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Author Topic: CAD design  (Read 10799 times)

canalpilot

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CAD design
« on: October 23, 2014, 10:12:48 pm »

Does anyone know of somewhere were I can do a course on learning how to do CAD. 
Or alternatively where can I get someone to transfer a plan onto a CAD programme which I can then have cut on a laser cutter.
I have the plans of a 110 foot USCG Island class cutter which I would like to build.  The original hull was designed by Vosper Thornicroft and tweeked by the Americans.  They built about 90 of these vessels, I believe, during the 80's and 90's, some of which are still in service. 
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Neil

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Re: CAD design
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2014, 10:30:33 pm »


Whereabouts on the planet are you canalpilot?
   :-)

if anywhere near Blackpool, then the Blackpool and Fylde college at Bispham runs one........it comes as part of   a course on mechanical engineering, and my daughter is doing it at the mo.
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carlmt

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Re: CAD design
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2014, 11:00:35 pm »

And for someone to transfer your paper drawings onto CAD sufficient for laser cutting would cost you a small mortgage!!!
 
Trust me - I know!!!! I use CAD in my day job, and for the design of the ferry kits, and it is an extremely time consuming process to change a paper drawing into an electronic one.........

mermod

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Re: CAD design
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2014, 05:37:19 am »

Well worth finding out which CAD software your laser cutter prefers, I get files sent to me all the time that are drawn in all kinds of formats when my machine really prefers Corel, even converting from a common DWG file to Corel leaves some weird bits that need to be rectified.

Phill
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TailUK

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Re: CAD design
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2014, 09:14:01 am »

Does anyone know of somewhere were I can do a course on learning how to do CAD. 
Or alternatively where can I get someone to transfer a plan onto a CAD programme which I can then have cut on a laser cutter.
I have the plans of a 110 foot USCG Island class cutter which I would like to build.  The original hull was designed by Vosper Thornicroft and tweeked by the Americans.  They built about 90 of these vessels, I believe, during the 80's and 90's, some of which are still in service.
Your local FE college may run evening classes on CAD software, it's worth looking into.
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Fifie

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Re: CAD design
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2014, 11:15:55 am »

Hi
Try and get your plans scanned at your local graphics company
They usually charge around £8.50 per A0 sheet and out put as a pdf file without any extra work
They may be  able to output them as a dxf  file,this will cost Mega bucks

Once you have your pdf files send them to somebody like me who can convert them to dxf format within a piece of software in minutes

Your main problem is checking the pdf files for errors such as
a/ scale
b/ double lines
etc

I know this because I do it on a frequent basis for my own projects and know how time consuming it can be.

If you want to go down this route let me know and I will help all I can

Alistair
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canalpilot

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Re: CAD design
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2014, 11:22:01 am »

Thanks Neil,
The part of the planet I am on is North Wales, about 70 miles from Fleetwood.
Also thanks to everyone else who has replied, it appears that if I cannot do it myself it can be a very costly business.  It seemed quite simple when I read the articles in the July/August 2014 and Sept/Oct 2014 editions of "Ships in Scale" and the July 2013 and May 2014 editions of Model Boats.
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Fifie

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Re: CAD design
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2014, 11:27:35 am »

canalpilot

Yes it is relatively simple if you know what you are doing

Alistair
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Marmoi

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Re: CAD design
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2014, 01:31:29 pm »

I would also advise checking the drawings carefully before committing to cutting, as I often find errors in plans especially if they are drawn in pre-CAD ages. Ship builders plans can sometimes be the worst as I have had a few from NMM that simply do not go together when I draw them up.


Mark
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grendel

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Re: CAD design
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2014, 01:46:07 pm »

in my experience as a CAD drawing office manager I will agree with the others here, the best way to scan plans in for converting is scanning to a monochrome .Tif format, then converting from that to CAD, though you can convert from pdf the quality depends upon the type of pdf file you start with (vector pdf is good, raster pdf not so good).
I have used several different software packages to achieve a CAD drawing, and without fail all of them needed a lot of hours spent cleaning up the CAD drawing afterwards (removing short segments of line and converting to polylines is just one of the tasks) any text almost always needs to be retyped.
It is almost quicker to insert the pdf image as a background and trace over the top, (still the work of days rather than hours- even for an experienced CAD jockey),
The mechanics of the conversion are simple, the drawing work is simple - its just not quick - as an example - the other day I did a favour for an old work colleague, he wanted a CAD background for a local playing field drawn up so they could get an architect (as another favour) to draw up some proposals for them (they are in the process of saving the fields from development by the local council), just the outline of the field, with surrounding houses rivers and roads, took the best part of 8 hours cleanup work after converting to dxf, for myself, a very quick CAD draughtsman, as I wasn't happy with a line made up of short segments (any more than a laser cutter would be), or right angle corners that weren't right angles.
Grendel
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Marmoi

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Re: CAD design
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2014, 10:44:43 am »

I find by far the best way is to scan, clean up, scale and then trace over with fresh CAD.


I agree that when I tried automatic conversion it actually to longer to clean up the result than start from scratch.


Mark
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Fifie

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Re: CAD design
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2014, 11:07:08 am »

I think if canalpilot could let one of us with experience of this type of work
have a look at one of the drawings it may be able to offer constructive assistance for him
Surely the cost of postage is within a reasonable amount to obtain a professional opinion

There are on this forum quite a few experienced people with the necessary experience.

Grendel, Marmoi, and myself
I have 50 years experience of cad
and have in house all the software required
Unfortunately I do not have an A0 scanner

I agree with Marmoi it is often quicker to revert to redrawing over a scanned image

Alistair
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carlmt

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Re: CAD design
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2014, 11:10:27 am »

If an A0 scanner is needed.......I have access....

Fifie

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Re: CAD design
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2014, 11:13:12 am »

It looks as if its up to canalpilot as to what he wants to do

Alistair
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grendel

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Re: CAD design
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2014, 02:08:48 pm »

I too have full cad software at home, but my scanning capability is now reduced to A3 whereas at my previous job I too had access to a full A0 scanner, I also have the conversion software at home.
Grendel
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Leaky Bottom

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Re: CAD design
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2014, 04:18:23 pm »




I have 50 years experience of cad


I'me very surprised cad has been around for so long, I thought it was a relativley new technology.
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warspite

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Re: CAD design
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2014, 04:29:22 pm »

Some of the earlier CAD programs are just finishing refreshing the screen, that's how slow they were, lol. my first encounter was back in 1979 (though sadley not to use it - the draughy would go for a brew while it refreshed the screen - he drank a lot of tea in those days).
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grendel

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Re: CAD design
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2014, 04:40:12 pm »

I have been doing CAD for a few years (not quite 50) it wasnt that new when I started using it, but it was mid 1990's as the first pc version was on win 3.1, that was a few years in though as we ran it on unix workstations before pc's.
Actually looking up the version histories, it could have been as early as 1990 when I started CAD, which would make my experience 24 years
Grendel
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carlmt

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Re: CAD design
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2014, 09:10:43 pm »

1984 was my introduction to CAD.  MEDUSA running on Prime Minicomputers.
It was a 32bit system initially produced by Cambridge Interactive Systems.
 
Eventually - 1992 I think - I switched to AutoCAD rls12 with AEC and have been using it ever since.........
 
So, 30 years of CAD for me......

vnkiwi

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Re: CAD design
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2014, 09:15:12 pm »

My first CAD, back in 1984, was a program called "Pallette" was a true 2D draughting program written for "mini computers" (these things in a box about 450mm x450mm x600mm, and ran multiple workstations, with 15 layers and we used it for structural buildings, Architect had some layers, structural had another few, while services had a couple, etc.), and was developed by a couple of engineers in Queensland, Australia.
My first experiance of Autocad was version 2.8, back in 1985/1986, which after "Pallette" was crap, but cheap. Is still crap, but everyone got on the bandwagon early, and can't get off. Serious 3D CAD was run on big computers, (tall cabinets standing in their own airconditioned room, and used via multi screen workstations. When the ship builder I was doing contract work for in 1987, purchased the whole system to design and build some fast catamarans for hydrological surveys in Queensland, this was an American system, full 3D with full electronic output to CNC machines in the workshop, and was concidered an old system then. Came in two fully fitted out containers, one the computer room, the other the workstations.
CAD has been around a lot longer than the PC, and a lot longer than most people think.
Still use at work, mainly Autocad owned programs, Autocad 2015, Autocad 3D civil, Revit 2015, and the quickest way I've found is to import the scanned plan as a simple jpg, or some other picture format, and draw over the top. Scanning to raster/vector, is a waste of time, in my opinion, as then you spend hours and hours 'cleaning' it up, and redoing the text.
cheers
vnkiwi  :-))
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Bob K

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Re: CAD design
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2014, 10:16:29 pm »

Going back a long way I was a bit spoilt, running an CAD department with suites of Pro-Engineer on high spec UNIX platforms.  It was a genuine solid modeller, not wire frame skinned, and could even do stress and thermal analasis.  Just the biz for the MoD contracts we were doing.  Spun complex assemblies in real time too.
Even then I never had much success in converting 2D drawings, unless for straight copying.  It was usually much quicker and easier to remodel the part accurately and project 2D views from it.  That way we could also utilise the part in our 3D assemblies.
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canalpilot

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Re: CAD design
« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2014, 11:41:39 pm »

 :(( Very many thanks for all your replies, you guys are really great, but CAD sure looks like a minefield, I may take up KNITTING. {-)
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vnkiwi

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Re: CAD design
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2014, 12:13:46 am »

Hi Canalpilot,
The CAD minefield can be as big or small as you want it.
speak to people who use CAD to do similar to what you want to do, see what they use, cost etc., then pick one and stick with it. The more you practice the better, and faster you will get. Good help is also a blessing, if you can find it.
With my model building, I've mostly used Autocad2004LT, its relatively simple and I've only produced 2D drawings, but then I've been using it a long time, and came from the drawing Board, so thinking in 3D to produce 2D drawings is not a problem for me.
Over the last 6 or so years I've been using Freeship/Delftship off and on, to produce the Hull shapes in 3D, then imported into Sketchup to do the deck houses and fittings. The last 1 to 2 years haven't been able to do any of my hobby drawings due to work and home pressures, and the layoff will mean it will take a little time and practice to get back into things, which is normal.
So decide what you want to do, find a program that will do that within your budget and practice, practice and practice.
Good luck
 :-))
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grendel

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Re: CAD design
« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2014, 01:23:24 pm »

yes CAD is a funny software, there is never just one way to get the result you want, there isn't a right way and a wrong way, some ways are easier for one thing, but make another harder, after 24 years of using CAD on a daily basis I am still learning new, easier ways to do things, new commands. but that said once you make a start you can soon pick up enough to make a good start, plus there is a lot of help out there in internet land  in the form of tutorials and other articles.
Grendel
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slug

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Re: CAD design
« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2014, 02:55:24 pm »

what learned people you are,i was lost at the fist stage...interesting....tony
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