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Author Topic: What batteries?  (Read 6822 times)

Brian60

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What batteries?
« on: January 09, 2016, 02:52:07 pm »

On my next build the propulsion will be a 540 motor, it doesn't have to push the ship fast, in fact slow is good in a tramp steamer {-) There will be next to no electronics or other gear, just the motor, the receiver, an esc and one servo for the rudder.

So what batteries? I'm  wanting to move away from using SLA but apart from NiCd's I have not used any of the modern batteries available what are your recommendations please.?

Ideally the smaller the better, voltage anywhere from 6 to 12v doesn't matter and of course I'll need a charger to go with them, again recommendations please.

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Re: What batteries?
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2016, 03:57:51 pm »

Nimhs obviously.
Lot less hassle than Lipos.
Much like nicads only much better.
Large capacity 7.2 packs are available
along with delta peak chargers.
Look at Component Shop for all the gen
and batteries and chargers that won't break
the bank and are top quality.


Ned
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ballastanksian

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Re: What batteries?
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2016, 07:29:38 pm »

I bought a 3300Mah 7.2 volt battery from Component shop and it kept its full charge from new until I tested my charger last weekend.

I bought a Turnigy Accucell 9(sic) from them at the same time and it did what it said on the book so worth having a conflab with them or Inertia (Dave) about equipments etc for confirmation.
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Brian60

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Re: What batteries?
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2016, 09:43:47 pm »

Thanks guys, I'll take a look in C.S

malcolmfrary

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Re: What batteries?
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2016, 08:54:46 am »

A 540 in a tramp steamer?  If it isn't well geared down, a 545 might well be better.
A cargo boat is one of the best suited to SLA, having usually a big square hold, fairly modest performance and a lot of weight carrying ability, but NiMH batteries can be built up into a very similar shape (or pretty much whatever shape the site demands) and offer very easy care.
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inertia

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Re: What batteries?
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2016, 09:15:23 am »

Brian
If you're looking at CompShop's website then check out the 555 motor which, on 12v, would be ideal for your model. It fits the same mount as a 540, too.
DM
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Brian60

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Re: What batteries?
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2016, 04:06:50 pm »

Thanks for the input on the motors guys. I'm not about spending loads of cash on this project, so for the most part I am using up parts that I already possess, hence it is also receiving my old 40mhz set as well, its getting one esc and one servo for the rudder, that is it. While I could use a lead acid - especially ballastwise, I want to go with something less obtrusive then sticking one of those in a hold space, al will be revealed when I start a build thread.

Subculture

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Re: What batteries?
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2016, 07:46:24 pm »

I find it surprising that that people find NiMh easier than lipo.

I always found them to be an utter nuisance, as they self discharge at a high rate and offer poor performance in comparison.
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inertia

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Re: What batteries?
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2016, 11:20:40 pm »

I find it surprising that that people find NiMh easier than lipo.

I always found them to be an utter nuisance, as they self discharge at a high rate and offer poor performance in comparison.

LiPo batteries had some (undeservedly) bad publicity on their initial appearance from the aeromodelling fraternity, many of whom I would suggest really ought not to be in charge of anything even remotely potentially dangerous - especially a Send/Enter key...
DM
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essex2visuvesi

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Re: What batteries?
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2016, 12:29:37 am »

LiPo batteries are good PROVIDED you understand their needs and limitations.


A little research is all that is needed and they can be as safe as any other power supply.
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Re: What batteries?
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2016, 06:48:46 am »

I have changed the batteries in a couple of boats of mine from NiMh to Lipo and have noticed improvement in performance and run time,as these boats are deep V  types that need to get up on the plane it has been worth the cost,as to whether I will change anymore is doubtful at the moment as I now have so many spare batteries that need to be used,I didn't have to buy a special charger as I already have a Fusion ethos lx41b pro and a Turnigy Accucell 6 and I have used these on lipo,'s before,if you follow the instructions about charge, discharge and care of these batteries, I think you will find them as safe as any other with the advantage of being smaller and lighter ideal for small fast boats.....Ray.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: What batteries?
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2016, 08:45:47 am »

Correct me if I am wrong but I understand that good practice is to remove lipos from your boat and place in a protective bag for charging. In my scale models the NiMH batteries sit in the bottom of the boat as ballast with the ESC, RX etc. mounted above them so they are pretty much permanently wired in and not easily removed.
I can of course see the logic of using lipos in fast models where the battery packs are more accessible for swapping out and recharging.
So it is horses for courses really. NiMH can be the right choice depending on your type of boat. They are also cheaper with more charge cycles than lipos.
Colin
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Re: What batteries?
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2016, 09:09:46 am »

How many people remove the batteries from their laptop, mobile, tablet etc. when charging?

They all use lipo batteries.

Any battery has the potential to be a hazard. I've always found lithium technolog to be the easiest to look after, cheapest long term and offers far superior performance.

A good rule of thumb with lipo is never charge above the current rating of the cells e.g. 1c.
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sparkey

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Re: What batteries?
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2016, 09:13:56 am »

As you say Colin,horses for courses,I use all types of batteries for different boats after all it is the same electricity,the three reasons I have tried out LiPo's in these boats is,I can get a bigger capacity battery for the same size and up the voltage a little to give better performance(9000mha against 5000mah and 14.8v against 12v) and that the NiMh were coming to the end of their life,I know it may be a pain to remove batteries to charge them but it is not difficult with these boats( I would not have even bothered changing if the boats were tugs or the like),anyway you would not learn anything if you don't try things out and I am always up for a challenge,I will let everybody know how I get on after a summer of sailing most weekends,so the jury is out as to whether it was a good idea or I have wasted my money.......Ray.   
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malcolmfrary

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Re: What batteries?
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2016, 09:18:39 am »

Having seen way back, a lifeboat have its performance transformed, both speed and run time, buy changing from a lead acid brick to a much lighter is lower voltage and capacity NiCad pack, I can see that a similar improvement in a performance boat will happen changing to lithium. 
But the OP did mention a tramp steamer.  If there is going to be a lot of internal detail exposed to view, there might be limited space for batteries - I can see a good case for using lithium there, but otherwise, NiMH will do the job nicely.  Early NiMH did have a reputation, rightly or wrongly, of discharging itself, probably got from the groups that DM mentioned.  I have not noticed that happening, certainly in packs bought in the last two or three years.  Then again, I got them from reputable dealers.
Lithium batteries do need proper care.  When fitted into consumer devices, they are in an environment controlled by the manufacturer (lots of YouTube footage showing what happens when they get it wrong, laptops, airliners etc).  In the case of a model boat, the builder is the one providing the environment, and might not have the expertise of, say, Samsung or Toshiba.  Any energy storage system needs proper care, especially anything that delivers DC at potentially very high current. 
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Colin Bishop

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Re: What batteries?
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2016, 09:38:34 am »

There is also possibly the point that many modellers buy on price alone and get their batteries and chargers direct  from China - where the exploding hoverboards come from! As Malcolm says, Lipos in consumer devices are subject to very stringent design requirements to keep them safe. That is not the the case in model boating where it is very obvious from posts and questions on the various forums that many people do not fully understand electrickery matters.

Lipos can be quite safe if you know what you are doing and have good quality kit but they have been known to set aircraft on fire! And one of the major laptop manufacturers had a spate of exploding laptops not so very long ago.

Colin

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Brian60

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Re: What batteries?
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2016, 05:32:18 pm »

Well it seems I'm taking out the 540 motor and installing a 545 afterall :-) I dug out the box that contained my 40mhz radio gear and inside it was a Mabuchi 545 and also a 550, so the 545 is getting swapped in to the hull. I only unpacked it because I'm at the point of needing to install the servo for the rudder. So as luck would have it {-) lucky as this box had not been opened for at least 15 years and checking the battery pack in the tx it still had 1 volt in it :} Its now on charge to see if it will take the 9.6v and hold it, being so old we are talking about a NiCd pack here.

Netleyned

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Re: What batteries?
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2016, 06:18:50 pm »

If the volt is all you have in the pack it looks likely
the pack may not be recoverable.
I would try a few slow charge/discharge cycles to see if there
is any chance of salvage.

Best of luck Brian.

Ned
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malcolmfrary

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Re: What batteries?
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2016, 06:29:15 pm »

Like Ned said, at that age it might not come back up, and even if it does it might not be able to deliver the required current, either at all or for any length of time.  If you count your time as money, a new pack would make perfect sense.
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Brian60

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Re: What batteries?
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2016, 07:05:45 am »

It's dead. The meter shows it at 9.6v while connected to the charger, unplug it and the volts slowly drop back to 1volt. Still, I'll desolder the pack and put in a standard carrier with some single cell nicads I have left over from the garden light replacements 1.2v 1200ma/h.

Hande

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Re: What batteries?
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2016, 11:43:47 am »

I am building a tug - obviously going deep - and ballast is required.
Originally, I have been thinking lead battery.
After reading this thread, I'm wondering, should I use NiMh or Lipo plus dead weight rather than a lead battery.


I know you have opinions - shoot!

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Hande

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Re: What batteries?
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2016, 11:52:28 am »

About motors 540, 545, 555.
Please elaborate on what characteristics are you looking for, when planning for a slow boat.
Exactly my case.


I have already pondered:
- quiet (I'm planning to get a diesel sound)
- gear down, as I don't expect any motor to run slow natively
- 6 volts to limit speed



What is required of the esc?


Cooling of the ESC is essential and I had thought air fan and ventilation.
Water cooling is much more efficient, I assume?

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malcolmfrary

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Re: What batteries?
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2016, 02:32:47 pm »

It's dead. The meter shows it at 9.6v while connected to the charger, unplug it and the volts slowly drop back to 1volt. Still, I'll desolder the pack and put in a standard carrier with some single cell nicads I have left over from the garden light replacements 1.2v 1200ma/h.
The 9.6 was probably the charger output that was being measured.  The reducing voltage observed was probably just the battery no longer being a battery but effectively a leaky capacitor.
About motors 540, 545, 555.
Please elaborate on what characteristics are you looking for, when planning for a slow boat.
Exactly my case.


I have already pondered:
- quiet (I'm planning to get a diesel sound)
- gear down, as I don't expect any motor to run slow natively
- 6 volts to limit speed



What is required of the esc?


Cooling of the ESC is essential and I had thought air fan and ventilation.
Water cooling is much more efficient, I assume?


I have never yet seen any model tug that needed any cooling unless a totally inappropriate combination of ESC and motor was fitted.
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essex2visuvesi

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Re: What batteries?
« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2016, 02:47:35 pm »

About motors 540, 545, 555.
Please elaborate on what characteristics are you looking for, when planning for a slow boat.
Exactly my case.


I have already pondered:
- quiet (I'm planning to get a diesel sound)
- gear down, as I don't expect any motor to run slow natively
- 6 volts to limit speed



What is required of the esc?


Cooling of the ESC is essential and I had thought air fan and ventilation.
Water cooling is much more efficient, I assume?


Hi Hande
I have sent you a PM rather than take this thread off topic
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cos918

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Re: What batteries?
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2016, 05:12:14 pm »

I am building a tug - obviously going deep - and ballast is required.
Originally, I have been thinking lead battery.
After reading this thread, I'm wondering, should I use NiMh or Lipo plus dead weight rather than a lead battery.


I know you have opinions - shoot!


One line of thought that I used on my Ferry is . LIPO is a light weight battery. So in your case get a GOOD quality Lipo say a 3C 6000 mah.
Note if you are fitting a bow thruster thruster 3C 11.1V is to high . A 2C 7.4v would be the max for the bow thruster. You could all ways run X2 batteries in the boat 1 3C for main propulsion and a small 2C for bow thruster. My ferry has 3 different batteries.
The big benefit of LIPO is they are light meaning you can get more lead sheet in making you boat more stable


john
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