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Author Topic: UHF (400Mhz) for submarines  (Read 15162 times)

Davy1

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UHF (400Mhz) for submarines
« on: March 09, 2015, 11:19:51 am »

Hi All,

Some potentially good news for model submariners having difficulty in sourcing non-2.4Ghz equipment.

On the AMS forum, an account of a trial I made at Barrow in Furness yesterday, based on Tim S's work on the SubCommittee Forum.

Still more work needed before it can be seen to be fully developed, but it looks very promising.

David
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Calimero

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Re: UHF (400Mhz) for submarines
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2015, 12:32:53 pm »

Have you tried OpenLRS 433Mhz stuff ?? Though I suspect a license might be required to operate these.

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Re: UHF (400Mhz) for submarines
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2015, 07:50:43 pm »

Why would you use anything else than 27/40 MHz for subs?
The range under water decreases also with 400MHz.
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Tobias

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Re: UHF (400Mhz) for submarines
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2015, 09:00:03 pm »

Low frequency equipment isn't being made any more, or if it is, only on a very limited basis, and from one or two suppliers. Other than that, it's a case of hunting around for second hand units.

Not a great situation for those entering the hobby.

The 433/459mhz frequency systems might not have the same range as the lower frequency kit, but they appear to have adequate range for successful operation, and the units are readily available.

If you go the Hobbyking route with their orange boxes then there is a bit of jiggery pokery in setting them up, however off-the-peg solutions are available with pre-configured settings. The rub is, you have to pay a bit more for them.

Personally I have good kit in 40mhz, and with synth tuning I can find a spare frequency easily enough. Never known an event with more than thirty boats in the water.
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Davy1

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Re: UHF (400Mhz) for submarines
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2015, 09:01:37 pm »

Hi Guys,

I hope that this thread answers your questions. The SubCommittee thread given in the link is the source of it all:

http://www.theassociationofmodelsubmariners.com/t83p30-2-4-ghz-and-submarines-also-433mhz#9267

David F

PS And in my experience at meetings everyone seems to have crystals with the same frequency!
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Davy1

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Re: UHF (400Mhz) for submarines
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2015, 03:35:12 pm »

Some more trials of openLRS software on the UK legal frequency of 458Mhz.

http://www.theassociationofmodelsubmariners.com/t83p30-2-4-ghz-and-submarines-also-433mhz#9334

It all looks very promising for submarine enthusiasts in the UK.

David
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Davy1

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Re: UHF (400Mhz) for submarines
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2015, 02:30:52 pm »

Videos of latest diving trials and use of telemetry using openLRS posted on the AMS Forum.

David F
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Davy1

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Re: UHF (openLRS on 458Mhz) for submarines
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2015, 12:02:41 pm »

Some more information on my trials of openLRS on 458Mhz.

Details over on here:

http://www.theassociationofmodelsubmariners.com/t83p60-2-4-ghz-and-submarines-also-458-9-mhz#9417

What is exciting is that the lost model beacon feature works from underwater. This has big implications for lost model submarine location and recovery. It may supplement or replace audio Pinger technology?

David F
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jarvo

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Re: UHF (400Mhz) for submarines
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2015, 08:12:11 pm »

Hi Davy1


In the earlier part of the post there is a link to Hobby King regarding transmitter module and reciever, would those module fit a Futaba tranny? also it said it needs computer (tuning)  what do you say??


Regards


Mark
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Davy1

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Re: UHF (400Mhz) for submarines (openLRS on 458/8Mhz)
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2015, 12:24:20 pm »

Hi Mark,

Yes that is right.

I have fitted one in my Futaba T9CAP transmitter which takes the Orange TX module for openLRS.

This hardware uses the openLRS software (Stands for open Long Range System).

This is open source software already used a lot by the quadcopter enthusiasts.

In combination with a PC you can change the settings to work on the UK legal frequency of 458/459 Mhz.

It is not too difficult and several people I know  have already done this. It was pioneered by Tim S over on the SubCommittee and SubPirates Forums.

It will be increasingly used by sub enthusiasts who can no longer obtain (the now obsolete) 40Mhz equipment.

If you are just starting in subs I would recommend you look at 458/459MHz openLRS rather than 40Mhz.

(The hardware is cheaper than 40MHz and, of course, still available "new".)

David
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Subculture

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Re: UHF (400Mhz) for submarines
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2015, 05:01:29 pm »

Most radios should be able to use these modules, even pretty ancient ones. Older sets tended to use the NE5044 encoder chip (mid '70's onwards), which pushed down the cost of multichannel radios by providing a 7-channel encoder in a chip format, as opposed to discrete circuitry used in earlier sets.

Some companies produced their own chips, I think Futaba were one, but generally they're easy to convert too as the tuner boards are almost always separate from the encoder section, so it's fairly easy to find the ppm pulse and pick up a a pair of pins from +ve and ground.

The cased modules can be taken apart leaving you with a board which can be mounted inside the case if the set isn't modular. Flyleads can be soldered to the input connector, and the aerail mounted somewhere suitable on the case, perhaps replacing the TX original.

If the set has a buddy box/trainer port it's even easier as the connections needed are all there, and information on pinouts can usually be found fairly easily online.

If you have a transmitter with extended channels that doesn't conform to PPM standard e.g. Robbe F-series or Graunmer MC-series, then you may have issues with the extra functions. These cheat a bit to get the extra functions within the 20ms frame rate of PPM. The way these newer systems work, they don't like it, and tend to play up, so be aware of that if you're thinking of converting one of those sets.
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Davy1

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Re: UHF (400Mhz) for submarines
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2015, 07:21:24 pm »

Or just drop the use of a transmitter entirely and use joysticks as Tim S has demonstrated on the SubCommittee Forum. (He is the originator of all this, by the way.)

But  these are over-complex solutions if you just want to have a go with this new technology.

Your original question was about Futaba modules. Buy the Orange one, plug it in, program it and you are set to go!

David
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Davy1

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Re: UHF (400Mhz) for submarines
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2015, 01:21:14 pm »

The progress to date on this technology and (hopefully!) a simple get you going guide over here:

http://www.theassociationofmodelsubmariners.com/t83p60-2-4-ghz-and-submarines-also-458-9-mhz#9498

Thanks to everyone attending the recent Submarine event at Bournville who saw the system working and showed your interest!

David
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Davy1

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Re: UHF (400Mhz) for submarines
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2015, 10:40:13 am »

Hi All,

I've just put some notes up about re-using an old 35Mhz Futaba Transmitter to connect to an openLRS module via the Trainer plug.

David
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Davy1

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Re: UHF (400Mhz) for submarines
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2015, 04:13:01 pm »

Haydock Park. 29-30 August

The AMS will  have a fully manned stand there over the whole weekend and so it is good opportunity to come along and find out what is happening in subs.

It may be particularly useful if you are interested in the new openLRS systems for subs on UHF. You can come along have a look at it and see it working.

David
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Davy1

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Re: UHF (458Mhz) for submarines
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2015, 03:14:23 pm »

Thanks to everyone who showed interest in the openLRS UHF system which we demonstrated at Haydock Park 2015.

I have just published the result of some aerial trials done at Barrow to see if the receiver aerial is best kept vertical or horizontal in a WTC.

http://www.theassociationofmodelsubmariners.com/t83p105-2-4-ghz-and-submarines-also-458-9-mhz#9799

David
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Davy1

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Re: UHF (400Mhz) for submarines
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2016, 09:14:14 am »

Tim S is doing an interesting teach-in on Telemetry using the Arduino:

http://www.subpirates.com/showthread.php?5271-Custom-Frsky-Telemetry-Hub/page3

I have recently been trying Telemetry at Barrow using my Charlie class sub. So far I've been getting motor temperature, battery voltage and total amps. The first time I've been able to measure these on a working sub in real time so rather interesting. Another useful spin-off for openLRS UHF technology.

David
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Re: UHF (400Mhz) for submarines
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2016, 06:34:29 pm »

I have a multiplex Royal evo 7
That i'am interested in converting from 35mhz synth.
To 400/433/458
This is all new to me and it was suggested by Davy to post questions,
Would anyone know the better system to install into the Tx?

I've been looking at
http://www.tslrs.com/

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WriJpJLHbU0

Regards
Adam


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C-3PO

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Re: UHF (400Mhz) for submarines
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2016, 07:23:16 pm »

Adam,

Some additional info http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/spectrum/information/licence-exempt-radio-use/licence-exempt-devices/ofw311

Do take note of this!!!
Quote
These band are not exclusive to model controllers – they are shared with other users, who are permitted to radiate relatively higher powers, so you must take care when selecting a channel for use in a particular locality.

Regards
C-3PO
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Subculture

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Re: UHF (400Mhz) for submarines
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2016, 09:48:04 am »

Not massively au fait with that set, is the tuner module based?

If not, the you will need to do some tinkering inside. Pretty much all sets can be converted, but some require a bit more geekery than others.

Haven't had any first hand experience with 433/458mhz kit, but converted three sets to 2.4ghz, and the process hardware wise is the same, you have a bit more configuration to do with 458mhz.
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Re: UHF (400Mhz) for submarines
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2016, 10:57:13 am »

Thanks for the link C-3

Andy, the site that i looked at had a connection for multiplex
Trainer lead and the main cable in the back.
The Tx module pops out quite easily, not as quickly a say a graupner mc system.
I'll need to look into it more.
As i said I'm toying with the idea of converting the set.

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Subculture

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Re: UHF (400Mhz) for submarines
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2016, 12:04:31 pm »

The orange modules from Hobbyking can't really be beaten on value. They sell the 100mw Futaba module for under eight quid, which is peanuts for the level of tech you're getting. The JR module is more than twice the price, presumably that's down to supply and demand, because more users are likely to be plumbing for the JR fitting. However if the module has to go inside the case, it doesn't matter, as you should be removing the case anyway.
HK seem to have a bit of supply issue with RX's at the moment, but any open LRS receiver can be configured to work I believe, you just have to ensure they're both running the same frequency hopping code/settings.
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tsenecal

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Re: UHF (400Mhz) for submarines
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2016, 04:01:54 pm »

the guys over at "the associate of model submariners" have an on-going discussion about all of this.  lately they've noted that the OrangeRX JR unit and receiver seem to be perpetually out of stock now.  alternatives have been discussed.


http://www.theassociationofmodelsubmariners.com/t83p125-openlrs-and-2-4-ghz-and-submarines#10277


starting with post #130
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Re: UHF (400Mhz) for submarines
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2016, 01:51:02 am »

Andy,
Thanks for the info, I had a look at the mentioned module for Futaba/Jr
I see nothing for multiplex. The multiplex was picked up just recently brand new old stock from Steve Webb models and if 35mhz was legal for boats and subs i would be using it as it come with
4 synth Rx and of course the Synth module fitted to Tx.

Tim, Davy mentioned the Ams
However anytime i go on the site with I-pad or phone i get swamped with adverts, which is rather annoying.

Out of curiosity i noticed a few people converting a FF9 over to 433
Would a Futaba 10C be worth converting?

I do have two graupner Mc24's one of which is locked and is on going with regards to unlocking.
Second one had been converted to 2.4ghz from 35mhz
I have one 40mhz module and two 35.
I'm currently considering selling these off.

Regards
Adam
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