality!
 
Some with flash others without.
 
As regards "Q" turret firing bearings I intend to only fire them at 90 degrees to the centerline so the superstructure position presents no difficulty. On a practical basis you can't see the precise bearing at any distance so if I'm off a few degrees it really doesn't notice.
 
More work this weekend!
 
Cheers
 
Geoff
 
 
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ballastanksian

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #193 on: October 13, 2015, 04:23:30 PM »

They look splendidly Naval with all the brasswork:O) The end of the boom looks exquisite as well Geoff.

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Geoff

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #194 on: October 22, 2015, 08:56:40 AM »

More progress on the gunfire system. Attached is the prototype "fire box". Essentially a smoke generator with a computer fan and gun barrel outlet.
 
I still have problems with this as the fan is not powerfull enough (currently 7 cfm) to force the smoke through the narrow barrel in the volume required and all the valves leak!
 
I tried putting a difuser (cone shape) in the end of the barrel to see if it would disperse the smoke but no real difference.
 
The solenoid on top slides to open a slide valve under the gun and a hatch over the fan. The thought being that when the solenoid is off them the remaining fan suction will slam the hatch closed.
 
It kind of works so is moving in the right direction.
 
Question: If I piggy back two fans would I get a meaningfull increase in pressure?
 
More work to do!
 
Cheers
 
Geoff
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dreadnought72

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #195 on: October 22, 2015, 09:40:14 AM »

I would love to see a video of the above in action.  O0


Andy
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ballastanksian

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #196 on: October 22, 2015, 12:07:22 PM »

I am wondering if you would need a stronger fan unit for each barrel or pair of to get the desired quantity of smoke. Still, this is an interesting subject, what with the amazing build as well.

It always fills me with pleasure when I see this topic in my inbox.
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Geoff

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #197 on: October 22, 2015, 12:33:34 PM »

Thank you for your kind comments. Actually the plan was just to use one barrel on each turret for the smoke and the other to contail a bright LED for the flash, however you have given me an idea. If I can't get enough smoke through one barrel then I could use both barrels and do away with the LED. This would get double the smoke volume - hmm actually on reflection it won't work because I have to pump the smoke up through a 6mm pipe on the turret axis so that may be the limiting factor but given that any gas speeds up when going through a restriction it may still work if I join both barrels together in the turret.
 
Hmmm, food for thought here.
 
First plan is to increase the fan pressure and see how that works. The real problem is gas leakage from the valves which is where the fine detail comes in! As always the devil is in the detail.
 
I'll report back when I have some more progress .
 
Thanks
 
Geoff
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ballastanksian

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #198 on: October 22, 2015, 07:15:48 PM »

Good show Geoff. I am working out my 'Jolly' schedule for next year as I really want to see your ship and sail mine at Mayhem next year.
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Geoff

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #199 on: November 05, 2015, 01:57:13 PM »

Not much to report on the build really. I have been making and installing some of the brass bridge fittings which look kind of nice in pollished brass. Started work on the steam launches. I have used a bread and butter method with obechi and then a thin ply deck wedged up at bow and stern to give the sheer line. The narroe gap being filled with wood filler. All then being sanded to shape and painted mutiple coats of grain filler to provide a smooth finish.
 
Reserach has shown that if I piggy back two fans of the same power I dont get a significant or meaningfull increase in the volume of the air being pushed through but it does effectivley double the static pressure. I have six PC fans 9.8 CFM on order but the delivery date is the end of November.
 
I'm having unexpected trouble matching the paintwork. Whilst the colour mix is 50/50 the last batch is drying with more of a satin sheen rather than a matt finish. Anyone got any ideas? If I added some matt varnish would this just dull it down a little?
 
Oh well, keep on building!
 
Cheers
 
Geoff
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