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[hammer]

I have asked this question before with no answer. Has any one else used Rothenburger- Rolot S2, this is brazing rod containing only 0.5% silver.  Needs no flux for copper to copper, will braze copper to bronze (curtain types of bronze will become porous if to much heat is applied)  with Tenacity or Easy Flow flux.  I get mine free but it only cost £0.70 a stick & with a slightly higher melting temperature than Easy Flow it can be very useful.   

[Jerry C]

Hi Hammer, I can't comment as I have no experience of this kit.
        On with the boiler. I has an incident while cleaning up the bench prior to assembly. While running the vacuum cleaner nozzle over the bench I failed to pay attention to what the hose was doing behind me and knocked the boiler shell onto the floor. Result, a slightly deformed rear rim. It wasn't a bad one but it did show it's effects later on. I assembled it all out of the pickle bath, cleaning with wire wool and applying flux as I went. Applied 1mm thick solder rings as required and carefully fluxed over the solder. Wrapped the boiler in insulation matting from bottom to top, securing with copper wire. Put the wrapped boiler in the hearth with the matting tucked underneath and made a hood out of two sheets of insulation. On with the goggles, hat, thick coat and welders gloves, a deep breath and flashed up the torch (1", jet unknown and using butane) and off we go. Kept the nozzle moving and got up to temperature. The flux didn't behave as expected but turned to like dirty slush on the side of the road in winter, however finally it started to clear, everything came clean, a quick look without the torch showed a dull red glow, replaced the flame and then one after the other the small rings melted followed by the firetube ring then the shell ring and the last bit between the firetube bottom and the shell (good heatsink here methinks). Kept the torch moving until sure everthing taken then shut off. See video here, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYxXb7u45Fg&list=UUbagXHeyf-nZGj-QE8latEQ&feature=share
Total time taken 13 minutes. It seemed like an hour and panic would have occurred if I hadn't actually kept my eye on the clock. Removed most of the insulation and let everything cool down, Takes a long time to cool enough to turn over to do other end. When I did I found that the back end flux had run off into the matting, the peeling off of which gave the appearance of a boiler with a violent fungal infection!! It took me a goodly while to clean all that lot off until, praying that the flux had stayed in the joins, I applied more flux, re-seated the rings and repeated the process with similar results. Repositioned for top bushes and finished the job, or so I thought.......
          After pickling and cleaning off I found that one return tube on both ends hadn't run into the joint and the tube was loose, the pressure gauge bush on the front plate had soldered but not dropped into the hole when the solder melted and finally the solder on the backplate rim between the rim and the bottom of the fire tube in way of the aforementioned ding had run but was showing no sign of a fillet for 1 ". Apart from this all looked neat and tidy with no excess of solder all over the place. I resoldered the back plate with another ring of solder but there was still a small gap so did it a gain after straightening the left over bits of solder putting them in the gap This time backplate all ok. Re-did the front plate giving the offending bush a little encouragement with my little hammer. Result. I'm pleased. Used 12feet of 1mm Silverflow55 wire, 50gms of flux and best part of 4Kg Gas. Suntan's coming on well though!

Thankyou all for your advice, pictures and encouragement.

Next job, rig up an hydraulic test rig.
Jerry.

[southsteyne2]

Looks good Jerry could hear the sigh of relief over here any eyebrows left , my turn shortly and after watching your video I must revise my heating arrangement as mentioned in another post my first boiler was done with oxy gear and now I have propane also found citric acid in local woolworths thanks for your posts have been a great help
Cheers
John

[ooyah/2]

Jerry,
Congratulations on your first boiler build, it's not one of the easiest boilers to braze up with the thickness of the copper,  but you have done it now and any others will be a doddle, well done.

If you don't wish to make a full hydraulic test kit a quick way is to get a pressure gauge about 3 x the test pressure required, make a fitting to suit the gauge , which is usually 1/4 B.S.P and to suit one of the bushes in your boiler.
Totally fill the boiler with cold water and screw the gauge on with all other outlets plugged, gently heat the side of the boiler with a plumbers blow lamp, and I mean gently, watch the pressure rise in 20 p.s.i stages to what ever your W.P. will be, letting it sit between stages and when it starts to drop gently heat again to take the pressure up in  20 p.s.i. i stages to eventually you reach 2 x the W.P.
Do this in very easy stages as the copper is still very soft in its annealed state and if pressure is applied to quickly you can blow out the boiler into a barrel shape.

Be care full as you get near the test pressure as if you hold the burner on to the boiler it can very quickly whip the pressure up.

Make sure that the boiler and surrounding area is completely dry and if there are any leaks you will see the pressure dropping rapidly and water will be coming from the leaking joint.

If you have a pressure gauge but not the tap to make an adapter let me know and if it's 1/4 B.S.P. I can make you one.

George.

[steamboatmodel]

That looks great. I would have been shutting the torch down about the four minute mark and looking for more torches. I usually use two or three, with one provideiing what I call kick over heat and the others background heat, but to each there own if it gets the job done.
Regards,
Gerald.

[Jerry C]

Gerald, I've only got one big torch so needs must. Thanks George, did test before I got your post. I made a test rig out of old car tyre pump. Filled the boiler and bike pump with water and took her up to 60psi. Found a couple of the blanking plugs leaking past the new copper washers. Re sealed all the plugs with dreibond and checked again. Took her up to 120 psi in stages and left it for an hour with no loss of pressure. My gauge compared with pump gauge checked against. My best Bluepoint gauge. Will check the little gauge tomorrow when I make a siphon fitting.
Jerry.

[steamboatmodel]

As I said what ever gets the job done, I do not have a large torch so must use a number of smaller ones
Regards,
Gerald.

[Jerry C]

Made up a siphon tube and fitting for the miniature gauge then did another
 pressure test to compare gauge with standard. All ok.
Made a start on the smoke box made from a desk swing bin from Home and Bargains. Marked off for the cut then cut can to size with shears. Tidied up the cut edge with an emery drum in the dremel. Marked out and cut the holes for the extensions for gauge and sight glass lower fitting. Cut the hole for the burner by drilling a big hole with a step drill then finishing with shears and dremel. Use some of the waste metal to make an internal flame shroud to keep flame in the fire tube. Used a couple of 1/16" copper revers to hold in place until brazed. Used same method to cut hole for chimney. Drilled 3x 2mm holes through smoke box and end of shell at 120° and attached smoke box with self tapping screws. Will do fire box tomorrow.
Jerry.

[Jerry C]

Spent all today making fittings for super heater and economiser to pass through and be supported by the fire and smoke boxes. Started to consider where everything's going to go on this plant. Funnel and burner/gas tank forward. Gauge and sight glass front oiler and regulator aft starboard. Feed pump mid length starboard, suction aft, delivery to economiser forward. Whistle on top of dome. Looks like the de-oiler will go port side. This boat will probably have a pair of feedwater tanks with the option of a sea suction for Llanberis. Anyone got a drawing for a gas attenuator? 
I thought I'd try brazing the copper funnel to the smoke box so bought a couple of fluxes rod in the Go System from B&Q. Said they were for copper and stainless steel. 650° to 700° melting. Got both copper and s/s red hot, applied rod to work and the flux liquified and ran off, rod curled up and dropped off and no way could I melt it again. Copper showed signs of melting/blistering.   Cleaned everything again and with the last little bit of silver solder managed to tack flue in place. Riveted the burner hole guide in place before dinner. Will add a couple more rivets tomorrow.
Jerry.

[Jerry C]

Made up the economiser. It started out just like George's but had a mind of its own and this is where it wanted to be so who am I to disagree. All is nearly complete just the extension banjo for the top sight glass fitting, cladding and banding to do. Am sticking with the cream radiator paint but got to find some etch primer for the stainless steel first.
Jerry.

[Stavros]

Jerry has Cnfn suddenly been turned sideways to the world HA HA HA HA ......Your pics are suddenly on their side 
 
 
Dave

[ooyah/2]

Jerry .
It doesn't matter what shape the economiser is as long as the residue heat going up the chimney gets all around the coil.
I may suggest however that if you intend to stick the exhaust up the funnel I would not lag the inside of the smoke box with ceramic insulation as there will be quite a bit of moisture from the exhaust even tho' you have an oil trap and the wool will get saturated in steam oil.

I stick my exhaust up the funnel after the oil trap and the inside of the smoke box gets very wet with a sticky oil residue, this hasn't created any problems over the 15 years that my boiler has been like that as it will dry out but if ceramic wool is inside it will become a gooey mess.

George.

[Jerry C]

Hi again Stav, since the 300Kb experiment my pictures post laterally distorted. If you click on the title they come up ok.
George, totally agree, will have external exhaust. I need to think about a burner. Can you recommend a brand new burner to run off squat round camping disposable cylinders that you know will suit this boiler/bogstandard combo so I can start the adaptation. Out with Kity this weekend to cut the mahogany for the cladding. Hopefully, brass banding arrives tomorrow.
Did a 30mile bike ride today up to Llanberis on to and through Bangor and back home via Felinheli. Some stiff climbs and only a month till Etape Eryri.
Thanks for the advice.
Jerry.

[ooyah/2]

Hi again Stav, since the 300Kb experiment my pictures post laterally distorted. If you click on the title they come up ok.
George, totally agree, will have external exhaust. I need to think about a burner. Can you recommend a brand new burner to run off squat round camping disposable cylinders that you know will suit this boiler/bogstandard combo so I can start the adaptation. Out with Kity this weekend to cut the mahogany for the cladding. Hopefully, brass banding arrives tomorrow.
Did a 30mile bike ride today up to Llanberis on to and through Bangor and back home via Felinheli. Some stiff climbs and only a month till Etape Eryri.
Thanks for the advice.
Jerry.

Jerry.
I use a head from a standard plumbers blow lamp on a swan neck fitted to the screw on top from the blowlamp, the one in the pic is a very old one but the modern ones work as well.
Patternmaker when he built his boiler used this method.


Good to hear that you are still pedaling, my Neuralgia is much better so I hope to get started again when the weather up here gets a bit warmer and better.


George.

[Jerry C]

Ok, I need some help on the burner. I want to use EN 417 gas canisters as they are very common. I've had a good look and keep coming up with Sievert 2293 torch which has a suitable valve and head and a connection between the two easily modified to a swan neck. It's rated at 2.3KW. Is this enough for my boiler?
Jerry.

[xrad]

Jerry, What is the boiler volume? Maybe I missed it somewhere?
 

[Jerry C]

Boiler volume max= 750cc..
Jerry.

[xrad]

Really nice boiler work Jerry!  I think you may just get by with the torch size you have given your return design.  Depends on steam usage as you know. You might consider the parallel gas can set-up to keep gas expansion , cooling, and pressure drop to a minimum....
 

[Jerry C]

My electric kettle is 3 KW and boils 2 litres plus in 5 minutes so I'm hoping 2.3KW will have heat to spare. I don't know the output of my blowtorch used to solder the boiler but the flame is a foot long and 1 1/2" wide but it wouldn't fit in the hole!
Jerry.

[xrad]

the brass torch head I made will melt silver solder 1/16 wire in 5-10 seconds. The issue is how much heat is transferred by the boiler/torch design into the water.
 
I would suspect that in a good 60-70% transfer system (your boiler and torch), you might see boil at 5 min and steam at pressure 10 min.
 
I think But/pro mix has higher heat output than regular propane.

[Jerry C]

I think the purpose of the propane in the mix is to lower the temperature the LPG evaporates. Butane is pretty useless at 0°C. As you say there will also be a small gain in heat due to the addition of propane. The torch should arrive tomorrow and if the sight glass, O rings and solder arrive too I should be able to do a steam test. I took the bezel off the pressure gauge and marked the dial with a red line at 66psi. The bezel came off first tap which was a surprise.  I held the square section where the siphon fits in a hand vice, put the hand vice in the bench vice dial down and used a piece of brass sheet and a very small hammer to drive the bezel off. The tinware is painted and back on. All unions, plugs etc have annealed copper washers and loctite RTV applied. The steam valve is connected to the superheater and the outlet connected to the regulator/oiler. And the output pipe blanked off. I removed the ball from the clack valve and will connect the economiser to the clack and blank the end to check for leaks. The wood is cut for the cladding. So hanging fire at the moment.
Jerry.

[Jerry C]

The first picture shows on the left my pencil flame torch and on the right the intended (after modification) torch. It appeared quite small at first sight but gives a goodly roaring flame. A funny thing, I was using my pencil torch and accidentally laid it on its side and was surprised that it didn't flare. Thinking it was nearly empty I turned it upside down and it still didn't flare. Mindful of the Chinese burner thread I wondered if there was a pickup device inside to prevent liquid pickup and was going to open up the can when empty and have a shuffty. Before I could the new burner arrived and on reading the instructions (sorry but I can't help it) discovered that the Sievert burner transfers heat to the valve head and acts as a vaporiser and will happily work upside down once warmed up. Interesting.
Finally the sight glass tube, O rings and silver solder arrived so I was able to box off the boiler and today performed the first steam test. 1st problem, the sight glass is 8mm o/d and the gland nut is threaded 3/8 ME which didn't leave me enough room to get the 1 mm section O rings in. 2nd problem, I had to ease open the 8mm holes to get a sliding fit for the glass. Sorted that with the dremel and sorted the O ring problem by assembling the sight glass with loctite RTV and forming O  rings.  Left it overnight to cure and did the test this morning.

1st test.
Ambient temp= 15°C
Level = 1/2 way up the glass
Time to safety lifting = 10 minutes.
Safety leaked a small amount of steam when pressure rising and lifted at 60 psi.
Safety re-seated at 30psi. Not good. Will check using "Wear's" safety valve which just pops off.

2nd test.
Boiler warm after refilling
Level at 5/8 full
Time to safety lifting 8 minutes
Tapping safety after lifting re-seats valve but without it vents down to 30 psi.

Minor discolouration of fire box paint, chimney and smoke box paint unaffected.
Gas canister ice cold but flame ok.

Safety valve performance excepted I am a very happy bunny. 
Onwards to lagging and wood cladding.
Jerry.

[hammer]

I make my own "O" rings. Just slice a piece off the end of an end of appropriate size silicon tube.

[wrongtimeben]

Still following with muchos interestos. Looks great.

Ben

[Jerry C]

Well it's been a while since my last post but the boiler is finished. I made up 40 or so 10mm x 3mm strips of mahogany a little longer than the boiler. Approximate number required was 36 so each one was 10° to the next so put a 5° chamfer on each plank edges with a small block plane, (I guessed the 5°). Starting at the top, I used a small drum sanding tool in the dremel to cut the planks to fit around all the bushes and stuck the planks on with superglue. When complete I put pencil marks all around the drum to act as indicators when planing the strips to circular, planed away the bulk with the block plane, before finishing off with a bit of a sand. Three coats of satin varnish with a light sanding between each coat finished it off nicely. When I marked out for the bushes at the start off the build I made sure I would be able to use five equally spaced 1/4" wide brass banding to secure the cladding. The front and rear bands are right at the ends of the boiler. I'm not a fan of wood sticking out past the bands. On my previous banding of the Maccsteam boiler in "Wear" I used 12" lengths of banding which were too short so I had to solder in a lap joint to get them to fit around the cladding with enough left over to make tabs to be able to tighten them. I just bent over by 90° a 1/4" long tab, drilled them for 10 BA nuts and bolts. It always looked amateurish to me but I never had a better idea until I saw a recent post on here showing how it should be done. I can't find it now but whoever it was, thanks. Very profeshnial! 
   So there she is, all done and tested and only awaiting the safety valve to be sorted, will have to chase that up.
    I photo'd both boilers together to give a better idea of the size of the Scotch boiler. Both have the same water capacity (750cc) but the new one makes a lot more steam.
     Will make a start on the engine (Bogstandard) soon.
Thanks for watching.
Jerry.