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[Martin (Admin)]

 
Well I've Never been a fan of Shakespeare ever since it was forced down our throat in school.
Couldn't understand the language, couldn't understand the settings, couldn't understand the ethos, etc, etc. therefore completely alien to me. I even remember being in a school play, A mid summer night's dream(?) .... completely incomprehensible!
I gave up on Shakespeare pretty quickly and never touched it after school.

The BBC have been running a Shakespeare season ( 400 birthday? ) and again for me "not interested."
Then I noticed that Bernadette Cucumberpatch Benedict Cumberbatch was in it as Richard III.
I Like Benedict Cumberbatch as an actor, I find him quite interesting so I thought I'd give the play(s) a shot over the weekend.

Must say thoroughly impressed and completely hooked on the story.

The BBC TV adaptation was done as a realistic reenactment, which immediately gave the right setting & context.... after a few minutes I was hooked!

So my first question is this,
How historically accurate are the War of Roses plays?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07bqgjn/episodes/player

[Colin Bishop]

Probably not very accurate Martin, but neither are plays & TV programmes today. However, now it has got your interest you could read a book or two on the period to get a better understanding of the period.

I quite agree with your comments about not liking it at school. I think that a lot of the classic literature was forced on people at too young an age for them to appreciate it and resulted in turning them off the subject altogether. I hated Charles Dickens at school, I found it utterly boring and old fashioned and have never felt the slightest interest in returning to his work since despite all the TV adaptations (except Doctor Who of course!).

But sometimes you do get something in later life which sparks your imagination and prompts you to have another look and you find that it is all now much more understandable and enjoyable.

Colin

[Bob K]

I loved this series, even bought the 4 episode 2012 box set.  Benedict was amazing in the role of Richard III.  "Now is the winter of our discontent", and "A horse, a horse, my kingdom for a horse."

However - You must remember that although accurate to Shakespeare's play, it is historically biased to show all the Plantagenant Kings as nasty, warped and evil, especially Richard.  The Bard's patron was of course Elizabeth I, so it was necessary to promote the cause of the Tudors usurping the throne in a light sympathetic to the Tudors.

Richard had a mild spinal deformity (as evidenced on finding his remains) and not the deformed doubled up hunchback as in the Play.  He was clever, able and very brave (even Shakespeare admits this).  He died whilst trying to lead a group of knights to directly attack Henry Tudor, and came within a swords length of doing so in the final battle, before being cut down from behind.

No one knows what happened to the Princes, and it is possible that Henry 'removed' their threat to his succession. 

Interesting period of history.  The victors usually re-write the history books of course !

[Colin Bishop]

I hope that quote won't apply at Mayhem next week:

'Now is the winter of our disco tent' 

Colin

[Bob K]

PS:  I too did not like Shakespeare at school, but have come to develop a keen interest in history since then - especially naval history.

By far my favourite scene from Shakespeare is Kenneth Branagh's version of the famous St Crispin's Day speech before the battle of Agincourt . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-yZNMWFqvM

[wbeedie]

The only time I liked Shakespeare, was the fishing tackle back in the late 80s, oh you mean the conglomeration of writers not angling gear

[eddiesolo]

I think too much emphasis is placed on Shakespeare, he was a outstanding writer for his time-but that is the point-he lived in a time period very much distant from our own. Although many of his plays, writings etc have modern variants-I mean 99% of all fiction, books and films, are just variations on a theme, they can be hard to swallow in this day and age. I can understand his importance as a writer but not appreciate his work in a modern context.

[/size][size=78%]In fact, I have no idea what the hell I am on about [/size] [/size][size=78%] [/size]

[Martin (Admin)]

After watching the 1st three hours of 'War of the Roses', Shakespeare is one hell of a suspense writer!
Characterisations, brilliant. Really knows how to draw an audience in.
The Summerset's head scene frightened the life out of me!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07cc779/the-hollow-crown-the-wars-of-the-roses-2-henry-vi-part-2  ( about 8:30 in)

I even found the play on-line somewhere and was following it line by line!

[joppyuk1]

He messes around with characters, (their ages, putting them somewhere they weren't, etc), but modern historical novelists do that still. The best thing is to watch the plays just as that, forget the facts, the basics are there. I've enjoyed the whole 'Hollow Crown' series. Some of his other plays are quite gory as well, as someone said in a different forum, 'add a few dragons and you've got Game of Thrones'.

[tigertiger]

Coriolanus was turned into a film in 2011.
It is set in the Balkans, but the basic plots still are easy to link to the Roman Empire. A good war story, if you like that kind of thing.


I think it was Shakespeare's last play, certainly one of his lesser known. Synopsis here http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1372686/
Youtube links to how you can watch the movie here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8M1TzelNAFQ


Trailer here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qj25TGlsYTA

[NFMike]

Shakespeare, Chaucer, poetry, jazz .... all just pretentious 'emperor's new clothes' stuff

[furball]

We sat and watched Patrick Stewart in Macbeth... very powerful stuff.


Lance

[Martin (Admin)]

Shakespeare, Chaucer, poetry, jazz .... all just pretentious 'emperor's new clothes' stuff

Well that's what I thought until I saw it done properly .....

[Rob47]

Cumberbatch is actually related to King Richard III

[TheLongBuild]

Cumberbatch is actually related to King Richard III

2nd Cousin 16 times removed.  And about to play R III in a new series

[TailUK]

Well I've Never been a fan of Shakespeare ever since it was forced down our throat in school.
Couldn't understand the language, couldn't understand the settings, couldn't understand the ethos, etc, etc. therefore completely alien to me. I even remember being in a school play, A mid summer night's dream(?) .... completely incomprehensible!
I gave up on Shakespeare pretty quickly and never touched it after school.

The BBC have been running a Shakespeare season ( 400 birthday? ) and again for me "not interested."
Then I noticed that Bernadette Cucumberpatch Benedict Cumberbatch was in it as Richard III.
I Like Benedict Cumberbatch as an actor, I find him quite interesting so I thought I'd give the play(s) a shot over the weekend.

Must say thoroughly impressed and completely hooked on the story.

The BBC TV adaptation was done as a realistic reenactment, which immediately gave the right setting & context.... after a few minutes I was hooked!

So my first question is this,
How historically accurate are the War of Roses plays?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07bqgjn/episodes/player

Shakespeare did a convincing hatchet job on Richard III due to the play being written to entertain Queen Elizabeth the First who was a Tudor descendent of Henry VII.

For Will's best work read the Sonnets.

"My mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun;
Coral is far more red, than her lips red:
If snow be white, why then her breasts are dun;
If hairs be wires, black wires grow on her head.
I have seen roses damasked, red and white,
But no such roses see I in her cheeks;
And in some perfumes is there more delight
Than in the breath that from my mistress reeks.
I love to hear her speak, yet well I know
That music hath a far more pleasing sound:
I grant I never saw a goddess go,
My mistress, when she walks, treads on the ground:
    And yet by heaven, I think my love as rare,
    As any she belied with false compare."

Sonnet 130