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Author Topic: Fault finding  (Read 7595 times)

boxer

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Fault finding
« on: June 09, 2016, 08:31:38 pm »

bought a Greek fishing boat locally and trying to get it working


2 6 volt batteries slaved...showing 6.2 volts on meter


Hitec 27mhz receiver
Metro irks viper marine 15 amp esc


Futaba transmitter


Turned on and tried to bind but no response at all ...help please can provide pics if needed
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dougal99

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Re: Fault finding
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2016, 08:56:09 pm »

27Mhz radios do not bind. You need the appropriate frequency crystals in the receiver and transmitter. are the batteries in parallel or series. If the latter you should be getting 12 volts not 6. Pictures would help
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boxer

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Re: Fault finding
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2016, 09:06:10 pm »

Batteries are joined as such...took a reading from each battery
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Fault finding
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2016, 09:23:03 pm »

Can't see from the picture how the batteries are connected, whether in series or parallel.  If in series, 6.2 volts is disastrously low (because it should be about 13+ volts), if in parallel, just "low", but there should be enough to cause the ESC to light up on switch-on. 
Switch the TX on first, then power on the boat.  The BEC in the ESC should power both the receiver and the servo - the servo will probably twitch.  IF the TX throttle channel stick is centered for neutral, the ESC lights should flash for a few seconds then settle to both on if I remember Mtronics correctly.
If the ESC has not been set up, or needs to be reset to the transmitter, have a look at their website for instructions for that model.  Teaching the ESC what to expect is often confused with binding receivers, but is not the same thing at all.
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boxer

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Re: Fault finding
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2016, 09:31:20 pm »

Black wire from nearest battery goes to red terminal on back battery. Then from black terminal on back to red terminal on front battery. Seller said they were 6volt pb batteries



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Tug-Kenny RIP

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Re: Fault finding
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2016, 09:43:49 pm »


That sounds like a dangerous short circuit to me.

Have you got a volt meter  ?

ken

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boxer

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Re: Fault finding
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2016, 09:47:05 pm »

Yes I used one to read each separate battery 6.2 volts on each battery...... Seems to be no life at all but. Needy of read up on the esc in former post
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Tug-Kenny RIP

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Re: Fault finding
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2016, 09:57:32 pm »


Pull all leads off the batteries and measure each battery separately. If you have 6 volts on each one then connect the negative of one battery to the positive of the second battery.  With the meter you should read 12 volts across the two open bare terminals.

When connected to your esc, you should see some lights flashing.

ken
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Fault finding
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2016, 09:24:34 am »

Yes, that is a description of a short circuit which should have destroyed the batteries.  Unless one was dead, or, hopefully, one of the wires acted as a fuse and is now just two dead ends. 
Parallel is black to black, red to red, red to ESC pos, black to ESC neg.  Nominal 6 volts, longer run time at lower speed.
Series is Battery A red to Battery B black, Battery A Black to ESC Black, Battery B red to ESC red.  Nomnal 12 volts, higher power, shorter run time.
As Tug-Kenny said, test each battery separately.  Then test under load.  There should be no significant difference, such a difference with either means that that battery is in poor condition. 
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unbuiltnautilus

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Re: Fault finding
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2016, 09:55:06 am »

Photo shows a Hitec FM receiver, probably 40mhz, which probably wont work with a Futaba transmitter, unless it is also FM AND fitted with a matching transmitter crystal, which will need to be a Futaba branded one.
Much work ahead of you I think...
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Fault finding
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2016, 10:08:11 am »

I hadn't noticed the receiver and its FM label, but doing a bit of googling, I only saw it mentioned in aircraft sites, implying 35MHz.  The OP mentions 27MHz - if a 35MHz receiver is fitted with a 27MHz band crystal, it has no chance of working whatever transmitter is used.  If it is a 27MHz transmitter (probably AM anyway), and 27MHz crystals are fitted, the simplest way is to get a 27MHz band receiver.
Once the radio setup is working, and it can be demonstrated that the steering servo works, it be be feasible to set up the ESC to work with the throttle stick.
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unbuiltnautilus

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Re: Fault finding
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2016, 10:56:23 am »

Ahh, many years of fault finding of attic finds, it gives you an eye for that sort of thing :-) . Seriously though, as Malcolm says, you need a baseline, something to work, so you can start working the problem. In cases like this, it is very useful to have a known, working set alongside the unknown model. you can then work through the components, one at a time.
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inertia

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Re: Fault finding
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2016, 11:34:06 am »

I have several of these receivers, all of which are 40Mhz FM and which I run from a Hitec Ranger 3 Tx. I have no idea whether or not it would work with a Futaba Tx, even if the crystals were the same frequency and type.
As regards the rest of the question, I suspect that Boxer may need a bit of basic grounding in model boats electrics. I wrote an article for Model Boats magazine a while ago which you can read here http://www.modelboats.co.uk/news/article/but-i-don't-understand-electronics/18054
I hope it will help as it aims to cover the basic technical stuff in a non-technical way.
The Viper ESC requires at least 6.0v from the battery under load (measuring it with no load is almost meaningless). Make sure the battery is fully charged. If the supply voltage drops below about 5.5v then the power which the ESC supplies to the receiver will stop and the whole lot will just sit silently and look at you.
Dave M
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boxer

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Re: Fault finding
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2016, 01:27:27 pm »

Getting nowhere frustrating or what





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boxer

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Re: Fault finding
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2016, 01:34:35 pm »

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boxer

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Re: Fault finding
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2016, 01:38:27 pm »

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boxer

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Re: Fault finding
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2016, 01:40:48 pm »

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inertia

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Re: Fault finding
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2016, 01:49:07 pm »

Boxer
Did you buy the boat like this or have you tried to install the electrics yourself? If it belonged to someone else did it ever work? How long is the model and what diameter is the propeller? How many blades does the prop have?
The photos are not helpful because we can't see the wires and connections which are hidden under the deck.
I would suggest removing all of the radio from the model and taking a picture of the various parts laid out on the bench, less any wiring. Once we know what you have then we can start to help you put it together properly and get it working. It would also be helpful if you could find out what sort of motor is fitted. Water-cooling isn't generally necessary unless the motor is heavily loaded or run with too high a voltage.
In the meantime I suggest you charge up both of the 6v batteries and also any rechargeable cells inside the transmitter.
DM
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boxer

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Re: Fault finding
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2016, 02:01:28 pm »

I bought it for a tenner at a fete to try and learn. Well it's certainly a learning curve  :}


All I have done is take lids off and had a. Look


The big downfall is batteries are fixed in with some sort of sealant.. Will try and strip it out. Later

Also same with motor

If you look on last photo you may see the shi.... Stuff
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boxer

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Re: Fault finding
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2016, 02:08:17 pm »

Another issue is access deck is fixed. Only the three lids as such
Seller said it worked last autumn over in wicksteed.about 26 inch long can't see any markings on motor.
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nivapilot

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Re: Fault finding
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2016, 02:18:25 pm »

after a bit of googling, and please tell me to butt out if wrong, but according to google.....
Futaba FP-T2NBR is a 35Mhzradio?......
Hitec HFS-04Mi is a 27Mhz receiver?

if right then the two won't talk to each other, and one of them needs changing.

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boxer

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Re: Fault finding
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2016, 02:24:24 pm »

Just noticed a label on back 40mhz fm picture of car and  boat words surface use only.......picture of plane in circle with. Prohibited under it...crystals match though
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inertia

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Re: Fault finding
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2016, 02:43:54 pm »

after a bit of googling, and please tell me to butt out if wrong, but according to google.....
Hitec HFS-04Mi is a 27Mhz receiver?
Please see the picture of the two receivers above, and note the labels on the side of each. I might be daft but I'm not stupid. Believe your own eyes if you think otherwise.
DM
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boxer

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Re: Fault finding
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2016, 02:55:54 pm »

My mistake 40mhz receiver 40mhz transmitters crystals are both 40.785
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unbuiltnautilus

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Re: Fault finding
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2016, 03:00:39 pm »

Well there was a two channel FM Futaba Attack R set back in the dim and distant. It would probably talk to the Hitec 40mhz Rx ( got two at home, deffo 40mhz! ) if the Futaba set had a corresponding Futaba FM Tx crystal.
The black label on the Tx crystal DOES denote an FM crystal however...but it is a HiTec crystal, so may only work at very close ranges, within a couple of feet if lucky.
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