Topic: Painting 1/12 Severn & placing water line (Read 12626 times)

lesfac · « **on:** June 26, 2016, 06:50:03 pm »

I think I am probably at the point of painting the hull.
I am wondering how to set the height of the waterline and I would be grateful for any advice available.
As I am aware of some difference between the shape of the hull and the RNLI drawings I am in a quandry about where to apply any measurements that might be used.
I am wondering if a float test at the correct scale weight might be the way to go and then mark the waterline at the water level?
As the Speedline instructions say the deck is level on the water, I assume resting the hull upside down on its deck and marking the waterline with a height gauge on the bench is the correct method?
( having established the placing of the water line)
I would be grateful for any advice.
Les

Tug-Kenny RIP · « **Reply #1 on:** June 26, 2016, 08:24:35 pm »

You could try the old fashioned way by levelling the boat in the bath tub to your satisfaction.

Remove boat and sprinkle baby powder across the water. Replace boat carefully back into water and gently remove boat leaving a line on your hull.

ken

lesfac · « **Reply #2 on:** June 26, 2016, 09:54:13 pm »

Thanks Ken. I didn't know about that method. I won't get it in our bath though

I will need to get a paddling pool or knock one up
Les

Tug-Kenny RIP · « **Reply #3 on:** June 27, 2016, 10:30:44 am »

I sometimes have this problem

ken

nemesis · « **Reply #4 on:** June 27, 2016, 03:42:51 pm »

Make sure that the white line is the actual waterline as it has been known that the white is above the waterline so it does not get dirty when lying afloat. Example is the Waveney. nemesis

lesfac · « **Reply #5 on:** June 27, 2016, 07:43:26 pm »

Thanks Nemisis. So I take it that I should aim to make the lower edge of the white line at the water level?
I lashed up a pool today and put the boat in. I had to add about 12 KG to get it to 23 kg which I think is the correct scale weight for 40 tons.
After establishing the water line I inverted the boat on the bench and found that from the deck to the water line measured 169mm. Having established that I suppose the next thing is to spray all over in primer before remarking the waterline at 169mm from the deck and spraying the blue and red.
Les

lesfac · « **Reply #6 on:** July 11, 2016, 03:44:47 pm »

Help Guys!!!
I have inverted the boat on the bench to mark the waterline parallel with the deck and I find that I have a few problems.
1 If I use the scale weight the waterline is closer to the spray rail at the front than on the real boat.
2 If I mark around the boat a set height off the bench (Meaning the waterline is parallel with the deck). When I make it look right at the front it is too near the bottom of the boat at the back. If I make it look right at the back its too near the spray rail at the front
3 I am thinking the only way to fudge it is to make it look right at the front and jack up the rear of thedeck (for marking out) at the rear then scribe a line. The line will not be parallel with the deck but I dont see another way of doing it and I am hoping it wont notice.
I hesitate to say it but is this a feature that is built into the moulding and is therefore wrong?
Although I am working from the deck to the waterline, in reality the waterline is where it is and the deck should be parallel to it so that the levels are correct at the front and rear. So does this mean that the deck is incorrect?
Any comments appreciated
Les

Canterbury Coxswain · « **Reply #7 on:** July 11, 2016, 05:09:52 pm »

Les, stand by your Severn, as I am alerting 17-09 who has done this recently and is a real master at getting waterlines absolutely correct and he has made a wonderful job on his Dover Severn Class boat [and I'm a member of the Elite Rivet Counters' Union - ERCU]. He won't thanks me for saying that, but you will not get better!
Stick at it - at least you are asking [what is what most of us do] where others don't. Good man.
Kim

17-09 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 11, 2016, 07:09:31 pm »

Les,
I cannot see that the waterline is parallel with the deck edge, there is only one short section of the deck aft that is relatively flat and that certainly is not parallel with the waterline. The best way is to mark off the correct waterline as shown on the plans and ballast to this line.
The forward marks can be determined from the RNLI side elevation, the rear one does move up if the MTU engines and therefore the weight of the boat changes, from your docking plan you will see the original line, and from the photos that I know you have you will see that the line is higher, use the position of the fittings to find your waterline position. the waterline is 1/4inch wide aft and 5/16th wide at the bow. . Set you model up square and get bow and stern marks the same height then scribe round the whole model with a depth marker,(A pencil taped to a paint can works well) after of course making sure the paint tin is the correct height...
Refer to my earlier posts about reverse painting the white waterline, I used Ford frozen white, it's toned down a bit from pure white.
contact me again if unsure about anything. The photo's from Kim show that the boat sits on the bottom of the white waterline.
[size=78%] Good luck[/size]
17-09 (ERCU founder member)

Netleyned · « **Reply #9 on:** July 11, 2016, 07:24:25 pm »

Are you showing the boat fully fuelled and ready to go at it's moorings?
Once you have the weight of the crew on board
Methinks a change.
Weight of the crew would need to be known.

Ned

lesfac · « **Reply #10 on:** July 11, 2016, 08:52:16 pm »

Hi 17-09
As ever thanks for your help.
I had read the instructions that say with regard to the waterline, the keel is not horizontal but the wheelhouse floor is and got it in my mind that this is the deck as on the hull moulding. Although I am embarrassed to say it, if its not the deck as moulded, I guess I don't really know where the "wheelhouse floor" is.

I am thinking about taking up paper aeroplane making

Les

Canterbury Coxswain · « **Reply #11 on:** July 12, 2016, 08:07:18 pm »

Les,
17-09 has now sent me some photos which I have re-sized and included here. Only the first one is of the actual boat, in the water at Dover. Note the way the waterline very gently thickens towards the bow - noticed and then replicated by 17-09. This is the only model I have seen with it on and I have seen quite a few over the last few years at many shows, regattas and club days.
!7-09 has also asked me to mention that his waterline is actually as straight as a die [I can vouch for that having seen it being marked up and then sprayed], although the camera lens [wide angle] has distorted the view through the line.
Finally, remember that 17-09 'reverse masks' his waterlines. White on the hull first, then mask the bottom line edge and apply red oxide [anti-fouling], then mask the top line edge and spray the 'correct' blue.
He is currently working on the wheelhouse and its railings at the moment.
Trust this might help yourself and others.
Kim

lesfac · « **Reply #12 on:** July 13, 2016, 12:13:21 am »

Thanks Kim
I am about to have my 3rd go at marking the waterline. I am starting to find the build difficult. I am getting in no man's land trying to match drawings to the model and finding that it just doesn't match. I notice that on the model pictures of 17-09s boat the waterline at the transom the waterline is very close to the actuators. I am sure this is accurate for the Dover boat. (Something to do with the newer Engines? )
I have to confess that I am not a rivet counter and within reason I will fudge some aspects in order to make progress. I realise that I do not have the patience or skills to replicate some of the skills I see here. That said I do want to end up with a nice model. I think I will probably rely on parallel vinyl tape for the waterline as I want to keep the spraying within my skill set. Plus if I need to change it for any reason it's less of a job.
With regard to the waterline I have had two issues firstly where to position it and secondly how to keep the hull in position when I have to move it to mark it out
Tomorrow I plan to make some simple stick on jacks so the hull remains stable for marking out.
Once again thanks for your help and suggestions. I am sure I will be asking for your help again before too long
Les

17-09 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 13, 2016, 09:30:05 am »

Hi Les,
I know you will get there and after all it is your model at the end of the day, from what I've seen, it is impressive already. These models are a real labour of love and take ages to complete, I have thought many times about shelving it and doing something different for a change, indeed I have left it for a while before and rebuilt a 1/96th HMS Newcastle, I also have HMS Invincible in my workshop awaiting commissioning!
I assume you have the bilge keels added and these should give you a level aft, just a little packing to clear the keel which is lower than the bilge keels. When level, jack up the bow to match the height of the waterline aft and your there, run the pencil round to give you a perfect straight line.
I can never get my paper planes to fly!!!
Regards 17-09

Canterbury Coxswain · « **Reply #14 on:** July 13, 2016, 09:34:45 am »

Les,
You are totally right in doing things your way, in fact a lot of the actual 'water line' markings on the lifeboats are applied using an adhesive tape - I've seen them pulling them off at RNLI HQ Poole when de-commissioning a boat in the past. I've also seen them removing the tape at Ramsgate, on their Trent, and then masking and taping a new line on after a small 'accident' during a storm and the rescuing of a yacht. At least you should get parallel lines. The hardest part will be the wrapping it around the bow [where it sometimes has a mind of its own, due to the bend in two directions], but on a warm day you might just be able to coax it with a few rubs of the them. The tapes from BECC cure on over a 24 hour period, but will require gentle warming if you need to remove them. The only problem here is the lengths you get on each length, they are enough, but there will be joins, but so are there on the real lifeboats. Again here and on the overlaps required to get the tape across the spray rails and hull moulded lines it is best to overlap and then out of sight, underneath, cut through with a sharp knife [scalpel] so as not to damage the finished paintwork, peel back and remove unwanted sections and re-position - it will hardly notice, it at all. It is sometimes easier to apply the line with the hull upside down, once you have marked where it is to go and are satisfied with the position.
Lastly, as a non-rivet counter there are two blessings. Firstly you should live longer than the rest of us and secondly, remember what Phil Warren the famous surface warship fleet builder said, 'it's a hobby and you should build to your own standard and at your speed, anything else is a chore!'. He is so right. Although we all want to get it right, the main thing is to enjoy it. All boats in real life are slightly different and you will sometimes hear even a 'rivet counter' say 'that's good enough' or 'that will have to do!', so don't beat yourself up with such a big beast as the 1/12th Severn. Remember what I have said before too, just keep asking away, we've all done the same and still do [sometimes off the record though!!], then you get umpteen suggested ways of doing it and you can choose the best way for yourself.
Keep up the good work and keep smiling and taking the pills, you'll get there long before I have finished one of mine!!!!!
Kim

jarvo · « **Reply #15 on:** July 13, 2016, 09:40:05 am »

HI Les, if you have a laser level once the hull is level, mark of the waterline

Mark

jarvo · « **Reply #16 on:** July 13, 2016, 09:46:39 am »

Les, Kim's comment on the lining tape, try the stuff the plane boys use, its called TrimLine from Model Technics, most shops stock it as well as online shops, comes on one roll but has different widths of tape, contains 2.5 meters, so would have plenty to go round your hull, plus it's flexible for compound curves, be careful that you don't stretch it just lay it on at one end and then apply to the full length of the hull

Mark

Canterbury Coxswain · « **Reply #17 on:** July 13, 2016, 10:30:54 am »

Mark,
You are correct on this one and I have used it on a couple of models, it's just that I have found it to not have stuck [fixed] itself to the hull as well as the BECC which cures overnight [especially where the spray rails on the FCB2 changed shape]. Although on one of my large yachts it has been no problem. That said, it's the old one of - you get the length, but possibly not the adhesion, whilst the other is in slightly shorter lengths, but does adhere well for a model on the water. Some of my good model boat building colleagues also like the fact that the Trimline tape is slightly thinner in its depth, whereas the BECC is thicker, and therefore more proud from the hull's surface. So again, the choice is there for the individual, but another good way forward.
I did mention, though, that the actual boats have theirs cut into shorter lengths and not always in one piece.
Kim

jarvo · « **Reply #18 on:** July 13, 2016, 10:39:10 am »

Good point Kim, i use an overspray of clear lacquer to seal the tape, plus it's easy to replace if i have given the dockside an unusual embrace!!!!

Mark

Flundle (Speedline Models) · « **Reply #19 on:** July 14, 2016, 11:41:39 pm »

You've had a lot of good advice there particularly regarding painting the white first but if you decide to use the stick on stripe method, drop me an email with your address and I'll send you a set of 1/12 scale stripes, red white and yellow, with my compliments.
Severn is wonderful too.

lesfac · « **Reply #20 on:** July 15, 2016, 12:32:01 am »

Thanks Adrian for your kind offer I will take you up on that as I am going to go down the vinyl route to simplify the marking out and spraying.
I made my little adjusters and stuck 2 on the rear corners of the deck and put a small block on the nose then inverted the hull so I had 3 points of contact with the bench. This gave me good stability and adjustment to mark the waterline.
As I already had some 2 inch Frog tape I thought I would see if it was usable and I quickly found that there was no hope of it going around the curves of the hull so I stretched a length across the kitchen and using a scalpel cut a 6mm ish wide length and wrapped it onto a roll of pvc insulation tape. This has applied to the hull ok using the good (uncut) edge against the marked waterline.
Would anyone have a picture of the white waterline taken from below to show it as it passes over the lower spray rail? I am not sure of the way the top and bottom edges of the waterline run on the underside of the spray rail itself. It the sort of thing that obvious when you have seen it but its an image I have failed to find. (I might be over thinking this bit)
Les

Canterbury Coxswain · « **Reply #21 on:** July 17, 2016, 08:55:32 pm »

Les,
You are never 'overthinking it' if you are trying to get it right - in my book anyway.
Not sure if the attached might help, but the first shot is by 17-09 when the Dover boat [17-09] was out of the water and being anti-fouled a few months back. No more photos to show the underside, but I have attached the photos taken last week at Dungeness of the Shannon in its new hull colours. The process is much the same, so when looked at head on at the side, especially when out of the water it just looks like a continuous line - it is at this point that it goes back to join the continuing line at 180 degrees or there about, depending on the angle of the hull at that point, depending on whichever class of lifeboat it is.
If this has still not made it clear, come back and I'll wade through some more photos. I've come up with these as you asked a question of us and no one else, yet, has responded.
Cheers, Kim

lesfac · « **Reply #22 on:** July 17, 2016, 09:20:43 pm »

Brilliant!!!
Thanks Kim. The second photo shows exactly what I thought needs to be done but I had never seen it on a model or anywhere else. On the ones I had taken note of they just let the tape twist around the chine but I couldn't figure out how this could be done and adhere to the scribed waterline.
I now feel clear on what to do and it confirms what I was thinking
Thanks
Les

Canterbury Coxswain · « **Reply #23 on:** July 17, 2016, 09:52:55 pm »

Les,
That's good. It is easier to do by painting, however, if using tape it might be easier to do the 'top' section and then cut through using a scalpel on the underside of the 'ledge', but not damaging the paint work, then lay on the 'bottom' section, so it looks correct and to the lines you have marked on the hull, and cut again on the underside of the ledge, then lay in a piece underneath that is cut to the correct width of the ledge [thereby masking the tucked under edges] and cut it at its front and rear ends at 180 degrees or whatever the hull shape dictates. At least with tape, should it go wrong you can gently peel off and start again, charging another reel of tape to 'house-keeping'!!
Kim

Stavros · « **Reply #24 on:** July 17, 2016, 09:59:09 pm »

Use some of the 3m FINE LINE tape for a clear edge that wont bleed and is so so easy to use,you simply will not find anything better forget the rest and use the best !!!!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3M-Blue-Fine-Line-Masking-Tape-6mm-x-33m-Single-Roll-/350668586931?hash=item51a579ffb3:g:9IoAAOxyF19SFJt4

Dave

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Author Topic: Painting 1/12 Severn & placing water line (Read 12626 times)

Stavros