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Author Topic: MACHINING & BUILDING a STUART D10  (Read 59807 times)

ooyah/2

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Re: MACHINING & BUILDING a STUART D10
« Reply #25 on: December 26, 2014, 10:57:05 pm »

Thanks for the advice George. Just to make things clear the Rayman engine has never stopped on me when out on the water even when I throttle it right back, my only problem with lock is at the poolside when starting up for the first time or after stopping to top up the lubricator or change a gas cannister. It seems the needle valve drains are what I need, can you point me  to any information about how they are made and whereabouts on the engine they should be fitted? regards, Ian.

Ian,
With all single cylinder double acting or Twin cylinder engines you need to get rid of the condensate on start up.

Feed in some steam and keep turning the prop over by hand and the condensate will get spat out of the exhaust port as the valve lifts and you will need to do this every time you stop, fill up or what ever to restart the engine.

As Malcolm says the valve may be too tight on the face but I doubt this as it only takes a few thou" lift to let the condensate pass and if the valve was held down so tight not to allow this you would have tremendous ware on the valve.
I have had a look at the drawing and if the builder machined to the drawing there should be enough lift to clear the condensate.

If you want needle valves you will have to make them but I still think that they will be a waste of time and if you want to fit them the cylinder casting of the engine used a Stuart 10V cylinder casting so there will be bosses cast in to fit cock valves or needle valves.

George.
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ooyah/2

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Re: MACHINING & BUILDING a STUART D10
« Reply #26 on: December 27, 2014, 12:53:27 pm »

The next step was to make the bearings from the Stuart extrusion.
Pic No 1
From the book  BUILDING A VERTICAL STEANM ENGINE   I use a small piece of sheet steel x 1/32" thk which is about correct for a packer, this saves the tedious method of setting up the bearings in the 4- jaw for every bearing.
It's now an easy job to machine one end to size, bore thro' and ream take it off of the chuck and with a saw cut it oversize and put back in the 3- jaw and machine to size. I use this process for the bearings.

Pic No 2
 The central bearing is split so I machine the bearing to overall dimensions but don't bore it thro'.
I mill the bearing down to the small pip left when facing.

Pic No 3.
Is the bottom half machined from a piece of brass or cast bronze to the same dia as the top bearing casting, machine it down to half size and the soft solder it to the top half.
this can now be put back into the 3- jaw with the packing strip, bored and reamed, turned around and finished to size.
 
Pic No 4.
Is a piece of 9/32" dia shaft set up with the bottom bearing in place, the top half is lying on top of the base plate.

Pic no 5.
Bearings in place ready for drilling and tapping.
Not forgetting that the central bearing requires an adjusting screw from the underside of the base casting to hold it in position below the top half, this will be done at a later stage.

George
 
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Jerry C

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Re: MACHINING & BUILDING a STUART D10
« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2014, 01:44:13 pm »

That's it. I'm hooked. Bought the book. Do you see any problems attempting this engine on my Taig rig?
Jerry.

ooyah/2

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Re: MACHINING & BUILDING a STUART D10
« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2014, 08:52:31 pm »

That's it. I'm hooked. Bought the book. Do you see any problems attempting this engine on my Taig rig?
Jerry.


 Jerry
 I am not familiar with your TAIG Lathe, is it like the PETOL lathe, nor it's size as to whether it could machine the 10V engine.
 You would need a face plate about 4" dia min, to hold the standard while machining the feet and  a
 4- jaw chuck with outside jaws to hold the base plate to machine the top side and bottom side, also you would need the 3- jaw to be able to take the 1.375" dia of the standards top cover.
 All other parts I would guess that you would be able to make on a small lathe.
 
 Or if your lathe could take my small face plate which is 6" dia and the stub shaft is 1.5" dia you could borrow that to machine the standard and the base .
 Failing all that if you crossed my palm with silver or bacon butties I would machine these parts for you.
 
 George.
 
 
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ooyah/2

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Re: MACHINING & BUILDING a STUART D10
« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2014, 10:05:26 pm »

Jerry,
Found these pics of my face plate.
 
Face plate is 4" dia.
 
Stub mandrel is 1.25" dia.
 
Will it fit your lathe?
 
George.
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Jerry C

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Re: MACHINING & BUILDING a STUART D10
« Reply #30 on: December 27, 2014, 10:41:41 pm »

George, thanks for getting back to me. Peatol and Taig are one and the same. Called Peatol in UK. Lathe spindle is 3/4" x 16 tpi. I don't know what thread form is though.  Supplied faceplate is 3 1/4" diameter. Swing is 4 1/2".  3 jaw chuck will be ok and 4 jaw chuck has reversible jaws so works inside and out. May be possible to make an adapter to enable use of a 4 1/2" faceplate. I'll think of something.
Jerry.
Ps. Just noticed what you meant by stub mandrel. That would fit in my chucks.

AlexC

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Re: MACHINING & BUILDING a STUART D10
« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2014, 05:18:45 pm »

Hi Guy's,
 
Looking good so far George. :-))
 
Jerry, the 3/4" x 16tpi is UNF threadform.
Also are you aware that Taig make a raising kit to increase the max. swing to 6"
 
http://www.taigtools.com/c1250.html
This raises the headstock and tool post.
 
They also have a tailstock raising adaptor to match. Part no. 1251.
 
Not sure if these can be obtained in the UK but should be easily got from the USA.
 
Have a great New Year guys.
 
All the Best.
 
Sandy. :-)
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Jerry C

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Re: MACHINING & BUILDING a STUART D10
« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2014, 05:24:18 pm »

Thanks for that Sandy. Riser kit is available from uk chap.
Jerry.

Mark T

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Re: MACHINING & BUILDING a STUART D10
« Reply #33 on: December 28, 2014, 05:31:30 pm »

Hi George like the others I'm hooked on this!  Definitely one to watch  :-))   I was just wondering like Jerry about your machine pointer?  I would be using a DTI for this task but was wondering if the rough castings prevented this so a more practical solution was needed?  Good luck going forward - Mark

ooyah/2

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Re: MACHINING & BUILDING a STUART D10
« Reply #34 on: December 28, 2014, 06:22:00 pm »

Hi George like the others I'm hooked on this!  Definitely one to watch  :-))   I was just wondering like Jerry about your machine pointer?  I would be using a DTI for this task but was wondering if the rough castings prevented this so a more practical solution was needed?  Good luck going forward - Mark

Hi Mark,
There are quite a few things that I do that are unconventional and the pointer is a very useful tool.
A D.T.I. is no use on rough castings so you have to use your eyes and judgment, the only time that I use the D.T.I. is on machined surfaces.
A piece chalk is another useful tool especially working on castings, if you chalk up the casting after you have filed off all of the flashings you can set it up and turn the chuck over and mark the high spots with the pointer.

I am not a trained machinist and have limited machinery, but after being at this game for some years I have picked up lots of hints along the way, so hang in here and you may see some more, thanks for commenting.

George.
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ooyah/2

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Re: MACHINING & BUILDING a STUART D10
« Reply #35 on: December 28, 2014, 06:29:29 pm »

George, thanks for getting back to me. Peatol and Taig are one and the same. Called Peatol in UK. Lathe spindle is 3/4" x 16 tpi. I don't know what thread form is though.  Supplied faceplate is 3 1/4" diameter. Swing is 4 1/2".  3 jaw chuck will be ok and 4 jaw chuck has reversible jaws so works inside and out. May be possible to make an adapter to enable use of a 4 1/2" faceplate. I'll think of something.
Jerry.
Ps. Just noticed what you meant by stub mandrel. That would fit in my chucks.

Jerry ,
The stub mandrel will go straight into your chuck and you can use the 4" face plate, if you have a 3.24" face plate you should just be able to catch the standards feet on it to allow machining of the top flange.
I don't know anything about your lathe so why would you need raising blocks.
You should be able to machine a 10V on your lathe but could struggle with a D 10 base plate and boxbed.

Sandy may have tried a D10 on this lathe so Sandy knows more about it than me, anyway we are all here to learn and help.

George.
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AlexC

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Re: MACHINING & BUILDING a STUART D10
« Reply #36 on: December 28, 2014, 11:03:32 pm »

Hi Guy's,
 
I have not personally tried a D10 baseplate on a taig/peatol lathe, but a local friend has and he had trouble with it... the corners of the base casting were catching on the bed.
 
The rising block mod would allow this to be done... however, it does place a lot more stress on the crosslide and tool post due to the additional offset created... so much lighter cuts are necessary.
 
I ended up doing his for him on my VMC mill which was quicker than setting it up on the Myford faceplate.
 
If you have milling facilities Jerry then the D10 base can be done with this... the taig will handle the standards ok with a bit of carefull clamping to the 4 1/2" faceplate.
 
Keep happy.
 
Sandy. :}
 
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ooyah/2

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Re: MACHINING & BUILDING a STUART D10
« Reply #37 on: December 29, 2014, 11:22:45 am »

Jerry,
I didn't realise that your machine was so small, don't know if you intend to build the D10 or the 10V so thanks to Sandy for the link to your machine, which engine are you going to build ?

The following dimensions may be of help to you.
The dimension on the D10 base plate  is 4" cape to corner.
The boxbed that the base plate sits on is 4.5" cape to corner.
 
10V
The base plate is 3" cape to corner.
Boxbed is 3.5" cape to corner but has 2- cast fixing lugs which have a dimension of 4" o/all
 
I hope this
helps you to asses whether you can hold it on your face plate and have clearance over the lathe bed.
 
On my last post with pics I missed the one showing my method of filing the base plate to take the bearings using a 3/8" round file.
It would have been much easier if I had a 7/16" ball end cutter to mill out the slots and then a little filing to get clearance.

George
 
 
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Jerry C

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Re: MACHINING & BUILDING a STUART D10
« Reply #38 on: December 29, 2014, 12:45:37 pm »

George, if you remember I just managed to turn the ends of the boiler shell with 25 thou clearance from the bed. I'm going to build the D10. I think I can probably do it on the Taig but if any problems I have the use of an American lend lease lathe. It's all a bit sloppy now but will do the job. I used it to turn the boiler former.
Jerry.

ooyah/2

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Re: MACHINING & BUILDING a STUART D10
« Reply #39 on: December 31, 2014, 06:11:24 pm »

  Pic No 1
The crank webs were cut from my last piece of 5/32" x 1/2" bright mild steel bar( I don't think that this size is now available)
4- Pieces were cut all to the same length and a little over size,
I marked off the 9/32" hole center in each of the pieces , set them up individualy in the machine vice, borored the 9/32" hole and then moved the "Y" table up .375" and bored a 1/4" dia hole, this is for the big end journal which is (/32" dia with each end shouldered and reduced to 1/4" dia with the dimension of 5/16" between shoulders.
The same was done for all 4- webs.
Each of the journals were coated with Loctite 603 and pressed into the webs with a piece of 9/32" rod inserted in the 9/32" hole but not glued to line up the webs.

Pic No 2
When the glue was set the spacing of the webs can fixed to the main shaft with a coating of 603 and left overnight to cure.
 
Pic No 3 and 4
When cured the holes for the taper pins can be drilled thro' the webs and the main shaft.
5/64" taper pins are used and with a light tap with a small hammer they are fixed in place, I only fit the taper pins to the main shaft but not to the big end journals as the 603 will never allow them to move.
 
Pic No5
 With the shaft now fixed solid it can be put into the lathe and the big end journals only can be machined to a radius using very light cuts.
The web ends at the main shaft are filed into a radius and the lot is polished with emery cloth..
The center piece between the webs and the main shaft can now be cut out with a hack saw and the cut ends filed smooth and polished
 
Pic No 6
Is the completed shaft fabricated and glued with 603..
 
Pic no 7.
 
The underside of the base plate has a 1/4" slot milled thro' the central web and is then is bored and tapped 6 BA to take an adjusting grub screw to take up any slack in the underside half bearing in the center support.
 
The shaft runs very true and is slightly  stiff but can be turned over by hand , it just needs some running in.
 
A HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ONE AND ALL.
 
George.
 
 
 
 
 
 
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ooyah/2

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Re: MACHINING & BUILDING a STUART D10
« Reply #40 on: January 05, 2015, 12:02:26 pm »

Having a couple of hours over the New Year festivities I decided to make and fit 3- oil cups to the bearings.
 
Chuck up a piece of 1/4" A.F brass hex I machined down the hex for 1/4" with round nose tool, drill and bore 3/16" x 5/16" deep and drill 1/16" dia x 3/4" deep..
Leave 1/8" of the hex bar and with parting tool machine back for 1/4" and part off, repeat for the other 2 off.
Turn the job around and grip on the hex, machine the end down to 5/32" dia and thread 5/32 x 40 t.p.i.
I had to adjust the length of the threaded part to clear the shaft on fitting as the Stuart drawing shows the oil cup fitting being bored thro' 5/32.
 
After a pleasant couple of hours job done..
 
George.
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frazer heslop

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Re: MACHINING & BUILDING a STUART D10
« Reply #41 on: January 05, 2015, 12:49:30 pm »

Hi George, just quietly watching and learning :-))
Best wishes for the new year
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scoots

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Re: MACHINING & BUILDING a STUART D10
« Reply #42 on: January 05, 2015, 01:18:58 pm »

Hi George,
 
happy new year to you and yours.
nice to see a clever made D10.
 
Alain
 
 
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Ramon

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Re: MACHINING & BUILDING a STUART D10
« Reply #43 on: January 05, 2015, 08:42:14 pm »

Happy New Year George - that's coming on well  :-))


Is it usual to install the engine with the box-bed or can that be left off?
I was planning on installing mine without but on hardwood bearers in turn mounted on an ali sub plate. Would that that make sense?


Thanks for your help so far - looking forwards to the rest of the build


Regards - Ramon
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ooyah/2

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Re: MACHINING & BUILDING a STUART D10
« Reply #44 on: January 05, 2015, 10:07:05 pm »

Hi Ramon,

I have only used the box bed as a mount for the engine .
When I make the fly wheel the box bed lifts up the engine to allow the F/Wheel to be turned by hand.

I will eventually mount the engine the way that you want on an Ali base mounted on 5/16" square Ali runners that I can buy from B&Q, I think I posted a pick of the Ali bed plate at the start of my postings. ( page No 1 post No 10 )

I will start the F/Wheel next and as there is so much power in the D10 I make a taper sleeve for the F/Wheel to fit on the main shaft
I have found that a grub screw to hold the F/Wheel on even with a flat milled on the main shaft it just strips a groove on the main shaft if you switch into reverse when the engine is running, I.E. an emergency stop.

George
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derekwarner

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Re: MACHINING & BUILDING a STUART D10
« Reply #45 on: January 05, 2015, 10:55:59 pm »

George...I would be grateful as time progresses if you could explain more about your proposed taper locking bush for the flywheel to crank on your D10

I do understand and have used keyed Fenner Taper-Lok bushes for over 40 years in industry ...however in scale size are we not again getting back down to M2 or M3 HPGS?

My build has a 50mm diameter webbed flywheel on each end of the 4.0mm diameter paddle shaft, each wheel has two M3 tapping's on either side of the hub [four in total]

The area of concern is that the contact point on the M3 HPGS to the shaft is so small that I share the issue you note

Another complication is if the engine were reversed at speed, I would also be contending with the rotational mass of both 120 diameter paddle wheels ... Derek
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Derek Warner

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Ramon

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Re: MACHINING & BUILDING a STUART D10
« Reply #46 on: January 06, 2015, 07:52:38 am »

'Morning George
 I had seen the pics but it hadn't registered (age thing) - thanks


Note taken re the flywheel - sounds like a split tapered collet as used on prop drivers on I/C engines is required.


Derek - I note that lagging  :-))  very nice. I can see some appears spiral wrapped but what is or how have you applied the areas that appear straight and smooth.


Regards - Ramon
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derekwarner

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Re: MACHINING & BUILDING a STUART D10
« Reply #47 on: January 06, 2015, 08:31:48 am »

Ramon......again without stealing the thread from George

1. the lagging system is from Jerry C.......string & Polyfiller ....sand down in a radial motion & paint
2. my only extension was 1/8" ID Teflon washers to the tube spools prior to the string & Polyfiller installation
3. the spiral wrap is simply an addition of radial string......for tubes on the HP side of the system.....

Derek
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Ramon

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Re: MACHINING & BUILDING a STUART D10
« Reply #48 on: January 06, 2015, 01:36:05 pm »

Thanks Derek - all duly noted - I like the idea of using PolyFilla to fill the ridges.


Back to you George  ;)


Ramon
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AlexC

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Re: MACHINING & BUILDING a STUART D10
« Reply #49 on: January 06, 2015, 05:55:44 pm »

Hi Ramon,
 
Knowing Derek he has probably mixed his pollyfilla with Vegimite to add some strength :D {-) .
 
Keep happy guy's.
 
Sandy. :}
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