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Author Topic: IRON DUKE 1914  (Read 154661 times)

g6swj

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #275 on: April 25, 2016, 08:36:33 am »

Quote
) terrible radio interference and complete loss of control. I'm on 27 and have never experienced a similar problem. Even a change of crystals made no difference. Traced it down to interference caused by the funnel smoke generator. I'm using step up voltage regulator for 12v to 24v. It has a completely separate power supply. Does anybody have any ideas?

Geoff - could be a combination of many things: (I imagine most of these you have already considered)

Check out
  • Proximity of voltage step-up device to receiver/aerial - try to get them as far apart as possible
  • Lead lengths - shortest possible cable lengths - both dc power and servo - routed as far away from each other as possible - shortest length probably difficult to achieve in a large model
  • Ferrite ring - worth trying a ferrite ring on the 24v cable - maybe others as well - even servo leads
  • Common ground - worth trying connecting a common ground(-) connection between all electrical kit in the boat
  • Re-evaluate need for 24v - e-cig coils can work @ <12v
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Geoff

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #276 on: April 25, 2016, 01:36:02 pm »

Okay, now for some pictures. The first two show ID in the home made test tank and yes that is a bottle of vinegar used as extra ballast! The other pictures are self explanatory.


She is not yet finished with the most obvious omission being the ships railings.


Cheers


Geoff




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dreadnought72

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #277 on: April 25, 2016, 02:14:04 pm »

 :-))  (Huge round of applause from me)


She looks the business, Geoff.


Andy
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warspite

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #278 on: April 25, 2016, 07:47:24 pm »

Love the dry dock supports on the stand, certainly gives her the look of being real, absolute astounding on the water.
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ballastanksian

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #279 on: April 25, 2016, 09:52:51 pm »

She looks positivly majestic in the water Geoff. You must be chuffed to see her sailing at last and so near to completion?

So why did you choose the vinear bottle Geoff> I cannot imagine you were running around like a mad man screaming for something to stop ID from capsizing. I bet you and your significant other had been eating fish and chips just before and the bottle was still near by!
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Geoff

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #280 on: May 01, 2016, 11:09:10 pm »

Okay, another sailing session on Sunday at Southchurch Park in Southend and she sailed quite well indeed. Better speed and longer duration and am now getting about 2 hours before I need to change batteries. One of the previous batteries was not holding the charge too well and ai have removed some of the grease from the prop shafts so overall better.


Where there was a failure again was with the funnel smoke generators as I removed the 12/24 volt regulator and linked two 12v batteries in series and the result was exactly the same, massive interference. I can only conclude that the nebulisers and 27m do not mix so I'll have to revert to the original idea of nichrome wire and fog fluid. Anybody got any thoughts on this? In fact with four nebulisers on 24 volts they were drawing 2 amps so 2 x 24 = 48 watts which is equivalent to 4 amps at 12 volts = 48 watts. winds were light today and the nebuliser smoke was easily dissipated so maybe the fog fluid will be better but certainly lighter so I can get another 6v 7.2amp hour main propulsion battery aboard.


railings now all complete and just have a few bits and pieces to go but either way she is definatley ready for Wicksteed Park on the Saturday. I may even have some of the gund working!


Cheers


Geoff
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dreadnought72

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #281 on: May 02, 2016, 12:35:43 am »

... I removed the 12/24 volt regulator and linked two 12v batteries in series and the result was exactly the same, massive interference. I can only conclude that the nebulisers and 27m do not mix so I'll have to revert to the original idea of nichrome wire and fog fluid. Anybody got any thoughts on this?


"2.4GHz" would be my first thought. 27MHz is so twenty years ago.  %)


Andy
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radiojoe

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #282 on: May 02, 2016, 01:11:12 pm »

My thoughts entirely, that magnificent ship surely deserves a decent 2.4g set, I've ditched all my old Mhz sets now.
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andrewh

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #283 on: May 03, 2016, 03:48:10 am »

Geoff


The nebulisers are basically a ultrasound loudspeaker and the diaphragm shakes the water into droplets small enough to not-quite fall out of the air


So the 24VDC is running some sort of tone generator and driving a minispeaker at very high frequency


I started out with a brilliant idea (Faraday cage) and as I was writing I can see that it would only work with RF interference
I was about to suggest that you surround the misters with a lot of turkey foil and see if that helps


(I fear it may not do so since I suspect the real culprit is electromagnetic)


Its probably worth a try  :-)

More likely to work would be be an enclosure which would kill magnetic interference - and something in tin would seem to be worth a try
Not sure how big the misters are (I have one which is about 60mm dia and 30mm thick  - with pretty leds, already!) but putting them in an old tin can would check if the interference was absorbed.

As the wise men say - 2.4 giggles may completely remove the issue - it certainly does for gross mabuchi-sparking, so its worth a try. (the last 4-ch 2.4 GHz set I got was GBP25 with a spare Rx as well)

hope you triumph with this great model
andrew

[/size][size=78%]  [/size]
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Geoff

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #284 on: May 04, 2016, 11:07:45 pm »

Thank you all for your suggestions which appreciated. I'll give this some thought. In the meantime if you go to Youtube and type in Iron Duke Southchurch Park there is a short video of her sailing - thank you Angela!


Cheers


Geoff
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dreadnought72

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #285 on: May 04, 2016, 11:40:41 pm »

Lovely!


Speed seems fine, Geoff.


Andy
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ballastanksian

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #286 on: May 04, 2016, 11:47:56 pm »

Gorgeous!
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Geoff

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #287 on: May 05, 2016, 02:13:35 pm »

Yes, in the video the speed does seem fine but when actually there it seems a little slow particularly when in rougher (wind swept water). In the video she is at maximum speed.


Slightly curious wake formation at the stern which is quite realistic but may be a function of slightly larger props than scale.


For Wicksteed I have built a hot wire/glycol smoke generator running on 12 volts which draws 3.5 amps. Lets see how that performs. I hope to try to get the gunfire system for the forward two turrets functioning as well. Without sound but perhaps it will prove the process!


A hidden benefit of this is that it removes the weight of a pint and a half of water which I can then use to increase the battery capacity. The glycol unit is also much smaller.


I now have crew aboard together with some more booms along the upper deck edge, flagstaff at bow and stern.


Making progress and lets hope there are a number of Battleships at Wicksteed for some manoeuvres!


Cheers


Geoff
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Geoff

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #288 on: May 09, 2016, 01:23:00 pm »

Further update - by replacing the smoke generator with a glycol based unit this has freed up considerable internal space to the extent I can now get the two 12v 7.2 amp hr batteries parallel with the smoke unit in the middle and move them stern-wards by about 1". This also means I can now fir two 6v 7.2 amp hr batteries between the aft funnel and Q turret which now increases the 6v main engine capacity to 3 x 7.2 ahr + 2 3.2 ahr for a total of 28 ahr which is much better and should give me extended running times of about 3-4 hours. I have also removed about 1/2 pound of led from the bows as well as I think otherwise there would be a bow down trim but this will show up in the next floatation test.




It actually simplifies the internal arrangement which now looks much more logical.


I have fitted the gunfire control mechanism such that if I depress the joystick for two seconds and let go it will perform one complete cycle. If I hold the joystick down it will be continuous.


Name plates have been fitted to the aft superstructure and stern walk and I'll tackle the 60 oars soon!


Cheers


Geoff

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ballastanksian

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #289 on: May 09, 2016, 07:58:12 pm »

Crikey, That's a lot of battleship to row about :}
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Geoff

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #290 on: May 17, 2016, 01:56:33 pm »

Okay, it was a fairly good sail last Sunday and certainly the new motive batteries have significantly increased the duration to well over three hours with no loss of speed so that problem has been solved. Other than weed and catching a plastic bag which typically wrapped itself round both inboard props disabling the hip, and blew both motor 5 amp fuses it was a very good sail indeed. The engines are virtually silent and all appears to be well.


The new smoke generator worked well for 2.5 hours pretty nearly continuous smoking then the inevitable happened and the smoke turned blacker and smelt of burning plastic. I had a small fire on board which burned out a hole a good 1" in diameter on the smoke generator and damaged the smoke trunking. No actual damage to the model itself. I just switched off the smoke generator and blew down the funnel which put the fire out.


So why did it catch fire? I figure that after 20 mins it was all at ambient temperature but after 2.5 hours the fog fluid level had dropped quite a bit (it was not empty) but sufficient for the wick absorption rate to decrease to the extent the unused heat caused the element to glow red which in turn melted the top and dropped a small piece of plastic onto the hot element starting the fire.  Even a very small flame produces a lot of heat. It would appear that the alloy heat shield I used was just a little short. Repairs consisted of lining the plastic box with thin alloy and extending the heat shield all the way at the top and end with just a hole to exit the smoke into the funnel trunking.


What was pleasing was the smoke was pretty even from both funnels. As a further modification I have stacked two PC fans rather than one. This will not increase the air volume but should increase the ambient pressure a little and it costs nothing to do so lets see what happens next time. Memo to self, refill the smoke generator after 90 mins maximum use. This has not happened before because in my other units the fog fluid capacity exceeds the amp hour capacity of the battery so I would only get about 45 mins. despite the small fire I'm fairly relaxed about this as I believe I know both the problem and the solution.


I have been making oars and small bits for the anchor chain apparatus so just need to get these fitted.


Iron Duke fits readily in my Vectra but the top mast has about 2mm clearance! I'll shorten the top mast just a little for safety - I hope scale purists will forgive me but it also means I can now fix permanent signal halyards from the spars.


Attached are a few pictures.

Next steps is to focus on the turret turning and gunfire system  now that I have the key motive elements of the design worked out.

Cheers 

Geoff



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g6swj

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #291 on: May 17, 2016, 02:02:58 pm »

Geoff,

Great pictures - very impressive.

Maybe worth putting a small digital kitchen timer on-board as a "top up fluid" reminder - can be purchased from Amazon for £1.29 post free
Regards Jonathan
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ballastanksian

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #292 on: May 17, 2016, 08:18:32 pm »

Despite all the risk of fire and destruction, did she look good with a  bit of black smoke? She looks absolutely amazing and I look forward to seeing her in a few days.

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derekwarner

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #293 on: May 17, 2016, 10:27:39 pm »

She looks superbly menacing on the water...congratulations Geoff :-)).......small fire on board when at sea?....all in a days steaming
Derek
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littoralcombat

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #294 on: May 18, 2016, 12:55:52 pm »

A very nice model Geoff, she looks superb! :-))
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Geoff

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #295 on: May 25, 2016, 03:58:36 pm »

Whilst a little bit of duplication its hard to believe its gone from this to this in 32 months. The keel was laid on 7th October, 2013 and I think I can call her finished! (well nearly so).


Hope to see lots of other Jutland Battleships on Saturday at Wicksteed.


Cheers


Geoff
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Geoff

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #296 on: May 25, 2016, 04:10:36 pm »

And now the attachments!


Doh!
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ballastanksian

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #297 on: May 27, 2016, 12:00:08 am »

Fingers crossed I will see this beauty in a day or so's time.
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Geoff

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #298 on: August 16, 2016, 01:46:19 pm »

Nothing significant to report on the build which is really finished albeit there is always something to add on a model this size. Having said that I made some changes to the simulated gunfire mechanism and focused on "A and B" turrets only. On Sunday the conditions were ideal and I was able to get sufficient smoke out of two barrels such that members of the public kept asking where was the bang!


To summarise:


1) I reduced the volume of the smoke box by about 20/25%. The rational behind this was I was probably diluting the smoke too much when the fan kicked in. Either way it seemed to work with a much better density of smoke (in ideal conditions and light). This also increases available hull volume which is a bonus.


2) I removed the troublesome smoke box slide valves and accepted an element of smoke drift from the barrels when the system is charging. In practice its hardly noticeable and simplifies the system significantly.


3) I put a curved alloy plate over the air inlet in the smoke boxes to direct the air onto the element for better mixing.


4) I amended the control cam drum such the heating/smoke element was on for longer for about 10 seconds and reduced the fan duration to about 2.5 seconds - the results seem a lot better.




There were a number of pictures taken and in due course I hope to get some copies and post some here. I fired about about 20 salvos in all  so some 40 shots overall. If I can do 20 salvos with all the guns this would give me 100 shots!


Next steps are to modify the smoke boxes under "Q" and "X and Y" and see if I have the battery capacity to run all three units simultaneously. Whilst the smoke volume is still a little less than I would like if I can increase it from 2 guns to 5 then I should have 2.5 times more smoke which may well be sufficient to simulate a proper broadside particularly if linked to a sound generator.


I don't think its ever going to be an absolutely perfect system because I'm ejecting fog rather than smoke so the direction of the light has a significant effect on the visibility of the "smoke" but I'm quite optimistic it may well prove to be enough to achieve the overall effect.


More to follow in due course.


Cheers


Geoff
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ballastanksian

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Re: IRON DUKE 1914
« Reply #299 on: August 21, 2016, 10:52:24 pm »

I await your images with excitement Geoff. The model is astounding and any effect that enhances that will be worth seeing.
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