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[Geoff]

As a thought whilst it may not fit inside a 15" gun turret would it fit inside the barbette below the turret and pipe the smoke out?

With real ships there were several levels within the barbette which rotated with the turret so it follows full time practice.

Any chance of taking it apart so we can see what's inside?

Cheers

Geoff

[C-3PO]

What about all these new e cigarettes units - any good for source of smoke

Don't know the first thing about them but just a thought

C-3PO

[essex2visuvesi]

What about all these new e cigarettes units - any good for source of smoke

Don't know the first thing about them but just a thought

C-3PO

I'm playing with one of these at the moment.

[C-3PO]

Musical e-cigarettes - amazing

[tigertiger]

The best smoke effects could only be produced by a chemical reaction such as black powder detonation and or another reaction just to create smoke, and as both of you have mentioned requires a liscense for the former, while the latter is illegal due to the compounds required.

Disco smoke machines use smoke fluid. You can get this on Amazon, maybe even Maplins.
You could consider building a smoke machine in the bowels of the ship, and then generate smoke in some kind of chamber, maybe pressurised.
You could then consider running pipes to each gun barrel and using a system of RC of valves to allow the smoke to escape on demand.


Just thinking out of the box.

[Geoff]

That's exactly what I'm doing with Iron Duke, but the devil is in the detail! Have a look at the ID thread and there is a picture of a working prototype.

Cheers

Geoff

[tigertiger]

Next up was the sound file.  The usual small speaker proved nowhere near adequate for this low frequency high air volume sound. 

Have your tried building a base box?
Sorry if you already know this. Try putting your small speaker onto the front of a cardboard box, and hear the difference. Also for a bit more base, try mounting the speaker backwards.
Give these a go. If you get a more pleasing result you can build a sound enclosure into your hull. Something like this,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHV0KgqpXPc but smaller obviously.
Or this, cut in half.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpCwoYOZi2o
You can also buy small speakers for iPhones that are single speakers with huge base response. Like this one. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kinivo-ZX100-Portable-Rechargeable-Resonator/dp/B004HHICKC/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1456485759&sr=8-5&keywords=mini+speakers

[C-3PO]

E2V,

Re e-cigarettes - How do they work -  is it as simple with these things that the liquid is "burnt" on a hot element or atomised and the liquid is bought into the burning/atomising chamber when you suck on the cigarette?

If so would it be possible to remove the device and place in a gun barrel perhaps?

C-3PO

[Bob K]

Thanks all.   

The problem with big bass speakers is they need a large aperture to move air waves outside, constrained inside a model ship most of the effect gets baffled out. 
The turret platform on a low draught big monitor is at the top of a very tall barbette to contain all the gun and munitions handling.  Too much weight high up is a problem.
The e-cigarette element still needs to be 'drawn' then expelled to generate vapour.
I shall keep beavering away, hoping the magic light bulb will appear above my head. 

[essex2visuvesi]

Thanks all.   

The e-cigarette element still needs to be 'drawn' then expelled to generate vapour.
I shall keep beavering away, hoping the magic light bulb will appear above my head. 

I was thinking of some kind of bellows that draws the "smoke" in then then forces it out

[Martin (Admin)]

Re e-cigarettes - How do they work -  is it as simple with these things that the liquid is "burnt" on a hot element or atomised and the liquid is bought into the burning/atomising chamber when you suck on the cigarette?
If so would it be possible to remove the device and place in a gun barrel perhaps?
C-3PO

I find this bloke great viewing! - https://youtu.be/H5QtGerJ_tI

[unbuiltnautilus]

I was thinking of some kind of bellows that draws the "smoke" in then then forces it out

A suggestion I have nicked from a fellow member building a 1/6 scale Mk1 Tank. Use the speaker box as your bellows...
It is not perfected yet though

[C-3PO]

Same guy Martin suggested but a different video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC878A2puH0

I think this looks promising. All you would then need is a electronic device to trigger the sequence - an Arduino could flash/flicker an LED / kick a servo to simulate recoil / trigger mp3 sound and turn on/off the e-cigarette & pump all to the timings of your choice

C-3PO

[Bob K]

Thank you Martin for both the recoil servo link video, and the e-smoke instructional video.
Thanks also to C-3PO for the second video (was an 'up next' from Martin's) showing a possible solution using a micro pump.  Food for thought !

[Geoff]

I think there are some very good ideas here but think the problem with the air pump may be two fold:

1) They appear to work on 240 volts rather than 12 volts - can you get a 12v version?

2) The volume of air they pass seems to be quite low so the smoke may just kind of drift out the barrel rather than shoot out.

Item 2) is one of the issues I have with my design for Iron Duke. If you then use a higher pressure air pump you get back flow but I'm very interested to see how this works

Cheers

Geoff

[Geoff]

Here's a picture of the prototype system for ID using a PC fan as the air pump.

Cheers

Geoff

[C-3PO]

Pump is 6volt - the guy states that he only uses it a 2v

It may be that the sequence needs to be turn on e-cigarette and then some microseconds later when it's started smokin the pump kicks in at 6v then reduced quickly to 2v so you get a plume of smoke.

Search eBay "Vacuum Pump Small DC" - may be aquarium pumps would also be worth investigating

C-3PO

[C-3PO]

What - not enough smoke :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iDJAhVrdA8

Only draws 150-300 amps according to video spec

C-3PO

[Bob K]

Eeem, we're only trying to simulate gunfire, not the sinking of HMS Indefatigable at Jutland.

Extreme overkill, as quoted in The Italian Job . . . "You're only supposed to blow the bloody doors off!"

[Geoff]

You can't have too much smoke to simulate gunfire! That would be about right for a full salvo at 1/96 scale!

[C-3PO]

Can you actually believe a human would want to do this to themselves

On a different note - if the 6vdc pumps are worth investigating you could always chain a few together with Y adapters to get more airflow - although the video guy suggests running at 6v was to much - not exactly sure why - maybe just thin smoke

C-3PO

[Bob K]

Many thanks for all the positive and helpful responses.  I am going for a change of plan on this.

I am dropping the pellet firer, too large, and it's the effect I am more after.
I love the simple servo actuated recoil on the video clip Martin posted.
The second video link from C-3PO showing vac pump and E Cigarette looks to have significant possibilities, and is compact.  I bought a couple of slim disposables to run trials with.
Can I fit a small 'ultra bright' wide angle LED in the barrel without interfering with the smoke?
Good luck with the fan system Geoff.  They do blow Misters very effectively but not sure how they would work in a 'closed' chamber system.

More news as trials progress.

[C-3PO]

How about these for recoil - video seems to use a 12volt one but I found Solenoid 5volt £5

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azZ3yuNLfj0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GhIPVjKwX0  - this one includes free sounds effects :) - would be great for a machine gun - mount a sounding board behind the solenoid!

More kick than a servo

RE THE SMOKE
This video shows the strange behaviour of the smoke in a cup at about 2minutes 30 seconds in ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQ6oISHtRAA ) etc. It might be possible to start smoke production into a holding chamber, then switch on the air pump(s) at 6v to get a quantity of smoke to be expelled in a burst , the air pump then drops to 2 volts to give a slower supply.

Would be neat if you could fit and RGB led in the barrel - you could then have a blue or white or yellow or, or, or what ever you want flash. You can power an LED with a PWM signal (not receiver PWM signal)  so you can vary the brightness in the sequence as well.

Bob what is the likely internal diameter of your gun barrel?

C-3PO

[Bob K]

Bob what is the likely internal diameter of your gun barrel?

C-3PO

4 mm at 1/96.  May have to make it a tadge larger. Hopefully the recoil can be made to generate some 'pulse' pressure.

[C-3PO]

Maybe fibre optic cable to get illumination near the end of the gun barrel?

Maybe you could also get away with adding some discrete very high intensity LEDS disguised near the gun - the eye may not be able to determine the fact that the flash did not come from the gun barrel - especially across the water.

C-3PO