Topic: What type of glue? (Read 11040 times)

MGSweeney · « **on:** July 07, 2016, 07:41:25 pm »

Hi all,
I'm needing some advice on the best glue to use. I have read on here that gorilla glue is good for wood to fiberglass.
My superstructure will be styrene, what glue wood ve best for this?
Thanks in advance.

CGAux26 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 07, 2016, 07:53:30 pm »

Plain old MEK (Methyl Ethyl Ketone) works great on styrene-to-styrene. Very cheap for a pint or a quart at the hardware store. It works by slightly dissolving the plastic, and then sets very quickly. So get your parts together in perfect alignment, clamp or tape them, and use a small brush to run a bit of MEK down the joint. If you want the MEK thicker put some styrene shavings in it and let them dissolve over night.

I put an ounce or 2 of MEK in a very small glass jar with a tight lid, and punch a small hole in the lid to dip the brush. Cuts down the evaporation.

Gotta be careful with it-it's highly flammable and hard on the nose and lungs. So lots of ventilation. But then so are many other glues.

I built my Model Slipways Loyal tender with MEK 9 years ago. No loose or broken joints yet.

MGSweeney · « **Reply #2 on:** July 07, 2016, 08:04:00 pm »

Thanks, i'll look on eBay just now

radiojoe · « **Reply #3 on:** July 07, 2016, 08:46:22 pm »

I use Admiralty Glues Professional Cyanoacrylate thin bonds just about anything to anything, assemble the joint and run a small amount in the joint capillary action dose the rest, bonds instantly, more expensive than the standard Cyanoacrylate but worth it, you can get it at www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk and it's worth getting some glue tips to aid application.

CGAux26 · « **Reply #4 on:** July 07, 2016, 09:16:49 pm »

Don't know if Gorilla Glue is good for wood-to-FG. But one very important caveat: Use GG very sparingly. It expands as it cures, and it will leak out all over a joint. It's easy to cut away the excess after it cures, though.

MGSweeney · « **Reply #5 on:** July 07, 2016, 10:35:22 pm »

Thanks for the advice, much appreciated

Brian60 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 08, 2016, 03:49:02 pm »

I have used gorilla glue original for bonding wood to fibreglass lots of times. As pointed out it needs room to expand! I damp the fibreglass and the wood, then put the glue onto the wood and then clamp in place. Keep an eye on it for the expansion and before it sets completely trim off the excess with a Stanley type blade, a craft knife isn't strong enough.

For gluing plastic go to Ebay and search for Dichloromethane in the scientific instruments section. You will get a liter for about £8. This stuff is also available in tiny bottles from the model shop and known as EMA Plastic Weld. It'll will cost you a fiver for a 57ml bottle, as you can see, that is some markup by EMA! Again like above a tiny amount applied by brush along the joint and it bonds instantly.

One other thing, if you get the liter decant it from the polythene container into glass with a screw cap. This stuff evaporates at a ridiculous rate - even from the plastic bottle!

One other thing

gluing plastic to wood or fibreglass, people will suggest using acrylic glue, I've tried it without success, I always use old fashioned Evo Stik contact adhesive.

MGSweeney · « **Reply #7 on:** July 08, 2016, 06:46:25 pm »

Thank you, i'll keep this in mind. I have ordered some model x plastic weld already, 7 quid for 100ml! Wish I would have waited before buying it now lol

derekwarner · « **Reply #8 on:** July 08, 2016, 10:50:24 pm »

Dichloromethane.....yes as Brian notes..........

'If you get the litre decant it from the polythene container into glass with a screw cap. This stuff evaporates at a ridiculous rate - even from the plastic bottle'

The fluid actually permeates through the wall of the polythene bottle and evaporates to atmosphere

From 3rd year Science & memory it is a [called Brownian Movement].......... Derek

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=13&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwirmYWe7OTNAhWBpZQKHXn6BOgQFghUMAw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FBrownian_motion&usg=AFQjCNFVbcNSTzfW5U8Xhpnos5olx4V-YQ

chipmonk · « **Reply #9 on:** July 09, 2016, 09:28:53 am »

Hi all, I have recently discovered "methalacrilate adhesive" from a supplier on ebay. And boy does it stick styrene. I and a couple of guys from our club have used it to fix prop shafts into styrene hulls and you wont get them out without destroying the hull

. And at about £2 a pack. It comes as a two part mix type glue with one part a red colour and the other part green. It works by attacking the surface of the styrene and then bonding to that. I now use it for all structural joints to styrene (decks, shafts, beams etc).
but for styrene to styrene MEK is the stuff. Also slaters plastic weld works well but it is a little costly but does not smell quite so powerfully.
I must check out the Dichloromethane as I need to get some more stock in.
Just my four penny's worth.
Cheers Chris M

CGAux26 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 09, 2016, 03:00:54 pm »

Over here in the US, MEK and other solvents come in steel cans. So no Brownian movement to worry about, Derek.

Martin (Admin) · « **Reply #11 on:** July 09, 2016, 05:45:23 pm »

Can I ask a related question please...

Are these modern acrylic glue as good as traditional Evostick?
( Gluing MDF to MDF )

eg. Gripfill, No Nonsense Grab Adhesive Solvent-Free, I Cant Believe It's Not Nails, Unibond No More Nails Solvent-Free Grab Adhesive.

Ianlind · « **Reply #12 on:** July 11, 2016, 10:13:25 am »

Be very carefull if using Dichloromethane/Methylene Chloride!

Read the MSDS before use and be very aware of Nervous System damage if inhaled!

Not recommended for hobby use!

Brian60 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 11, 2016, 10:35:41 am »

Quote from: Ianlind on July 11, 2016, 10:13:25 am

Be very carefull if using Dichloromethane/Methylene Chloride!

Read the MSDS before use and be very aware of Nervous System damage if inhaled!

Not recommended for hobby use!

So why is it sold in all model shops?.....

Ianlind · « **Reply #14 on:** July 11, 2016, 10:43:47 am »

Methylacrilate.

Another chemical that needs extreme care in use. Carcinogenic and irritant.

Again, read the MSDS before use and be extremely careful.

I'm in the model business and have been for nearly 30 years, and have come across some of these chemicals in the course of my business.
I have also been affected by some through not being aware of the dangers many years ago, but now being fully aware, I can only suggest that people check these chemicals out by reading the Material Safety Data Sheets before putting themselves at risk. You only have to Google the Chemical name and the MSDS are there for the viewing.
Because of the Urethanes I use, I've had to install fume extraction systems to my work area, as respirators won't remove the isocyanate fumes given off from the two pack product.

Ianlind · « **Reply #15 on:** July 11, 2016, 10:51:16 am »

Brian 60,

I know it's widely sold in hobby shops all over, but like I suggested, read the MSDS and make up you own mind.
If the manufacturers MSDS says it's harmfull, then I guess there's a reason for it!

radiojoe · « **Reply #16 on:** July 11, 2016, 11:00:18 am »

EvoStik contact adhesive is widely sold but in the wrong hands can be deadly,

RAAArtyGunner · « **Reply #17 on:** July 12, 2016, 02:42:57 am »

"Everybody uses it, everybody sells it"

Doesn't mean that it won't still cause you harm, the warnings/MSDS are there, to mitigate any damage claim you might make.
In other words, you have been warned. You know that legal mumbo jumbo lawyers/law always use, "Ignorance is no excuse".

Makes very good sense, to be aware of what you are using and its effects.

Ianlind · « **Reply #18 on:** July 12, 2016, 06:57:23 am »

Years back when I was doing a lot of patternmaking for my model railway business, I used MEK ( Methyl Ethyl Ketone ) by the litre, in steel cans, then I started to get chronic headaches and did some research!
Not good! This stuff is also quite dangerous, and I had to put in a dedicated fume extraction system to scavenge the air from directly in front of my patternmaking work bench to remove the fumes. The suction tube actually sat on the bench directly in front of where the workpiece was, so any fumes from the MEK went directly outdoors.

One of the "thought to be safer" adhesives for HIPS or white styrene is Limonene, which is a natural extract from lemon skins, or so I was led to believe, but when you check the MSDS you get all the same warnings as you do for other known nasties, so maybe nothing is safe to use without all the safety gear in place. It's also a fire hazard with quite a low flashpoint of 48 degrees C!
I suppose for old modellers who are close to the end, it doesn't matter so much, but for the younger ones, you need to stay healthy longer!

Back to Plywood and Aliphatic Resin, but then some of these resins have Isocyanates, and that's about as dangerous as you can get!

Maybe knitting? or Lawn Bowls!

Brian60 · « **Reply #19 on:** July 12, 2016, 08:08:34 am »

Dichloromethane is widely used in the aircraft industry for cleaning purposes, I've seen on forums, workers from that industry tell how they soak rags in the stuff to wipe down aluminium surfaces before paint etc is applied.

Yes I'm not disagreeing that it can be dangerous, but so is smoking, drinking or indeed crossing the road. But take proper precautions and there is no more a problem with it then any other glue or solvent that is used for modelling. You don't mention cyanocrylate at all, which for me is much more dangerous than the plastic weld. I have chronic asthma and the fumes from superglue give me much more of a problem than I have ever had from plastic weld, such that I avoid using it and its only there as a very last resort for me.

Ianlind · « **Reply #20 on:** July 12, 2016, 08:49:21 am »

Brian 60,

You are right, but how many actually take the correct precautions when using these chemicals? Not many I would bet.

Those aircraft workers might have some issues in time. Very irresponsibe employers I would think.

Cyano's are, as you say, another source of worry.

MGSweeney · « **Reply #21 on:** July 12, 2016, 08:41:53 pm »

Thanks for all of the advice, i'll have a read at the MSDSs.

Ron Rees · « **Reply #22 on:** August 25, 2016, 02:48:53 pm »

Going back to your original question.

Polyurethane wood glue, the expanding foam type treacle -like glue, with makes like Gorilla etc. is an exterior grade, waterproof one part expanding glue originally formulated for wood, but it actually sticks most things pretty well. I use it on my laminated foam models but buy it from Screwfix where it is cheaper. It works by using the moisture in the parts to be bonded so it sometimes helps if you dampen one surface slightly if they are dry like the GRP will be.

It will certainly glue wood to GRP resin, but is difficult to keep control over once expanding, is messy and will, as mentioned above, push parts away from each other unless they are clamped well. Nevertheless, it is amazing stuff. (Clean up with Acetone or throw brushes away!)

Back in the day, Stabilo-Express was a German glue specifically formulated for gluing wood to GRP resins and also Styrene.

Fibreglass resin itself will also stick wood to GRP and can be mixed with something like Micro-Balloons to gap fill better. A lot of people used to use car body filler which is a similar mix but with chalk instead and further reinforce with a bit of glass cloth or tissue (Ie when gluing decks on and fitting hardware like propshafts and rudder posts etc) I wouldn't recommend using GRP resins or fillers on your styrene though as it can melt it.

So endeth the lesson................hope this helps........(Wait for the backlash!!)

cheers Ron.

Brian60 · « **Reply #23 on:** August 25, 2016, 04:06:52 pm »

Nope it's all good advice Ron and worth reminding people of.

Ron Rees · « **Reply #24 on:** August 25, 2016, 04:13:23 pm »

Thank you for that Brian,

I bet the glue dries quickly where you live.

Cheers......Ron

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Author Topic: What type of glue? (Read 11040 times)