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[Geoff]

Okay, finally some updated pictures. Hope these may be of interest
 
Cheers
 
Geoff

[ballastanksian]

You are a tonic for a late autumns evening Geoff. I cannot wait to see your wonderful build next year, she looks amazing.

[Geoff]

I'm still working on this but not a lot to show for it as she just swallows anything I do. I started making the ships davits which I thought was going to be quite time consuming and awkward but in the event it really was very quick. I used a 6” piece of ½” square timber with a small plank superglued to one side. I held this in the milling attachment on the lathe and put the brass rod in the lathe with the wood supporting the rod to keep it all stable. Then just filed it into a taper but I left 3-4mm untouched at the top end. I then annealed the brass and flattened the end bit and drilled a hole through and filed it into a circular shape. This obviated the need to solder a very small circular disc at the end. So far so good!

The problem I have is that the two sea boats either side of the forward superstructure would stick out just too far on a working model so I want to turn them inboard. I have seen pictures of battleships like this when in harbour so they obviously had the same concerns. However on ID these davits are very long at the top to clear the ships side and if I turn them inboard there is nowhere for the boats to go unless I have them sit close to the davits which pputs the rigging at the wrong angle. I may just have to do this for practical reasons.

I have finally completed the ships boats with all the internals, seats etc:

2 x 50ft steam launches
1 x 45ft admiral’s barge
1 x 42ft launch
3 sea boats
2 cutters
4 whalers
1 rowing boat

14 in all but I now have to make 50 pulleys of 1/8" in diameter for all the boats to rig them.

I'll post some more pictures when there is something tangible to show.

I'm still pondering the gunfire system and must do some more experiments to prove the theory.

Cheers

Geoff

[ballastanksian]

Hi Geoff, if fourteen boats, davits and some nifty brass forging is not tangible then I am not sure the term has a use these days! That sounds like a lot of work and worth looking at.

[Geoff]

One of the problems I had was in making pulley wheels of the right size. With each of the boats I need 6 pulleys and I have 7 boats that are slung from davits so need 42 pulleys.

I have given this a lot of thought and believe I have found the solution to making pulley blocks. I made 46 of them over the weekend without too much effort. I figured the hard part is really to make loads of small wheels with a grove that were all identical, or nearly so.

So how did I do it? Well I thought it all through and decided mass production was the only way and what I wanted was a long rod already grooved at short intervals so I can just cut off the wheels. I put a piece of 3.2mm (1/8") plastic rod in the lathe and ran the far end through a close fitting piece of brass tube supported in the milling attachment on the cross slide half way down the bed. By moving the cross slide towards the chuck it exposes a small piece of plastic rod sticking out the end of the tube. I used a junior hacksaw to cut a groove (takes about 3-4 seconds with a very light cut) then moved the cross slide a little towards the chuck so I could cut it off with a Stanley knife and so on and so forth.

The brass tube supports the rod and ensured I can rest the cutting knife against the end to get a smooth and parallel cut every time and it’s entirely repeatable. It took me about half hour to produce 50 plus tiny little wheels with a grove in each, no finishing required, each one was perfect as the knife cut requires no finishing.

For the strapping I used 0.6mm copper wire. I bent the wire round a very small drill to put a loop in the wire, tapped it with a hammer to merge the loop together then heated each arm to red hot to anneal it. Hammered each arm flat (used a ½” square section of mild steel) hit with a hammer then bent the arms to become legs. Superglue the wheel in between and left to dry. In practice I found the superglue worked just as well if I dabbed it on the outside as it sucked itself under the strap. Once dried I cut the legs off with wire cutters and we have a perfect looking pulley wheel with a loop at the top for fixing and a grooved wheel. The flat strapping on the outside looks pretty nearly perfect and very realistic.

I modified the process a little to produce some with a loop at the top and a hook at the bottom by doing the same thing but with 0.3mm copper wire, missing out the annealing process and just twisting the bottom of the legs together to provide a hook – simples as they say!

They only needed to be painted to finish off. I see no reason why this process could not be used on any size of plastic pulley needed. You could also make them in brass using the same process but may need to file the end saw cuts smooth afterwards (you can do one end in the lath before cutting off).

I have been making lots of davits and fitting then with all the pulley wheels over the weekend. Slow but certain progress as davits are fiddly little things!

Hope this may help others in looking at how to make little pulleys.

Cheers

Geoff

[Bob K]

Extremely interesting technique Geoff.  Thank you for sharing.  I look forward to a photo in due course to help illustrate how the finished pulleys look.   

[ballastanksian]

I look forward with great enthusiasm to see the progress and boats etc fitted to the great ship! It is going to look so god.

[markjames68]

Wow, that is a nice peice of work, very sharp and clean

[Dreadnought]

Wow that looks really great!

[Geoff]

All ships boats are now fixed in position and slung from the davits where appropriate. I have completed and rigged the two cranes on the aft superstructure and have a flag fixed to the staff just aft of the rear conning tower, looks quite nice!


I have been doing the rigging for the ships boats which takes ages. I use very small 1mm diameter beads to join the rigging as you can pass it through the bead, round the connector, and back through the bead to adjust and fix with super-glue.



The small pulleys worked out fine and look good, just the rigging for the two forward boats to do and then they are done!


I have been building the stern walk and found a source of copped diamond shaped mesh which is just about ideal for the railings. I tend to build this on the ship using brass rod for the base outline then solder all the supports in place then a thinner section for the top rail and the roof rail all soldered together. Once done it looks a bit like a bird cage but is surprisingly strong. I then tack soldered the copper mesh to the bottom and mid rail and paint. Just the roof to do.


I'll try to post some new pictures shortly.


Progress is generally on target but slow as I anticipated the ships boats would be a "log jam" as they are so awkward and time consuming to make.


Now to make some 60 oars! First attempt is quite promising using 1mm plastic rod and just crushing about 1/2" flat in a metal vice. It flattens out to just over 2mm and looks about right.


I have started making the various yards for the foremast but have yet to rig them. A complication here may be that the fore topmast has to be removable to get it into the car.


I still have to devote some urgent time to the gunfire system.


Thinking about the ships rails now as I'm getting to that stage which is always nice as the rails tend to add the finishing touches.


I'm going to have to start selecting batteries and building a test tank soon.


At least some progress


Cheers


Geoff


 

[ballastanksian]

Rubbing hands together with glee at the thought of seeing your boats and rigging Geoff. Bob K is looking at fitting a gunfire system into his Abercrombie and suggested he read this topic to see how you were going about things. Two eads are better than one etc.

Keep up the good work Geoff

[Geoff]

Okay,


Some updated pictures as of yesterday. Also a couple of pictures on "gunfire" please see the related topic but I seem to be on the right track!


Cheers


Geoff

[Geoff]

The barrels are 10mm plastic tube purchased from 4D model supplies - Leeman St in London (Near Fenchurch Street Station). These tubes are thick walled in the order of 2mm so can be tapered in the lathe. The one on ID has been tapered but the muzzle end still needs tapering in a very slightly outwards direction.


Brass tube will be used to show the larger diameter as we get nearer the turret and this also needs to be subject to a little tapering if possible.


How the guns will be fixed inside the turret is still to be determined but I favour an "L" shaped piece with the brass outer tube soldered to it such the L angle can be bent to produce a little elevation. The inner plastic tube can then project about 4mm for fixing to the smoke tube.


The plan is to use 10mm copper elbow joints but maybe silicon tubing would work better - does anyone know what temperature silicon tubing will handle?


More details to follow in due course as ID develops further.


Cheers


Geoff

[Bob K]

That is a lovely burst of smoke Geoff 

[ballastanksian]

That is a lovely burst of smoke Geoff 

The model is alright as well!!!!

Only kidding Geoff, she is amazing.

[Geoff]

Not a lot of progress to report but have made and painted ten 13.5" gun barrels and ordered some 10mm copper elbows which I hope to use between the centerline of the turret tube to the rear of the gun barrel. I anticipate a lot of "fettling"


At least with the barrels fitted she will now really look like a battleship


Geoff

[Geoff]

One step forwards and two steps backwards. Now that I have the guns installed the distance between the end of the barrel and the centreline "smoke trunk" is very small and the best angle I can get is about 45 degrees. Alternatively I could route the smoke trunk/pipe rearwards into a semi circle and then join the gun barrel. Either way I can't do much until the 8mm ID silicon tubing arrives then I'll have a better idea which way will work best.


The servo morphs despite being connected to small sail winches don't quite give me 180 degree movement which is very disappointing. I have solved this by wrapping a couple of layers of plastic card round each grove in the winch drum thus increasing the circumference and the length of pull to the turrets. All very fiddly and time consuming but it does appear to have worked. Now only Q, X and Y to alter!


I've also rethought the gun valve design and may now go for a cone on a see-saw type arrangement inside the smoke chamber. The valve being held closed by a counterbalance weight (or a very light spring) and opened by using a solenoid to pull down the cone. The Piston valve will be better suited to the actual air pump.


The benefit of the "cone valve" is that it is contained within the smoke box and not on top and thus reduces the overall height of the system.


More details and pictures to follow in due course.


Cheers


Geoff

[derekwarner]

Geoff........if you have varying levels of disappointment with the final [train] rotation for the gun mount, could I suggest it is not the ACTion P96 servomorph, but the choice of the sail winch servo you have purchased

The manufacturers documentation clearly states to up to around 180 degrees. I needed a full guaranteed 180 degree rotation for a chosen function and compensated for any shortfall in rotation by other means

I suggest the real beauty of these P96 units is not only the variable adjustment of each end point, but the smooth slow rotation that can be achieved...so pleased with them I have three for my current build......... Derek

[Geoff]

I agree to a degree but a servo only has a natural movement of about 45 degrees. With the servo morph this extends this to about 160 degrees. With a sail winch having a much greater natural rotation (end to end) I anticipated there would be no issues in getting at least 180 degrees movement on the turrets.

I winch the turrets round with fishing line attached to the circumference round a drain pipe connector which is about 3" in diameter. The loop attaching to the winch drum. "A" turret is then linked by fishing line to "B" turret so they both move together.

I have solved this problem by simply increasing the diameter of the winch drum so the same degree of rotations of the winch pulls in a longer length of line which in turn rotates the turrets a few degrees further so it now works. However I'm a little disappointed that a very very minor adjustment on the servo morph creates quite a significant degree of movement on the turret and the self centring point seems a little variable as well. When using the throw adjustment there seems to be no reaction then a sudden movement.

I suspect the issue is using it on a sail winch rather than a servo . I got the sail winches from the same source.

It works but candidly I see no real advantage to my older system in modifying a standard servo to give a greater degree of rotation (Cut out the potentiometer and remotely wire it in. Remove any gear train limiting lugs then extend the gear train of the servo and position the potentiometer further down the gear chain and you end up with at least 180 degrees of rotation and self centring).

I do however agree the servo morph does give smooth operation and of course speed control which makes it ideal for fine tuning. I just find the adjusters a little "coarse" in action. A good product though and not excessively expensive. Perhaps more familiarity will improve things.

Cheers

Geoff

[Geoff]

As an update I'm still developing the gunfire system and despite my earlier post have gone back to a sliding valve design. Basically a miniature ruler with two holes inside a sleeve. When pulled the two holes match with and entry and exit holes in the sleeve thus letting the smoke pass through. These were quite easy to build in plastic card and require very little effort to operate and have the benefit of being very flat so do not occupy much space.


One end is then connected to a miniature solenoid such that when power is supplied it moves the "ruler" to align with the pass through holes. With power off the spring on the solenoid pushes back and closes the valve.


This all works fine but:


1) The solenoids I have only give 10mm of movement but I was able to extend this to about 15mm simply by removing the retaining nut and stretching the spring a little.


2) This worked fine but the other two identical solenoids just wont work the same way! No real idea why but have accepted a lesser movement which nearly opens the slide valve which should be sufficient to let the smoke pass through.


I have made three box like structures to act as smoke boxes and to hold the smoke unit and am trying to fix them into the model - actually they will fix underneath the deck and curiously this is proving to be quite difficult to get a gas tight seal. I intend to use Vaseline as the seal so this will work but in hindsight maybe it would have been better to have the boxes as a sliding fit rather than just held on by screws.


The problem area is how to link the valve to the solenoid via a gas tight seal as the solenoid is outside the smoke box. At the moment the pull rod just passes through a brass tube which whilst not 100% gas tight with a little bit of condensation should be close enough! This seems to work but increases the length of the system by about 2.5" which has caused some fitting problems.


Random thoughts here:


1) Would the solenoid continue to work if it was inside the smoke box in a fog atmosphere?
2) What about using an electromagnet outside the box to attract a metal plate on the slide valve and move the valve that way - how strong would the electromagnet need to be?
3) Possible interference with the radio control?


This is the problem with development as there are multiple theoretical solutions to solve any particular problem but no factual data as to which will be the best solution - just have to suck it and see.


More pictures to follow shortly.


Cheers


Geoff

[Bob K]

You are into truly pioneering territory here Geoff.  I suggest that when you get it working you might think of Patenting it, maybe even getting someone to build it under licence.  That way we can all have one, plus you get some return for all your development work.

Sounds exciting.  Well done !

[Geoff]

A nice idea, but if I can get this to work it will be a "freebee" for anyone who wants it. Again if I can get it to work I intend to draw up some plans and some narrative to match.

Lets get lots of models doing it and them we can fight a mock battle all day!

Cheers

Geoff

[rob]

I've just bought some 180 degree servos from ebay, same size as a standard servo and not a lot more expensive. The arm will move further than 180 degrees, so meybe with the servo morph you could get 220 plus ?

[Geoff]

I have spent absolutely hours making and remaking components for the gunfire system. i have used an old hairdryer motor fan unit for the main blower which I originally installed amidships until ai remembered that was where one of the batteries was going to go!


I then found a bigger fan/motor combination which gave much more air and have installed this in the bow section - not ideal for air flow but I hope there will be sufficient I used B&Q 1" plastic pipe and the various connectors. L and T shaped connectors.


One thing I find hard to make are plastic cones so I found some cheap plastic wine glassed at Tesco £2 for eight which has detachable stems which gave me a very nice cone to jet the air into the smoke box. I used the main part of the wine glass to cone the air into a 1" diameter pipe but found it was 1/4" too big to fit so then used a PVA glue container which was nicely coned, then as above I found a larger fan unit so used a plastic bottle which gives a very nice run in and as a bonus the 1" pipe is a perfect fit.


I'll post some pictures which makes this all clear early next week but in conclusion I get a very strong blast of air out of each nozzle into each smoke box which I think will be strong enough!


Progress but its very slow particularly as I have had to alter the smoke boxes for Q and X & Y to fit the pipework - running out of room and getting a little fed up in taking everything apart a dozen times to do anything!


Cheers


Geoff

[ballastanksian]

At least you will be familiar with the internals of the model Geoff. I look forward to see the pictures as you have spent lots of time perfecting the system.