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[Neil]

I am seriously considering buying one of these machines to turn out my fittings that I have designed for my lifeboats over the years, and other fittings that I have produced........

the big question is...are they viable as a business proposition and also do you need to be able to use design programs on the pooter or will these machines copy an already made master fitting.......cheers, neil.

[warspite]

I pressume they are only usefull for creating from a computer program, they dont scan like a photocopier, though in industry, they have laser scanners that inputs the data into a program, bit like a barcode reader and then maybe these would be used for creating 'copies', but usually only for verification.

[inertia]

Neil
I think you'd need a 3D scanner if you didn't use 3D CAD software. Here's just one of dozens on the interweb http://store.makerbot.com/digitizer
Dave M

[rmaddock]

Neil,

There is software that takes a load of photos and turns them into a 3D "picture".  I've played with it a bit.  I think you're master would have to be quite big.  perhaps you could "render" the original and shrink it down.

http://www.123dapp.com/
and
http://www.123dapp.com/catch

I was trying to render myself ( ) into a 9th scale version for sailing the Nobby 

Not for the faint hearted: http://youtu.be/2L6e16BIl_s

[Brian60]

Neil,

There is software that takes a load of photos and turns them into a 3D "picture".  I've played with it a bit.  I think you're master would have to be quite big.  perhaps you could "render" the original and shrink it down.

http://www.123dapp.com/
and
http://www.123dapp.com/catch

I was trying to render myself ( ) into a 9th scale version for sailing the Nobby 

Not for the faint hearted: http://youtu.be/2L6e16BIl_s

The patch on the top of the head is that for putting in the cellular computer or for removing it?

[rmaddock]

The patch on the top of the head is that for putting in the cellular computer or for removing it?

It's where all the intelligence has leaked from over the years.

[NFMike]

the big question is...are they viable as a business proposition and also do you need to be able to use design programs on the pooter or will these machines copy an already made master fitting.......cheers, neil.

You should read post #2 in this thread by Pat Matthews:
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,46532.0.html

[Bryan Young]

I suppose that many of us have been attracted to the notion of getting one of these.
I even went so far as to obtain a full description of how to make one using "off the shelf" parts from Maplins etc.
But the speed of production is still too low to use as a mass production tool.......unless you spend mega amounts of money.
    I think I'll wait a bit longer (if I live long enough) and observe design improvements. BY.

[Liverbudgie2]

Neil,

Before you go further, I would recommend that you learn 3D cad drawing and then send your results to one of the many companies that produce them on an industrial scale.

Currently, home 3D printing is just not viable for what you want to do, even for a fairly basic set you would have to fork out at least 1K. Costs will of course come down and machines will improve, but that is a long way off at present, at least ten years I would say. 

LB

[wee speug]

ten years away before we have a viable 3D printer ...as for forking out a 1K....thats peanuts if the end result gives you what you want.....the way technology is progressing....i,d say cut your 10 years to less than a 3rd of that ..and you,d be nearer the mark...

[essex2visuvesi]

3d home printing is still very much in its infancy, and its still in the realms of the tinkerer.  While I have managed to get some passable results with the Thing-o-matic, the parts still have a slight stepped appearance to them.  This means some final finishing is required.
My Son and I are currently working on some "proof of concept" parts for the salt lake racer we are building.  These will them be CNC machined in aluminium.
HP is currently working on a home 3d printer as are a couple of other companies.

[Neil]

thanks guys for your answers.....and by the sound of most which I don't understand........I'll stick to moulding in resin and rubber moulds......that I do understand,

[vnkiwi]

Hi Neil,
Wise choice, my friend.
I have 2 small 3D-printers, I've been playing with for the last year.
Purchased the 2nd one just before Christmas.
Without being able to produce the electronic file needed before you can input anything into the printer, they are just an expensive door stop.
I'm no computer wizz, and am not interested in learning that, but, I am a profesional draughtsman, and have been since way before computers.
I've had to teach myself to use programs outside my normal work environment, and have been looking for the most helpful and cost effective for more than 6 years. Some things in our hobby lend themselves to laser-cutter, and/or cnc-router, and other bits are suitable for 3D-printing. To do it all with a 3D-printer would be madness.
I have successfully printed 60foot hulls at both 1:24th and 1:48th scales, albeit in sections to fit my small print envelope. And my requirement is to produce identical hulls to illustrate the stages in a particular boats life, where the superstructure has changed the appearence of the boat at various refits.
I only print the hulls, and make the superstructures by hand, as one offs.
I could send my files to have the hulls printed in one piece, via such as 'Shapeways' as Pat Matthews is doing, but this involves a more expensive approach.
I produce, for myself, various parts, usually those cast fittings found on the boats I model, and use laser-cutting for others. (don't currently own a laser-cutter).
My thoughts, continue to support these who are casting in metal and/or resin, as its by far the cheapest option for individuals.
Even parts produced on much more expensive machines by the 3D-bureau's still require hand finishing, so unless your a tinker, give it a miss.
And it will be 10years plus before the 'ink-jet' style colour printers become affordable, and the way to go.
Just my experience and thoughts
cheers
vnkiwi

[carlmt]

As you know Neil, I have just had a batch of parts printed at 1:96 for the ferry.
 
To make it cost effective (there is/was a minimum charge dependent on the size of the part) I had to group enough components together to form 10 boats worth.  I, too, am a draughtsman and have been for 30+ years so drawing using a 3D package doesnt hold any horrors for me (I use Sketchup) - the only 'downside' is that I can draw to a very fine accuracy, far finer that the 3D printing machines can print!!
 
If you dont have the skills to draw in 3D on the computer, then 3D printing may not be the way forward for you, as the cost of getting someone else to do the drawings would be prohibitive.
One 'advantage' of 3D is that the components can be printed to any scale - the only criteria is that the files have to be saved correctly.
 
I am still experimenting with ours for Linkspan, and 3D printing may still not be the answer, but it might be the way forward for producing 'masters' to take resin moulds from.
 
Carl

[vnkiwi]

Well said Carl,
Your points and conclusions are similar to what I've found.
I too use Sketchup, (still learning it though), and have settled on this to draw and produce parts.
All of my early drawings are in 2D Autocad, and can import these as a start point in Sketchup.
For hulls, I use Delftship, the boats I've been concentrating on are less than 100ft, and  at 1:48, 1:24, and on occasion 1:12th I can print all from the one full size electronic file. I draw everything full size, 1:1. After a bit of cleanup, most of the parts could be used as patterns for resin casting. I haven't bothered so far, not a prolific modeller. Soon will be commencing to scan hulls and fittings, tried the photo path and 123D etc but to hard, will keep you all posted re scanning and printing results. Just printed a 1:192 scale 63ft HSL hull, and with a light sand with 800 wet & dry will do the job.. My printer can lay down layers of 0.2mm (0.15mm on the new one), which is ok for what I do, with careful orientation.
Have admired your efforts, and your patience, your very good.
Keep up the good work
vnkiwi

[warspite]

Just as a matter of interest and as a novice draughy,  , would AutoCAD and it solids facility be any use to create the files needed or would something like inventor be needed, I assume that an stp file is needed, I mean I can create visualisations of equipment - was just unsure as to how ' dirty ' the files would be (dirty implying that the files are prone to contain error data that will effect the end result).

[carlmt]

As I understand it, whatever 3D drafting package you use, you need to be able to convert the output file to an STL file.
It is this STL file that is read by the 3D printer software.
 
Strangely, the 'full blown' version of Sketchup does not allow STL file creation - you have to export to another package.
Whereas the free 'lite' version DOES allow STL file creation.
 
HTH 

[warspite]

Sorry I though the file extention was stp (oil  ), should have remembered better, I have inventor 7 - I know its old, but I think it has the stl format.

[vnkiwi]

STL it is.
I'm using an evaluation version of full Pro Sketchup 2013 Pro, which didn't have stl export, but there is a free addin which puts 'stl export' into the 'file' pulldown menu. The stl file needs to be 'closed', and not all are.
Different programs do 'stl' in various ways, and I use the free version of 'nettfab' to 'check and fix' all my stl files.
Even then I still get some weird results from the printer, such as if two solids intersect each other, and haven't been made into one solid before export as stl, then my printer cancels those areas which are inside each other and I get a void.
Is not consistant, and I first 'discovered' this when exporting stl from 'REVIT' which I use at work. This also occures from Sketchup.
Any man brave enough to actually use Autocad 3D, is welcome to it, Even Autocad wrote 'inventor' as a simpler alternative into 3D drawing.
So, you need 3 programs to 3D-print.
1. your graphics program to actually make the 3D file
2. a program to either/and/or  create/fix your file to stl format
3. the 3D-printers software to take the stl file and manipulate it to suit / and drive the printer.
As with anything in its infancy, they are facinating/frustrating things to use and you don't always get what you expect in the plotted solid.
cheers
vnkiwi 

[carlmt]

Check out my thread here:
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,28467.msg469754.html#new
 
I have uploaded some photos of the recent parts I had printed.
They were originally drawn in 2D Autocad, then these basic drawings were imported into Sketchup to produce the 3D models and assembled onto sprues as you see in the photos. These files were then converted to STL and sent to the UK 3D print company (3Dprintuk) for them to produce.  They didnt get back to me with any problems, so I assume all was well with the files!!

[grendel]

both autoCAD and its main rival microstation are capable of exporting to a STL file (in the full versions ) autocad has to be in a 3d drafting mode though.
Grendel