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Author Topic: Sinking Model Titanic  (Read 2505 times)

johnben

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Sinking Model Titanic
« on: December 31, 2013, 11:24:48 am »

Hi Folks,
I wonder if I can trespass on your knowledge, sometime next year I hope to build a rough hull based on Titanic in order to prove/disprove a theory I have about the ship. Basically the theory revolves around the vessel steaming astern in a starboard circular arc.I have purchased a 1:400
damaged model of the ship and plan to cut the deck off so I can insert  the bulkheads, however the model looks like it it is made from a hard plastic or resin and I am not sure I can fit two
small motors in there to drive the astern propellers. I am new to this sort of thing.Is there any recommended basic reading on the subject as I am unsure on a number of points e.g by reducing the size of the ship to the ratio of 1:400 does this mean that the top speed, of 24 kn would be reduced by the same amount? If anyone is interested in how I have reached this point please see here, but beware it's a lot of reading:

www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/forums/collision-sinking-theories/31706-did-titanic-have-sink.html

Thanks John


Top entry fails....  try this one.    Ken


http://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/forums/collision-sinking-theories/31706-did-titanic-have-sink.html


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Martin (Admin)

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Re: Sinking Model Titanic
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2013, 02:06:43 pm »

Fonts resized - Admin  :-)
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cos918

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Re: Sinking Model Titanic
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2013, 04:11:13 pm »

Hi john
look at this link to deans forum
http://www.deansmarine.co.uk/index.php?topic=6.0

john
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NFMike

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Re: Sinking Model Titanic
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2013, 10:27:48 pm »

Well, I read the first page of the thread you linked and from the posts by apparently knowledgeable people it seems that your theory is highly unlikely to be correct.

To be honest I doubt if a small scale model will be 'fine' enough to prove it either way, the problem being that the model is scale but the water is 12":1'. At low speeds the venturi effect is quite slight and as suggested on the other forum you'd also need to accurately model the jagged edges and folds of the damaged sections to get the correct water-flows. I think you'd need a model more like 8' long (about 1:100) to have a chance of getting results that were reasonably reliable, and that would obviously solve your difficulty in fitting motors, etc, as well.

Good luck with your research.

johnben

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Sinking Model Titanic
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2014, 09:29:10 am »

Hi Folks

Thanks for the replies, I think at 8ft this is not going to be the easy project I imagined, does this mean that at 100:1 the top speed would be 0.24 kn and the time taken to sink reduced from 2.5 hours to 1.5 minutes.

John
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Sinking Model Titanic
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2014, 12:08:56 pm »

Speed scales by the square root of the scale, 1:100 gives 1/10, so 2.4Kt.
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furball

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Re: Sinking Model Titanic
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2014, 03:12:14 pm »

Time doesn't scale, so it will still take 2 1/2 hours.


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NFMike

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Re: Sinking Model Titanic
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2014, 04:08:59 pm »

Thanks for the replies, I think at 8ft this is not going to be the easy project I imagined,



As I understand it you believe that if the Titanic had steamed flat-out astern (about 10 knots probably) with rudder to starboard (ie. in an anti-clockwise circle) then one or more dynamic effects would effectively reduce the waterline above the hole(s) in the hull, and thus reduce the water level inside the hull so it did not overtop the watertight divisions.


A number of people on your other forum have provided evidence or opinions to say this wouldn't work, so you are now embarking on a test with a model to prove it one way or the other. That means you need to be scientifically rigorous - just doing your own little test and saying "There you are" will not convince other people. The tests need to provide proof that allows for experimental error and they also need to be replicable by other people.


The difficulty with a scale model test is the size of errors involved. I would think that the effects you are hoping for would result in a reduction (if any) of waterline above the damaged area of the Titanic of probably only a few inches, but let's say it's a foot/300mm. Let's also say that 1 foot is all that is needed to stop the water overtopping the bulkheads. On a 1:400 model that 300mm becomes 0.75mm. Building your model to that accuracy and then operating it and measuring the various water levels to the same accuracy is nigh on impossible. Also any ripples on the pond (cos this won't be a bath test) will tend to swamp the results and surface tension will also make things trickier. Even at 1:100 that 300mm is only 3mm, which is still going to need a lot of careful work to replicate accurately enough to convince other people that the test proves your theory.


And don't forget that you'll need to run the test several times and given it's 'on the edge' it's probable that at least sometimes it will sink. So some means to recover the model for reuse will be required too.


So no, it's certainly not going to be easy, and in fact I'd say it will be very hard, and time consuming, and expensive.

Colin Bishop

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Re: Sinking Model Titanic
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2014, 05:18:11 pm »

Also, if the forepart of the ship was extensively flooded then the maximum astern speed would have been severely reduced, even more so as the propellers approached the surface where they would have had less grip.

As has been said previously, unless you have a very large model then it is not possible to scale down the relative factors satisfactorily. That is why large models are used when tank testing.

Colin
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McGherkin

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Re: Sinking Model Titanic
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2014, 07:50:50 pm »

You also have to take into consideration the amount of time it would've taken the Titanic to get moving. The model will be FAR faster.
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johnben

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Sinking Model Titanic
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2014, 07:04:23 pm »

To all who responded, thanks for taking the time.

Taking into account the advise given this is not going to be an easy viable project as I first thought, so on the back burner it goes for the time being. I  am pleased I asked for advice though as  it has saved me a lot of time and effort.

Happy New Year

John
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