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[Jankers]

After reading the "not Wanted" thread I got the impression that the guy was just using the 'insurance; thing as an arguement.

From my own perspevtive I just cannot understand the need for "insurance" for a model boat.
I used to be a club member and insurance formed part of our membership fee. The only element of the insurance that I agreed with was the fact that the club officials were indemnified against claims arising from the running of the club, this is eminately sensible, but (other than seperate boiler insurance for the staem operators), I simply do not see the need.

My understanding (after i left) is that they have ceased insurance so don't know how they square the 'officials' arguement.

If 'little jonny' happens to poke his eye out on a mast head, my reaction is "why are you allowing your child to damage my boat".  If 'little jonny does not have parents/guardians in attendance then you can show the boat off with the appropriate warnings about touching and getting too close, there should be no need to guard the boat full time although it is probably wise to do so.

If you have several (uncovered) boats by the water at any given time then insurance may be appropriate, but it is probably wise to keep the 'unused' craft covered until in use. Doing this means you are only concentrating on the single craft and can give it proper attention. It also allows you the cover up and wander off for a chat.

Any views?

J.

[Colin Bishop]

It depends what type of boat you have got. Scale models are relatively harmless but if you have a steam plant and the boiler bursts or you have a fuel flare up.... There have also been the occasional instances of batteries exploding. People running IC boats, fast electrics or hydros definitely need third party insurance as these can cause damage or harm if they go out of control.

[Eddy Matthews]

Since the UK is going down the American route of "sue, sue, sue", third party insurance is a MUST! It's okay putting notes on models saying "do not touch", but that has no standing in a court of law...

Anyone who runs a model of any type (IC, fast electric, steam, sail, scale, whatever) is just asking for trouble without insurance, and with such a low premium (literally a few pence a day), why would you want to take the risk?

Regards
Eddy

[Shipmate60]

There are always unfortunate events that are not forseen.
The relatively low cost of insurance shouldnt really be an issue.
Why do we have any other insurance except for the statutory cover?
I have known several claims made against model boat insurance. They did involve pyrotechnics, so perhaps not a fair situation.
It makes me feel "safer" to have it and it isnt expensive is the short answer I suppose.

Bopb

[Made it to 80 (25p Richer now)]

I nolonger belong to any club but still sail my boats so I checked on my househould insurance and I have ?2,500,000 third party cover I checked with my insurer and they confirmed my cover' as a further help when presenting my household insurance to people at shows or when on holiday they included a clause which "included small boats " none of this cost my any more , I would say that most people who have household insurance have a similar cover.
                          Cheers
                             Bob B

[barriew]

It is a condition of our lease to use our water that we have insurance. The Council also insist that anyone using the water is a member of our club. As an official of the club, I certainly wouldn't agree to the club dropping its insurance policy - I am not prepared to be held liable. We did have an incident, before my time, when a fast IC boat left the water and injured a bystander.

What I find annoying is that if I want to join the MPBA I have to pay twice for insurance. They wont offer membership without insurance. I am not a member for that reason, and I know several members of our club have rsigned fromMPBA for that reason.

Barrie

[Jankers]

The club I mentioned runs scale boats, no IC or fast electric, and the water is private, so I can see there may be no need for insurance.

My boats are all scale electric so the only damage should be from poor steersmanship or from a spectator examining the boat a little too closely.

I would agree that for IC, steam or fast electric then Insurance is a sensible requirement.

As far as the Council imposing a requirement for insurance then i think this is beyond their powers, it would make as much sense to require people to have insurance to enter the park in the first place. The "American" arguement does not wash with me, this country should do it's own thing and people should learn to accept resonsibility for themselves, not blame others for their own shortconings'; it never used to be like this and we somehow survived without hoards of lawyers pleeding for business rather than cases.

The cost is also an irrelevant issue, what is important is the need, or lack thereof, for insurance in the first plce.

I may be p***ing in the wind but this subject has a tendancy to raise my 'collar temperature'.

J.

[OneBladeMissing]

Sadly, we do seem to be going down the road of litigation here there and everywhere in this country. We all need to be protected from the stupidity of others.
Back in the late seventies, at a regatta in Wilton Park, Batley, an IC-engined multi-boat conked out quite near the bank. The wind blew it towards the bank and, despite race control telling people over the PA not to touch the boat, one clown held his toddler son out over the water and lowered him down to the boat. The nipper grabbed the exposed exhaust pipe, then swiftly let go of it when his hand got a bit warm! No serious damage done. But such an incident these days would see dad shooting his mouth off and running along to the nearest shysters office.
Like I said, we need to be protected from the stupidity of others.
Even scale boats could be dangerous in some circumstances. Someone could be admiring the craftsmanship, and snag their cardy on a aerial or something. Naturally, it would be the worst thing that's ever happened to them in their entire life, and the distress could only be healed by the application of a wad of money.

[dpbarry]

As a matter of interest whilst reading this thread, is there an organisation similar to the BMFA where you can get insurance.  Who does insurance for Model Boats or Land based Models.

Declan

[Daryl]

What about the MPBA,  on a sperate tack a discussion took place a while ago at my local boat club regarding gas turbine engines. SWAMBC and the MPBA both sang off the hymn sheet in that to get insurance for boat powered with a gas turbine you need to join the BMFA.

Daryl

[ghost123uk]

I hope resurrecting a 4 year old thread is not frowned upon (if so I apologise)

As a matter of interest whilst reading this thread, is there an organisation similar to the BMFA where you can get insurance.  Who does insurance for Model Boats or Land based Models.

Declan

I have BMFA (British Model Flying Association) insurance for one my other hobbies (Control line and R/C model aircraft)
The BMFA insurance DOES include model boats (the wording is a bit odd, but I checked with them, and model boats are definitely covered). The cost is currently £23.

Just for the records 

[red181]

yep thats right, I have BMFA insurance, and it covers boats, helis, fixed wing and cars

[sheerline]

You wonder how far this kind of litigation culture can go sometimes. I can see how you would need insurance even for a small electric boat, especially if you put it on display on a special boating event for people to look at. By displaying it at the pondside or even on a table you would be inviting people to admire it and presumably get close enough to inspect the wonderful detail you have lovingly lavished upon it. Little Johnny snags his new jumper, or worse, pokes his eye out on your aerial which results in a trip to hospital and time off work for the parents. I can see how they might get a bit peeved and expect recompense for their outstanding costs. It all sounds far fetched but it could happen. I hate this rubbish culture where no-one accepts responsibility for their own actions or neglectfulness but thats the way it is now and I don't see it getting easier.

The chaps who run the steam trains near our club have had to fit gauze strainers over their chimney's because one day, a spark from a loco made a hole in a ladies dress whilst accompanying her child on a train ride. So, taking this thinking a stage further, would I be able to sue the local railway preservation society should a smut or spark from their loco destroy my new shirt or suit whilst admiring the engine or indeed riding on the train itself? Some smart legal mouthpiece would probably argue I could but if everyone did this kind of thing we might as well close the country down. Everything has to made so safe these days we are no longer able to enjoy our activities to the full.

I wish common sense would prevail but unfortunately that appears to be a thing of the past and the very phrase my actually become extinct in our language if things go on the way they are.

[dodgy geezer]

.... I can see how they might get a bit peeved and expect recompense for their outstanding costs. It all sounds far fetched but it could happen. I hate this rubbish culture where no-one accepts responsibility for their own actions or neglectfulness but thats the way it is now and I don't see it getting easier....

It's not the people who have an accident who have changed. You can trace this right back to changes in the rules governing solicitors. They are now allowed to tout for business and offer 'no win - no fee' services. You will find that a whole new industry has sprung up - jointly operated by solicitors and insurance companies - to define blame for every activity in which a person feels hard done by, and then to enter into negotiations for a settlement (plus their costs).

You can see their adverts everywhere - each practice trying to encourage you to put a claim in through them. If you do, the first check that will be made is 'is the other party insured?' If they are, it's a win-win. The solicitors just send a few letters over to the insurance company and collect their fee. They don't get a huge amount, so they are interested in high volumes and a quick turn-around.

To be fairly safe from these blood suckers, you should be poor and not insured. Then they won't touch you with a barge-pole...

[sheerline]

Yes, agreed DG, these parasites are swimming it the same veneer of scum which floats on the top end of our society and uses  society itself as one great 'Milchcow' with which to line their pockets and keep themselves out of the mire.
I can't see it ever reducing, once these systems of financial entrapment are established, they normally expand and are usually here to stay.

[elvis]

hi all.
18mth ago i broke my leg crossing a road.
in no time at all, the firms are ringing me up wanting to help me make a claim.
i never called anyone.
i found out later that insurance firms can find out who has been injured, then the sell you case on to law firms so they can try and claim from insurance firms.
but the insurance firm sell to maybe ten firms so you end up with all these ringing you up wanting to help you claim.
crazy or what
all the best
elvis

[Colin Bishop]

I tripped over at Chatham Dockyard recently, no damage fortunately. A nice young lady was quickly on the scene asking me if I needed any first aid (I was tempted) but seemed quite relieved when I said it was my own fault for not looking where I was going.

Colin

[dodgy geezer]

I may be p***ing in the wind but this subject has a tendancy to raise my 'collar temperature'.

I do not get angry with people who inundate me with invalid assertions in order to make money - that's what advertising and marketing is all about. What does annoy me are the people who seem to swallow this rubbish whole and then repeat the arguments at me without thinking as if they were purveying some amazing truth which I had to comply with.

So I don't shout at advertisers who lie to me - they are just doing their job. But I am amazed and deeply concerned that so many otherwise sensible people should drop all their critical faculties when faced with the latest fashionable scare and mindlessly call for the banning of x, or the compulsory enforcement of y, when they really have no idea of what they are talking about....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_Popular_Delusions_and_the_Madness_of_Crowds refers

[djhops075]

Daft but thought I'd post it so you could laugh at me! I tried getting boat insurance for my model ship from a real boat insurance company www.merciamarine.co.uk, guess what the outcome was?

The gent I spoke to was very polite about it, but once he realised it was for a model boat, he wriggled out of it by saying they only insure boats within a certain boat size range and mine was too small

As you can tell I live by the philosophy of asking the question, even if it doesn't always work... I'll just have to buy a bigger model ship next time!!!

[steamboatmodel]

Our Model Boat Club used City owned ponds and pay a permit fee for it, we are also required to carry 3rd party liability insurance with the City listed on it.
Regards,
Gerald.

[Captain Flack]

My club sails on  council owned water and consequently has a public liability insurance imposed as a condition.  I think we pay about £120 per year, as a club, with CIS.    I also  have a personal insurance with the BMFA for £10m cover which costs me £31 per year (I also fly helicopters)  I don't think it unreasonable to have an insurance in todays society.

[dodgy geezer]

I don't think it unreasonable to have an insurance in todays society.

I don't think it unreasonable to have insurance if I am manipulating a dangerous object which has a known track record of causing injury, in close proximity to other people. For instance, a motor car, or a heavy, fast-moving object directed by a radio link.... 

 I do think it unreasonable for today's society to insist on insurance under circumstances where this does not obtain....

[Captain Flack]

In defence of my post I did say "in today's society".  It isn't right that we are expected/required to have a policy to sail model boats, but unfortunately when the water is owned by a third party ie, council etc. they are not going to want the hassle of dealing with issues that are caused by someone else.   That's just the way it is.   
As an aside, how do we fell about an incident where a model power boat left the water at speed and hit a bystander going past on a public footpath? That's when you need insurance.

[dodgy geezer]

In defence of my post I did say "in today's society". 

I'm not sure who you're 'defending your post' against. If it's me, I'm agreeing with you.

If you're doing something inherently dangerous, like driving fast boats next to a public footpath, it's a good idea to have insurance.

But 'today's society' (aka anyone in authority) seems to require insurance, tests, approval and authorisation for everything. I'll bet if the council heard that a group of stamp collectors wanted to meet in a scout hut they would need a full risk analysis before requiring insurance against choking on a Penny Black. That's what I think isn't right....

[cos918]

I sail scale model boats
I never have had insurance. I sail on in parks ,rivers etc. If there is no bi law requiring insurance then all the council can do is ask and you can say no and thee is nothing they can do.
As for shows. so long as you are part of the show ie an exabitior you are covered by the shows own insurance.


John