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Author Topic: Hello - Upgrading a brushless mnotor  (Read 4572 times)

Oh How Original

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Hello - Upgrading a brushless mnotor
« on: August 21, 2016, 12:39:33 pm »

Just thought I'd introduce myself, I'm Dan and I live in Brough (Cumbria, UK)
I've been into ground and aerial RCs for many years, but a couple of weeks ago I bought my first boat, after having a go with my friends Shockwave, I went and bought a Thunder Tiger Avanti and think it's great fun.
A little more speed maybe needed in the near future as I'm running on 3s not 4s.
Someone recommended this forum to me for gathering info and tips, so thought I'd just join and see where I get :)

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canabus

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Re: Hello :)
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2016, 01:52:42 pm »

Hi Dan
Welcome to the forum, if you require more info on fast electrics have a look at

http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/forum.php
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Oh How Original

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Re: Hello :)
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2016, 02:02:20 pm »

Hi Dan
Welcome to the forum, if you require more info on fast electrics have a look at

http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/forum.php

Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.
I'm not after anything super fast, just a little more top end so I don't have to hold the throttle wide open so much.
I'm thinking it will be more effeicent on the LiPos :)
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Oh How Original

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First boating experience
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2016, 07:45:20 pm »

I thought I'd share my first boating experience with you all, seeing as I'm new to the forum :) apologies for putting it in this section, but I really wasn't sure where to put it as it's not really a project/build as such.

After a few nights of trawling the web, the Proboat Shockwave and Thunder Tiger Avanti had my attention.
 Popped down to the model shop, after some bits and pieces of advice, plus the fact my friend burned out 2 stock Shockwave ESCs in a matter of minutes each with a 3s, I settled on the Avanti, having used my mates Shockwave, I know they aren't the most stable boat in the world, so I thought for comparison I'd get the Avanti.
 Well, so far it's run great, the battery box fits a 2200 Overlander and a 2900 Overlander 3s in there perfectly.
 Apparently, the electrics will accept a 4s, but I won't be trying it, if I want more speed (which I may do for testing purposes soon) I will opt for a higher kv motor and may even drop down to a 2s.
 I've found it handles incredibly well, several chaps at the boating lake commented how planted it was (on my first ever run I'd like to point out, so I'm far from an expert) and so far I've not flipped it or rolled it.
 After 3 packs, the motor and ESC are still only warm, which considering they are fairly well hidden and it was on a hot day, is pretty impressive.
 I'd definitely say it's worth buying, I chucked it in, two seconds later I was grinning from ear to ear at how easy it can be flicked around, which is good, because it isn't the fastest thing out there.
 For all out speed, the Shockwave definitely wins, but that wasn't my aim.
 As I say, I'm no expert, but I just wanted to post some information for anyone who is undecided.
 My opinion so far is, money well spent and I'm thoroughly enjoying my boating experience thus far.
 Below is some photos and video of it... Only the second visit to the lake and already I've been test dummy for their little row boat not an experience I thought I'd have so soon!
 But a successful rescue mission was accomplished, and no wet feet!
 It also gave me a chance to test out my new DSLR, although I forgot to get some footage from it, so this is just from the SJ4000.
 Just a note, the water isn't dirty, it's a green dye they use to try and keep the weeds down



















And at one point my little Avanti decided to try and pull all the weeds from the entire lake, damn good effort.


 One of Rays petrols getting ready for some wet goodness!

 Ray, emptying the water from his boat, while his fuel tank leaked, with a fag in his mouth :lol:

 Ummmm, how does this one work?! :ack:

 And finally, me on my rescue mission :rolleyes:


And also some footage from the day :) hope you enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSCnzz9iHns&feature=youtu.be
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Martin (Admin)

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Re: First boating experience
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2016, 08:26:11 pm »


Nice one OHO  and welcome to the Mayhem!

Not many boat have that much luck first time out, especially with fast electrics, advantage out buying a RTF i guess.

Look forwards to the video....



http://www.thundertiger.com/products-detail.php?id=24
http://stock.thundertiger.com/product/5129-F11L.html
 
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Oh How Original

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Re: First boating experience
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2016, 09:45:35 pm »


Nice one OHO  and welcome to the Mayhem!

Not many boat have that much luck first time out, especially with fast electrics, advantage out buying a RTF i guess.

Look forwards to the video....


http://www.thundertiger.com/products-detail.php?id=24
http://stock.thundertiger.com/product/5129-F11L.html

Thanks for the links... Yeah I felt quite lucky, I managed to flip my friends Shockwave after a few seconds, then again, so did he and he's been boating for years.
Just noticed the video hasn't embedded, I'll try and sort that now, if not, just click the link and it'll direct you to YouTube  :-))

EDIT; I can't seem to edit the original post, tried embedding here and it doesn't seem to want to work lol.
Sorry folks, you'll just have to click the YouTube link at the bottom of the first post to watch it :)

https://youtu.be/NSCnzz9iHns


 
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canabus

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Re: Hello :)
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2016, 08:21:06 am »

Hi Oh How Original

What is size motor, watts and kv has the boat got in it??
May be cheaper to up the motor!!
I started with 35mm 1100kv and straight swapped to a 35mm 1450kv.
That was a good boost in speed, I had now changed up to 4S which is at the limit my boat will handle in it is setup.
The drive line is requiring replacement, so I will change to a flex drive setup with a surface prop!!!
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Oh How Original

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Re: Hello :)
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2016, 01:29:16 pm »

Hi Canabus, well, my first thought was to change the motor, I've even found the perfect one, it's a nice long can so should stay cool and it's a 2600kv which compared to my current 1900kv tiny can, should work absolutely perfectly on 3s, I've contacted the seller and they've told me it's rated for above 40,000rpm, so it's well within reasonable running on 3s which should produce just over 28,000rpm, another factor was the ESC, but as that can handle 4s on the current set up, I know that running a slightly higher kv motor on the same voltage is fine, based on my surface RC experience.
My main problems currently are, I can't seem to remove the motor from the mount, I tried last night and all 4 screws holding it in, go very tight both ways.
It's like they've been cross threaded from the factory, I bought the boat RTR so nothing has actually been installed by me.
The next thought was to simply buy a new motor mount, but I can't find one that matches the current set up.
And finally, if I was to buy a different/generic mount, I haven't got a clue how I'd securely mount it to the boat.
The new motor is 58mm long, 28mm diameter, which is the same as my current one, but it has a 35mm diameter water jacket, so I'm prety sure it won't actually even fit in my current mount.
A couple of pictures below should hopefully be informative enough for a few people to perhaps make a suggestion or two? :) any advice would be very much appreciated.
Ideally a link to a mount that will fit the motor and has the same four holes... But I feel that might be asking for a bit much  :((
If anyone needs anymore specific pictures, I can take any needed.





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Oh How Original

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Re: Hello :)
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2016, 02:16:54 pm »

Hurray, after using a little bit of heat and a lot of persistence, the motor is free from the mount.
Now, my most reliable/best option would possibly to get a new mount machined by someone out of a strong alloy that's wide enough to fit the water jacket of this motor I've got my eye on.
I've took another couple of pictures to show the inner diameter and the length of the mount, I'm going to contact the seller again and ask him if the water jacket can be moved, if it can, then perhaps it can be moved to the end of the can enough to enable me to fit it into this mount.
A cheaty option could be to Dremel some of this current mount away to fit the jacket in, but, given it's plastic and subject to heat from the motor, that may not be the most wise of decisions.
If anyone has a motor suggestion that would fit but ideally a longer can and around 2500-2800kv, please suggest away! :)



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canabus

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Re: Hello :)
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2016, 08:47:57 am »

Hi Oh How Original
Have a look at Hobbyking.

Motors 2858-2630kv (2-4S) 700watts, NTM Prop-Drive 28-36 3000kv(2-4s)775WATTS, Dr. Mad Thrust 29mm 3300kv(2-4S)1100watts and 2836-3700kv (3-4S) 700watts.
The last one is the hot up motor for the F3 tunnel hull!!!!
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Oh How Original

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Re: Hello :)
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2016, 06:32:35 pm »

Hi Oh How Original
Have a look at Hobbyking.

Motors 2858-2630kv (2-4S) 700watts, NTM Prop-Drive 28-36 3000kv(2-4s)775WATTS, Dr. Mad Thrust 29mm 3300kv(2-4S)1100watts and 2836-3700kv (3-4S) 700watts.
The last one is the hot up motor for the F3 tunnel hull!!!!

Hi bud, I ordered one from HobbyKing last night, along with some 4mm bore copper pipe for a DIY cooling coil :) I went for a 2630kv option, only 18quid with a bit of postage on top, all in all it's about £25/26 with the copper pipe, which is worth a gamble :)
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canabus

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Re: Hello :)
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2016, 01:35:46 am »

Hi Mate

That motor should get it cooking and give those noisy IC boats a bit of run.
Brushless motors start easier than IC, HA,HA!!!
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Oh How Original

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Re: Hello :)
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2016, 12:07:15 am »

Hi Mate

That motor should get it cooking and give those noisy IC boats a bit of run.
Brushless motors start easier than IC, HA,HA!!!

Couldn't agree more mate lol.
Just hope I don't cook my LiPos  {-)
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canabus

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Re: Hello :)
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2016, 08:03:15 am »

Hi Matey
The motor is rated for a 40 Amp ESC and the Lipo (40C) should be the same if you are going to drive in hard.
If the Lipo is under it with require a bit a management.
You can get water cool plates for Lipo's.

canabus
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Oh How Original

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Re: Hello :)
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2016, 08:21:41 pm »

Well, a bit of a disaster all round today, in total we had 8 boats there and only 2 came back actually working.

Well, strictly speaking mine works, but it isn't suitable with this new motor.

Gave it a run and after 30 seconds, the motor temp was at 40C, assumed this was about as hot as it was going to get, ran it again for 30 seconds or so, it had moved to 52C... Ran it for another minute straight and it had shot up to 83C!

I also noticed the ESC had got warmer than normal too and the LiPo was still warm (which was the main reason for the swap) so all in all, a bit of a fail.

I am going to have to consider what my next options are, but realistically, I don't want to end up with silly amounts invested and so far I'm up to about £230.

If anyone has any recommendations, I'm all ears.
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canabus

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Re: Hello :)
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2016, 12:17:18 pm »

Hi Oh
As you have up the revs by about 8000 and with the heat problems.
Decrease the prop size with plastic props.
The larger prop is over loading the motor, ESC and battery.
Warm is OK, but 52 degrees is not.
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Oh How Original

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Re: Hello :)
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2016, 01:04:56 pm »

52 wouldn't be too bad, it was the 83 that made me stop  :o {-)
How do you measure the prop size?
I will get a slightly smaller one ordered, if I can find the right one.
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Re: Hello :)
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2016, 04:18:53 pm »

Plastic Props are cheap enough to buy a selection of sizes to experiment with.

Len.
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Oh How Original

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Re: Hello :)
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2016, 10:19:04 pm »

That's true... It would be nice to know which size I was aiming for though then I at least get 1 lol.
It's a plastic proper that's on it now... Someone suggested carbon fibre might be even lighter and create less drag?
I'm unsure, but it was just suggested to me.
For the moment, I've gone back to the old motor set up, just in case we hit the lake on Friday.
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canabus

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Re: Hello :)
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2016, 05:29:48 am »

Hi
The standard props are 1.4 pitch, but you can get others.
First thing measure the prop diameter and the drive hole size.
Look at the blade shape.
Hobbyking have 5 pack of plastic props for about $2 AU.
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Oh How Original

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Re: Hello - Upgrading a brushless mnotor
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2016, 03:43:42 pm »

Thanks very much :) do we think maybe going for a slightly sharper pitch, will increase the speed a little bit?
I know the stock motor can take more, it only just gets warm, nothing major at all.
It might be an idea to gaining a touch more speed, so I don't have to have the throttle on as hard for as long.
Which is ultimately my goal, to attempt to bring the LiPo temps down.
This is certainly a learning experience lol!
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