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Author Topic: Albert the tug - Builders Blog  (Read 55249 times)

Ianlind

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Re: Albert the tug - Builders Blog
« Reply #125 on: January 11, 2016, 02:59:12 AM »

Finally got a chance to wet Albert on the weekend, but my hesitations about the brushless motor turned out to be well founded.
At low, and probably scale speed he toddles along nicely, but when you give him a few more amps he runs a short while then the speed control cuts out and he goes no further. Turn the power off, then on again and all back to normal until it gets a bit warm again and same result.
So there's a couple of options here, and that's get a bigger than the current 30amp controller, or gut him and go back to a brushed motor system.
We'll give him another run on the new found Billabong tomorrow and see what happens, but I'm guessing it'll be a repeat of Saturday.
We spoke to a local farmer who I know quite well, and he has a natural watercourse on his 1200 acres that he's given us permission to run on. It's a bit reedy on one side and probably not suitable for the big boats, but it's close to home ( 11 kms ) and private! This pond is constantly replenished by underground bore water, as it's used as a surface reservoir for his travelling irrigator which is currently watering 360 acres of maize, to be used as silage for the cattle feedlot next door. At the end of the maize crop there is a small plot of sweet corn which we are allowed to raid tomorrow, which is when it's ready for picking!
Unlike you lucky poms, we don't have many council managed model ponds in Australia, and in the country where I live there is little accessible water of any kind, particulary due to the 4th year of drought.


I might just mention here also, that I think the suggested waterline of 35mm up from the bottom is not quite enough, as that's what I've used on my Albert, and with a 6v x 4.5ah battery he sits lower in the water than ideal. Changing to a LiPo probably wouldn't make that much difference!
Ian.
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mark w

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Re: Albert the tug - Builders Blog
« Reply #126 on: January 11, 2016, 03:52:12 PM »

Looks great  :-)) . Mine's still waiting to be started (my daughters done with college, she wants to build it).


Mark
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Ianlind

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Re: Albert the tug - Builders Blog
« Reply #127 on: January 12, 2016, 12:31:04 AM »

G'day Mark,


He does look good whether he's on the water or just sitting on his stand as an ornament. I still have to get the bow fender/pudding, which will really finish him off. And maybe a character figure to fill out the wheelhouse!


Gave him another good long run on the billabong this morning with no issues. Ran him constantly at about half throttle for over 45 mins with no issues and an occasional increase to three quarter throttle with no cutting out like the other day. He was starting to get hot towards the end so I then gave him some full stick which caused him to shut down. So I guess if we don't get him too hot, the current drive system can remain in place. Ideally he needs a reduction of maybe 3-1 so the motor runs more freely. The 50mm x 4 blade prop has a lot of blade area to drive for a small motor!


Ian.
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Tug Fanatic

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Re: Albert the tug - Builders Blog
« Reply #128 on: January 12, 2016, 09:50:38 AM »

I am guessing that it is the controller that is getting too hot but how warm is the motor.

I know that Chinese controllers are often over optimistic in their power ratings but I would expect a 30amp controller to be more than big enough for this model. How much current is the motor drawing?

My initial guess is that the motor is in a near stall condition because it is not really capable of driving the prop. Amps will tell all.
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ballastanksian

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Re: Albert the tug - Builders Blog
« Reply #129 on: January 12, 2016, 09:42:29 PM »

Albert is lookin' good Ian! It is a shame about the issues you are having with your transmission but I am sure you will make it work like it should.
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escipion

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Re: Albert the tug - Builders Blog
« Reply #130 on: April 11, 2016, 04:39:47 AM »

Really a nice job  :-))
Any video in the pond???

Best regards
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mermod

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mark w

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Re: Albert the tug - Builders Blog
« Reply #132 on: April 13, 2016, 03:49:16 PM »

Cool vid's  :-)) . Waiting for my daughter to finish university in May, so we (she) can start on ours  :-) . Nice pond also.


Mark
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mermod

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Re: Albert the tug - Builders Blog
« Reply #133 on: April 13, 2016, 11:50:43 PM »

Hi Mark, you might like to know that in the end a 50mm prop was way too much, in the video I am running a 30mm 3 blade prop with a Hobbyking Donkey 720KV motor and a 2.2ah 2cell lipo, we had a ball that afternoon, just about every kid walking past had a go, we performed a few rescues and although I didn't really keep track of time it seemed to run for ages, we were down there for about 3 hours :)


Phil
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mark w

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Re: Albert the tug - Builders Blog
« Reply #134 on: April 13, 2016, 11:53:12 PM »

Phil,

Great, thanks.

Mark
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mermod

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Re: Albert the tug - Builders Blog
« Reply #135 on: May 22, 2016, 06:55:23 AM »

After receiving some negative feedback on having to shape Albert's funnel from balsa I have decided to now supply that part as a 2 piece vacuum formed part which should make life alot easier for Albert builders :)
I'm in the process of perfecting my vac former and making the master for the funnel and needed a simple project to get an idea of what I could form and what thickness of material I could use and the beginnings of another little kit was kinda born, only early stages but you get the idea.











Phill
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Antipodes

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Re: Albert the tug - Builders Blog
« Reply #136 on: May 22, 2016, 10:43:26 PM »

That's a cool looking boat.  :-)) :-))
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Ianlind

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Re: Albert the tug - Builders Blog
« Reply #137 on: June 13, 2016, 10:52:09 AM »

Back to Albert!
Finally fitted a smaller 35mm 3 blade prop which now doesn't seem to load the little 28mm brushless as much as the big 50mm x 4 blade one did, but it did drop the performance, and I went back to the 30amp ESC which has smoothed the lower rev end of the range, and has also quietened the motor a little, but my Lady still doesn't like the whine of the motor at more than very low revs, so it's out with the Brushless and in with a Brushed motor! Right at the beginning of this saga I was leaning more towards the brushed, as that's what I know best! 
I'll use one of the motors the same or similar to that I used in the Dredge Tender, which also runs the same 50mm x 4 blade prop that was used originally on Albert. This 12v motor comes out of an electric car aerial and is 37mm diam, and running on 6v toddles along very nicely with almost no sound. I could also use a bigger 50mm diameter motor, also out of a car aerial, if it will fit. This motor has heaps of power at low revs, so could be a better choice, dependent on space.
Back in the old days in the early 80's when I first got into this hobby, I collected every 6v and 12v motor I could find, and I have boxes full, so plenty to choose from!
More as it happens.


Ian.
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mermod

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Re: Albert the tug - Builders Blog
« Reply #138 on: June 13, 2016, 12:34:04 PM »

Glad to hear you have Albert up and running Ian, I've had quite few good sails with mine, I found dropping the prop size to be a much better idea also, mind you, I don't get much of a chance to sail it when the kids are at the lake with me :)


Phill
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Ianlind

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Re: Albert the tug - Builders Blog
« Reply #139 on: June 13, 2016, 01:35:24 PM »

G'day Phill,


Albert has been running a good while now, but Linda finds the whine of the Brushless annoys her so it looks like it has to go. Should have done it sooner, but at least its been a bit of a learning curve to get where we are at! Tomorrow it comes out, then I see how big I can fit in its place.
I've been playing with a fast boat that I bought on ebay very cheap. Just the hull, but I put a Brushless in that and wet it today for the first time and it's a ( big ) bit of fun. Goes like all stink on a 3s and Linda loves it, even with the scream of the 2836 1500kv! Canabus has been helping with some input. Check it out under "Unknown fast boat"


How did you go with the floods? Must have been close to your place. Also how about the farm? Did they survive it all OK?


Ian.
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mermod

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Re: Albert the tug - Builders Blog
« Reply #140 on: June 13, 2016, 01:53:44 PM »

The worst hit town was Latrobe, 10 mins down the road where we had our shop, had we still been there we would have been up to our waist's in rapidly flowing water, scary stuff, the yacht club which is just down the road got absolutely smashed, I was down there at about 10am taking photo's of the boats that had been thrown around overnight, others had dragged their moorings and quite a few had washed out to sea, later on that afternoon the marina, along with the rest of the boats tied to it broke loose and washed away.



This yacht turned sideways increased the water pressure against the main pylons


Then this happened
https://www.facebook.com/1426322751000448/videos/1565138307118891/
https://www.facebook.com/1426322751000448/videos/1565138977118824/


Luckily the in-laws farm was safe however some neighbors lost up to 300 head of cattle
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Ianlind

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Re: Albert the tug - Builders Blog
« Reply #141 on: June 14, 2016, 03:27:25 AM »

G'day Phill,


Glad you and the family missed the worst of the floods, but you have to feel for the poor people who lost something or everything. But this is typical of what happens here in this great country. Years of drought, then floods! Just have to try and make sure you live in the right areas that are not affected when the big rains do come!


Back to Albert!
This morning I removed the Brushless and am in the process of fitting a bigger ( 50mm diam ) and quieter Brushed motor. Way bigger than needed, but I have a bunch of them and it fits, so why not?
This will allow the 50mm 4 blade prop to be re-fitted to give quiet, smooth and low speed thrust.
Just now sorry I hadn't done this in the beginning, as it would have saved a lot of time and frustration!


Ian.
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escipion

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Re: Albert the tug - Builders Blog
« Reply #142 on: July 15, 2016, 04:33:18 AM »

Hi Ian!!!
Any picture with whe new motor??

Best regards
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Ianlind

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Re: Albert the tug - Builders Blog
« Reply #143 on: July 15, 2016, 05:36:46 AM »

Hi escipion,


We have has a lot of wet weather over the last few weeks and the river has been in flood, so all boats have been left in the shed.


Weather has improved over the last few days and I might take them out this weekend and get some new images.
Very cold though, and I just checked a water bowl near my back door and there's still sheet of ice on it about 6mm thick, and it's 2.30pm and temperature is now 13.1 C. This morning it was -5.5 C and everything was very white. That's the coldest we've had in years!


Ian.
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steamboat66

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Re: Albert the tug - Builders Blog
« Reply #144 on: July 15, 2016, 11:27:39 PM »

looking at the picture of the two motors, the brushless one is simply the wrong size and KV rating. about half the kv, and a "pancake" motor and it would have been fine, although the "ringing" would still be there. i fly multirotors (not often enough), and they sound better when they're away from me.
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escipion

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Re: Albert the tug - Builders Blog
« Reply #145 on: July 16, 2016, 05:18:15 PM »

Wooow!!!!  :o   Hope you are ok
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Ianlind

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Re: Albert the tug - Builders Blog
« Reply #146 on: July 17, 2016, 07:31:24 AM »

Got a chance to wet Albert with the new brushed drive system today, and the lady is so much happier. She says she's 100% happier, as she enjoys running him now that he doesn't have that annoying brushless whine, which was amplified in the hull and upperworks.
Silent running today, until I hooked up 3S pack in place of the 6V lead acid. Made a big difference to the power, until we screwed the prop shaft sleeve loose! All good now after re-tightening the Alloy coupler half onto the brass split sleeve. I had to bush the coupling half from 5mm to 4mm shaft, as these couplings come with a minimum 5mm bore.
Only issue now is to maybe change the ESC, as the cheap one fitted gives 100% forward, but a lot less astern. Typical car unit. Will probably fit a 110amp EL type ( SE082 ) off Ebay which is what I run in the Dredge Tender, and it runs fine in both directions.


Didn't take any images, as I forgot the camera!
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Ianlind

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Re: Albert the tug - Builders Blog
« Reply #147 on: July 17, 2016, 07:58:19 AM »

Steamboat66,


The little brushless actually worked fine until you really gave it some throttle and it then overheated the 30amp ESC. Put in a bigger 45amp ESC and it performed a lot better, but the noise was the issue. I even reduced the size of the prop to 35mm x 3 blade and it ran cooler and had no performance, but was still too noisy. I was going to upsize to a 35mm Brushless, but the noise would still have been an issue so decided to go brushed. Albert is now running a 50mm diam motor with a 50mm 4 blade tug prop and it seems to be working.
I have the same size 2836 motor in a fast boat, but 1500KV, and it goes like all stink on 3s with a 32mm 2 blade, and the lady doesn't mind the noise on this one, as it helps to keep her awake! She needs to be on the ball with this boat, as things happen very quickly at that speed and I told her that if she puts it in the reeds, she swims for it, as there's no other way of getting it out unless we take the canoe! We don't have the luxury of council run large model ponds like they do in the UK, so we use a pond in the river, which is quite long but not too wide, and a lot of reed clumps as hazards. And it's 26kms from home!


The old rule of thumb with brushed motors was that you used the same diameter motor to suit the diameter of the prop, or close to it, and it seemed to work. And still does!
Most of my tugs are belt driven at around 3 - 1, and one of them runs a 6" x 4 blade using a fan motor out of a car and it's about 3" diam and will run all day on a car battery, with plenty in reserve.


Ian.
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Re: Albert the tug - Builders Blog
« Reply #149 on: September 28, 2016, 11:09:18 AM »


Topic tidied up   >:-o
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