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Author Topic: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build  (Read 7624 times)

derekwarner_decoy

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Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
« Reply #50 on: November 28, 2016, 08:31:47 AM »

Raphael....... >>:-(.....this a bad example...........1000W of steam power @ the shaft, must equal 1000W of electric power @ the shaft

Clearly the power of one tug was greater than the power of the other

Derek
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tizdaz

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Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
« Reply #51 on: December 08, 2016, 10:18:58 PM »

Just finished making the mount, seems solid! :)


I used 3mm aluminium sheet & 10mmx10mm brass bars




Got my Tap & Die set out.. (i used some green tape as a depth marker for the thread).



Finished mount



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tizdaz

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Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
« Reply #52 on: December 13, 2016, 01:42:10 AM »

Just a bit of an update:
Hull Preparation..
First thing is to prep the hull, this involves sanding down the rough edges of the fibreglass for a smooth finish, I will then then be adding some wooden supports within the hull for the deck (Bulkheads/Deck Beams) & also for the areas where electronics, batterys & motor are going to be placed, For added strength I will be applying some U-Pol Easy 1 all around the inside of the Bulwark & also on top of the plywood deck once fitted & then sanded down for a smooth finish. I will also reinforced the bottom of hull using a piece of ply with a thickness of 10mm fixed in place using some P40, this is where the batterys are going to be seated so it was essential that I reinforced it as the total weight of the batterys will be around 30kg.


Making the bulkheads is quite tricky as i want as much as a snug fit to the hull shape as posisble! ..In the end I bought myself a Plastic French Curve, which is basically a piece of lead coated in rubber which can be bent to any shape & hold its form, which means it is ideal for getting the shape of my hull for making the bulkheads, I used some cardboard for the template to make sure the shape was correct, once I was happy the shape was correct I then used the carboard template to copy over onto the 9mm ply.
hullprep.jpg
i managed to do a bit more of the bulkheads, I cut them out of ply & fit pretty snug, got 3 more left to do then I i will fix them in place using P40, they are spaced 25cm apart (5 in total), before being fixed in, the center of each of the bulkheads will be cut out square to allow me to fit a base which is where the electrics/batterys etc will be seated.

I used a bendy ruler for basic hull shape then transferred to cardboard, then taped smaller pieces of cardboard to plug the gaps to get snug fit, I then used the cardboard template to cut the bulkhead out of ply, Last pic is checking the deck sits flush on top of bulkhead..


And heres what she looks like at the mo:


For my very 1st build im happy so far, yup i know it's only a couple of bulkheads & motor mount, but the amount of time its taken just to get this far is alot! ..but im happy so far with the results

Motor & Mount
The motor I'm going to use is a 24-Volt, 150watt which has around 3000rpm. Current draw should be around 6-7amps (its basically a scooter motor so should be more than enough for pushing the tug along at scale speed using direct drive, The motor came supplied with a steel gear fitted onto the shaft & it was on solid! ..I had to use a Gear Puller removal tool to get it off, the shaft has a flat spot which is good for the grub screw when fitting the coupling. The mount I made out of 10mm x 10mm square brass rods for the base & 3mm Aluminium Sheet for the end plates.


I cut 2 lengths (100mm) of the brass bar & then I used a tap to make a thread at each end of the bars
brassbar.jpg


I then cut the 2 end plates out of the Aluminium sheeting & cut out the holes & then fixed the motor to the mount using bolts
mmount.jpg


I'm pleased with the outcome of the mount, its very solid and has 4 mounting holes (2 either side) to fix it to the base, this will make removing/inserting the motor for maintenance fairly simple.

Prop & Prop Shaft & Rudder..
Prop I'm going to use will be a 5" 4 Blade along with a 12.5mm Brass outer with an 8mm stainless steel inner shaft with oiler, coupling will probably be 8mm plain (motor output shaft) to 8mm threaded (drive shaft) but not 100% sure yet. The rudder will be made out of copper sheet & hot welded to the rudder post & then 2mm wood planking either side of the rudder to finish it off.
prop_shaft.jpg


Im going to continue with making the rest of bulkheads & then I will sort the deck out which will be 5.6mm ply


Daz
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tizdaz

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Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
« Reply #53 on: December 14, 2016, 02:46:08 AM »

Added a couple of more bulkheads..



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Martin (Admin)

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Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
« Reply #54 on: December 14, 2016, 12:30:29 PM »


How does outside the hull look?
 No 'bulkhead' ripples I hope.
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tizdaz

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Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
« Reply #55 on: December 14, 2016, 04:22:14 PM »

Hey :-)


Nah no ripples, but they not fixed in yet, i will be making a start on fixing them in with p40 tomoz, but when in place they just sit nicely (not forced etc) so should all be good hopefully! :-)
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Stavros

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Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
« Reply #56 on: December 14, 2016, 04:39:54 PM »

Thats why i didnt bother putting bulkhead in mine....being a thick lay up ....others who have built the hull havnt done so as well.....Each to their own I suppose......I agree Martin bulkheads have their places definatly on wooden hulls and styrene and thinly laid up hulls...but they do have a nastly habit of showing up down the side of the hulls.This is simply due to the chemical reaction causing a heat transfer thus slightly deforming the side thus bulkheads showing down the side of the hull.

As i had explained all the hull needs is some wood along the sides to support the deck with wood port to stbd as supports.


I personally  wouldnt even be thinking of a deck let alone bulkheads at the mo till I had sorted the Motor and shaft alignment let alone the rudder and linkage....


WHY may you ask....well as I have built this hull   and now due to a shaft bending I have to work through the hull to gain acces,even thought it is a large hull...believe you Me it is going to be a right palava to get at the shaft to seal it up inside and to be honest with you there aint a lot of room between the deck and hull




Dave
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Fastfaz

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Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
« Reply #57 on: December 14, 2016, 07:00:35 PM »

  I cannot agree more with Stav re fitting the propshaft,motor and rudder etc while you have the freedom of an open hull, as he says if you have a problem later on its a complete b+++++d to correct. Some time ago I had a problem with the shaft on the bowthruster in one of my tugs and boy was that difficult to cut out and repair! a bit like wallpapering your hall through the letterbox. I also agree about the bulkheads especially if you are using P40 the heat it generates is amazing as it cures, if you want some photos of how to do the deck (i.e. cross supports) PM me and I'll email you some.
    Cheers,
        Pete. :-)) :-)) :-))
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tizdaz

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Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
« Reply #58 on: December 14, 2016, 08:26:18 PM »

hi guys :)


I'm fitting bulkheads, not for strength of hull, but mainly for support of the base where batterys are going to sit & support for the deck, You mentioned your deck was made out of fibreglass & you also fibreglassed the bottom of your hull for extra strength stav, i don't really have that option as i've never used fibreglass before so i dont want to chance it making a f*%k up! but i'm quite handy with wood so for me using ply for the deck & bottom of hull is the better option, the bulkheads are barely touching the sides of hull (just enough to stop them from falling when free standing) i was going to use P40 to fix them in place but after what Fastfaz mentioned about generating heat i can see why this may cause a ripple effect, so i might have another look around for a more suitable bonding glue so any suggestions would be great :) ?


Aye I have no intention of fixing the drive gear in place before deck is fitted, but in the mean time I will get the deck cut to shape etc so its ready to go in, & with it being ply it will have  some flex allowing me to slot it into place so i maybe able to fit it in as a single piece, if not then i will have to fit it in seperate pieces like you have done with your fibreglass deck, i just wont fix it in place until everything below deck is done including the wiring.
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tizdaz

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Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
« Reply #59 on: December 14, 2016, 08:59:03 PM »

Would this be better than P40 in terms of fixing the bulkheads to hull so it doesn't cause any deformation to the hull as mentioned above?

P40 http://www.halfords.com/motoring/paints-body-repair/fillers-preparation/u-pol-glass-fibre-repair-paste-900ml


or what about Gorilla Glue?

ta!
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Stavros

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Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
« Reply #60 on: December 14, 2016, 09:15:14 PM »

NO as it is the same thing......ALL you NEED to do to strengthen the hull to take the weight of the batts is to lay a piece of ply on the bottom of the hull with P40 THAT IS ALL and simply run a fillet of P40 around the edge of the wood.I will Guarantee you it will not move


Yes I glassed my deck in and the wood simply because I know what I am doing and if you REMEBER right I DID OFFER to glass the deck in for you. ....NO brainer then is it....You will as I have said and Fastfaz have pointed out you WILL run the risk with bulkheads of having outlines of them along the hull....


Bonding in deck supports along the length of the hull and the odd one port to stbd will NOT deform the hull in any way at all.


Dave

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tizdaz

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Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
« Reply #61 on: December 14, 2016, 10:16:01 PM »

hiya mate!


Aye i ain't forgot you offered to do it fella & was muchos appreciated ;) , I just wanted to have a go at doing it myself really as I need to learn & the best way of learning (imo!) is to get hands on & do it myself as this will be the 1st of hopefully a few builds for myself, i got the idea of using bulkheads from off net, i think one of the places i read about it was kingston Mouldings who use ply bulkheads in there fibreglass hull builds using P40 so i thought it would be ok.


Is the problem with using bulkheads due to them pressing against hull causing them to "rib" the hull or is it something else? I ask because if its the first, I've read up that leaving a couple of mil gap between the actual bulkhead & hull & then filling the gap with P40 is the way to do it?
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Stavros

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Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
« Reply #62 on: December 14, 2016, 11:02:33 PM »

Read the previous post properly.........one word HEAT

What you have got to remember is that the hulls from Kinston Mouldings are SMALLER than this tug and they are thinner....and I don't mean that they are of an inferior build quality either...before someone gets on his High horse !!!!!!


Because they are smaller they are laid up lighter...in other words THINNER...and here lies the clue...as they are Thinner is means they will NEED bulkheads....your Hull is a heavyweight and thus simply don't need bulkheads




Dave


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Ron Rees

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Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
« Reply #63 on: December 14, 2016, 11:29:09 PM »

Used to build canoe hulls (Full size) for the club at school and they needed two wooden bulkheads. P40 or similar will definately generate heat and the thicker your spatula is (Thumb!!) the hotter it will get. The wood bulkheads could be fairly loose, that is not the problem, its the heat generated that forms the ripples, which will always be there if you do it that way.


Do NOT use Gorilla Polyurethane glue, you'll get in a right old mess.


  Cut out the bulkhead centres as you planned, then cut strips of 1 inch wide Glassfibre tape (You can buy this on the roll) Using a throwaway shiney surface, old tile, glass, piece of laminate etc, paint GRP resin onto the tape and place into position in the corners where the wood and the hull meet. Do one side of as many as you can and let them harden, This does not generate as much heat, although there is a slight risk if you slap too much resin on.
When dry go round and do the other side.  (You can also buy GRP rope which is also good)


This is only what we used for canoes...PS. The foam was sprayed in front of the front bulkhead and behind the rear one, through 2 inch holes for bouyancy aids in case of damage. This could work with yours as well


I also agree with the others, have your running gear/motor mounts set up next, before the bulkheads, much easier.


Just my opinion.....Ron.
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tizdaz

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Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
« Reply #64 on: December 15, 2016, 10:24:27 PM »

oki doke, going to take the experts words of wisdom & go back to beams & scrap the bulkheads!


but.. because ive already made 4 bulkheads, would it be ok to cut them right down so i just have the bottom quater of them to basically sit a piece of ply on them for the base for battery etc? or should i not bother... only because seems a bit of a waste if i have to bin them?


would this still cause the hull to have the rib effect ya think ?
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Stavros

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Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
« Reply #65 on: December 15, 2016, 11:13:53 PM »

YES


As in Previous post sit some ply in some P40 along the bottom of the hull and there you go




Dave
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captain bligh

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Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
« Reply #66 on: December 16, 2016, 11:38:56 AM »

I've seen many a time on full scale boats when someone has put the frames in at 500mm centres and made the mix to hot and put three lays of (2oz glass) sorry still work in old money  %) . Or should I say 3x 600 gram glass and pulled a hull to pieces hull being maybe 1/2"-3/4" thick that is just down to heat build up.On a dark hull it smacks you in the face from 100 paces  :embarrassed:


Mike
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tizdaz

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Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
« Reply #67 on: January 03, 2017, 01:58:57 AM »

quick update,


Fitted a couple of beams and will be adding a 3rd, i will then add beams length ways joining them together, this will give a solid base for the deck to sit on, also a few more bits arrived in post, brass sheet for rudder, some flux, silver solder, connectors, 14awg wire, Titebond 2 premium wood glue (tested this out & have to say it bonds like cement, even when I tried to rip the 2 glued pieces apart it basically split the wood, the glue didn't give!.. Highly recommend this stuff for your wood glue & also water proof. And also picked up a butane gun for my silver soldering.


I'm now waiting for a brass strip & a 12" 4mm prop shaft to arrive so I can build the rudder (nope the 4mm prop shaft is NOT for the drive!) ...but i will be chopping it up for mounting the rudder! (cheers dave for the tip!) For the drive I will be ordering a Prop-Shaft & Prop shortly, I've decided to go with a 4.5" 4 blade prop. Also for the rudder servo its a toss up between the mpex rhino digi4 (i use these in my large scale off road models for the past 15 years pretty much) have around 25kg of torque which will be plenty for the rudder but also a VERY good & reliable servo. But ive also been looking at the SAVOX SW-0231MG which is a fully waterproof servo with 15kg torque which again is more than enough torque and also over half the price of the mpex, so will have a think, I will prob go for the savox simply because its waterproof which is a bonus for obvious reasons


When i was fitting the beams i used a piece of ply that i will be using for the deck & clamped in place to give the correct angle for the beam to be fixed..





Beams fitted (need to add 1 more at the stern) you can also see the markers on the forward beam which is the point where i will be running beams length ways



Bottom braces, (not fixed in yet with epoxy and also need to fit 1 more at the stern) but will be shortly, i will be placing a 12mm piece of ply on the top which is where the batterys & electrics etc will be seated







Heres a few of my bits ordered..
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derekwarner_decoy

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Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
« Reply #68 on: January 03, 2017, 03:06:54 AM »

Daz.........just to clarify %)....

Titebond II is listed and marketed as water resistant under 'ANSI Type II water-resistance test criteria
Titebond III is listed and marketed as water proof under 'ANSI Type I water-resistance test criteria

My understanding this latter product is the only white glue [easy cleanup, non foaming like that Gorrrrrrila >>:-( glue] marketed that has the water Proof word on the label

I also understand you would literally need water sloshing around & not drained out for an extended period for the Titebond II to fail.......then again that criteria does sound like the bilge in a model boat  :o

Derek
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Stavros

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Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
« Reply #69 on: January 03, 2017, 07:49:59 AM »

If thats the torch you got to do the silver soldeeing  then simply forget it you need propane and not butane to do that job...been there had the tee shirt


Dave
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tizdaz

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Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
« Reply #70 on: January 03, 2017, 11:33:56 AM »

hiya mate


as long its done in a warm area so the butane liquid isn't cold then it burns just as hot as propane, but im also going to use rosin flux and a soldering block i have to do the work on which reflects the heat which helps big time with silver soldering, ive done it this way in the past, only a couple of times but it worked ok so fingers crossed \o/


what SS did you use as at the mo i'm still looking around as i don't want to buy a whole reel for just this little job but cant seem to find anything but full spools?
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Stavros

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Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
« Reply #71 on: January 03, 2017, 04:53:31 PM »

Er i dont use reels of it i use sticks off ebay


Dave
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tizdaz

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Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
« Reply #72 on: January 03, 2017, 08:47:03 PM »

Aye found some, i was looking for easy flo 2 but it got replaced with silver flo 55 couple of years ago which was why i couldnt find it lol, all sorted now though cheers dude :-)
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tizdaz

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Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
« Reply #73 on: January 10, 2017, 06:19:46 AM »

Bit of an update


Made a start on the wiring for the batterys..
I Hot Soldered the wires to the ring terminals, & then soldered the wires to the connectors, Ive added connectors throughout the wiring setup to allow me to remove/insert 1 battery at a time as a majority of the of time I will be sailing this on my own, so I need to make it so I can transport it on my own with ease, so being able to remove/insert 1 battery at a time was a must as each battery weighs around 7kg, this will allow me to fit/remove the batterys with the hull in the water which in turn will make transporting the hull to & from the water very simply (& light!). This is 1 of 2 pairs of batterys that will be hooked up to a modified P103 distribution board.


Ive also fixed the motor to a piece of 9mm ply, As you can see, I fixed it in place using bolts passed through from the underside, I did it this way so the motor can be removed/inserted with ease if needed just by loosening/tightening the 4 nuts then the motor can then be lifted on/off the bolts, the wooden base will be epoxied down with P40. I will also be using a shaft bracket (pic below) to keep the shaft firm and solid in place.


Shaft bracket:











Also done a lil more to the.  The cross beam with red marker pen lines going across....this section will be cut out once rest of the frame is in place, (this is only to support the frame while im still building it) What you see in pic is just half of the frame complete. Once its all complete i will then cut the support piece out leaving a nice big hole to access the hull :) ...Oh, the batterys are just there as weights while i was fixing the bottom beams to hull using P40 :)





And finally, the prop shaft hole! I measured it up & lined it up with a length of 6mm dowel from B&Q which worked perfectly for marking out the areas for my rudder/prop & prop shaft/ lower keel etc ...I have to admit...i checked, double,trippple,quadrouple checked this just to make sure the measurements were correct! (touch wood!). But all seems good, at the mo the hole is just 6mm diamater, the shaft im getting i think is around 12-15mm, so im not going to cut the hole any bigger until the shaft arrives. The prop ive decided to opt for is the 5.1" 4 blade from prop-shop which is exact scale & will fit perfectly.


Before anyone says that the hole is not in line with the red spots! ..thats because those red spots were "guesstimates" from about a week ago using just my finger & bright light just to get a rough idea... which to be fair i wasn't far off lol :)



Just a quick pic of my man cave which at the mo is a boat yard :D
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Tid 65

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Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
« Reply #74 on: January 12, 2017, 10:07:32 AM »

Hi sorry not to get to you until now,hope your build is going well and ready for Ellesmere.my rudder is 12cm X 8.5cm aprox.be good to met you at Ellesmere and have a chat.
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