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Author Topic: what sub ??  (Read 14477 times)

portside II

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what sub ??
« on: August 15, 2007, 12:02:36 am »

OK i fancy getting into some hot water so to speak and having a bash with a sub .so as a first timer on the matter what should i start with.
Had a look at Pandan models and like the look of the Akula choice #1 as a dynamic diver.
had a look at North seas fleet Alpha,Kilo,L A models choices#2#3#4 as either dynamic or static .
Would prefer static then i can do both so that swings me over to #2,3,4 .these come A-RTR just fit your own radio and battery's and under you go ,
but what i want to know is there any of you sub-mariners out there that have experience of these kits and if they would be ok for a novice .
daz
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Mankster

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Re: what sub ??
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2007, 08:09:30 am »

I think the the NSF Alfa and Kilo do roll a little due to their small size ralative to their top weight, so the LA would be the best of the bunch. If your budget could strech a bit further, go for the Sheerline Akula. The exchange rate at the moment makes some the kits from the States seem cheap too, the Small World Models subs nearly RTR (less electronics)

Subculture

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Re: what sub ??
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2007, 10:00:01 am »

Not a combat model, and a bit more leftfield, but I reckon the Galathee is a good bet for a beginner-

http://www.lecma-rc.com/fiche_produit.php?prodid=606&rub=1&position=5


It comes complete with everything you need, minus radio and batteries, is CNC machined, so construction should be a snap. It's also small and very nimble.

You can paint it in bright colours, so it's easy to see underwater.

Andy
( Pictures saved to forum as they disappeared earlier when their site was down - Admin )
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Guy Bagley

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Re: what sub ??
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2007, 03:39:18 pm »

LOOKS GREAT..... RIGHT UP MY STREET AS IT WERE ! - NEVER SEEN ONE EITHER.....
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portside II

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Re: what sub ??
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2007, 04:28:20 pm »

well andy that looks great ,had a look on their web site and through the build instruction and it dont look that hard .
with a but more investigation i will see what their price is inc postage as that could be the stinger what with all that lead could be heavy??
daz
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portside II

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Re: what sub ??
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2007, 02:55:40 pm »

just had a reply from the retailers about  the Galathee and isn't not all that bad for the postage .
With the current exchange rate i could have the kit on my doorstep for 298.00 +19.00 postage ,that's euro's and converted to £ £ its around £219.00 .
I have now got to do some serious grovelling to swimbo and make some room in the shed ,and that as she says is not an option and not negotiable.
daz
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colin-stevens

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Re: what sub ??
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2007, 03:39:08 pm »

does look good, thanks for the info on price. subculture may well be due some kickbacks for that mention.
dont forget, if you go for it you have to post a build here. its the law.
good luck with her who must be obayed
colin
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Subculture

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Re: what sub ??
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2007, 08:17:47 pm »

Kickbacks! Yeah right, some hopes. Well I grow my own anyway.

The price sounds fair- you won't get a kit of that quality that is a static diver for less, that I can guarantee.

Robbe Seawolf is another good beginners kit, but it's a dynamic diver (can be converted to static, but you need to DIY).

I think you'll have a lot of fun with this model.

Andy
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portside II

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Re: what sub ??
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2007, 04:25:46 pm »

Well had a realy good offer of a sheerline trafalgar sub just add my own radio gear and battery and away i go .
Looks a realy great sub with all the plate markings on the hull and what a lovely prop (a piece of art on its own).
the only thing to concider is the, size she is big and i only have a small car and of course raise the reddies (pease dear) :angel:
daz
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Subculture

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Re: what sub ??
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2007, 08:33:09 pm »

The trafalgar kit underwent some modifications a couple of years or so ago.

This onvolved moving the batteries underneath the dive module. This improved the weight distribution, and greatly improved the handling of the boat.

I know a chap who owned an original Eden Traflagar model. It didn't like to turn, and the ballast tank wasn't baffled suffiently IMO.

I think mostr of the grumbles have been engineered out this model now.

Andy
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portside II

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Re: what sub ??
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2007, 06:55:31 am »

cheers Andy ,i was told of the mod's to the battery and if i got this one then the new battery could be easily fitted .
not sure about the wtc as i dont know much about these and the ballast tank .
daz
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sheerline

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Re: what sub ??
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2007, 05:47:50 pm »

Anything you need to know.... just ask!
Regards. Chris
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portside II

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Re: what sub ??
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2007, 10:31:48 pm »

Oh lot's of questions Chris .
firstly can i have one of your subs as a freeby  O0.
this sub i have been offered looks great ,but how is it for turning as we dint have the bigest of ponds or the deepest (about 2foot) can it be fitted with a bow thruster pump and can the forward diving planes be made bigger as i was told they only really work at speed under water.
and will the wtc fit into the akula shell as the only thing that holds me back is the length to get it in the car (-o- :-\-o-).

daz
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sheerline

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Re: what sub ??
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2007, 11:39:22 pm »

Hi Portside, I said you could ask but I didn't say you'd get... so thats the freeby question out of the way ;D
Firstly, the old Trafalgar had a large turning circle for a number of reasons;
The rudders are in front of the propulsor cone .. so no prop thrust enhancement. When surfaced, the upper rudder is out of the water. The rudders had limited throw due to the arrangement of the rudder coupling which impnged on the propshaft tube.
The above can be greatly improved by disposal of the rudder coupling arrangement and changing it to that found on the Akula..two control rods, one for each rudder, both going to a common point on the dive unit control rod.. dead easy! this allows for greater rudder throw and thus better turning circle. The first one I put together in this way turns in half the distance and submerged, is extremely good. It's a mod worth doing to all the old style Eden designed Trafs' and you should'nt need a bow thruster unless your pond is tiny.

Don't worry too much about the front planes ,I only ever use them for trimming at speed anyway. DO fit a self leveller however as it will make running  this boat so simple and relaxing.
 
The dive unit for the Akula will definately not operate your Trafalgar: A: it's too small and B: it has a direct drive whereas the Trafalgar unit uses a 5:1 reduction motor/box unit to enable it to turn that multibladed 50mm fan style prop.
 

Hope this helps.
Regards...Chris
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portside II

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Re: what sub ??
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2007, 07:53:16 am »

cheers Chris
thinking back to the one i saw ,yes i see what you mean about the rudder system been forward of the prop .
If the system was changed to the one used in the akula and (not seen one in reality only pic's)how would the top rudder connect as the top hull comes off with the rudder ??.
And it was would the dive unit from the Traf fit in the Akula not the other way round ,but you have allready answered that for me  ;D.
Anyway have still to sell some boats and raise the cash before swimbo grants her permission :D.
daz
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sheerline

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Re: what sub ??
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2007, 05:45:45 pm »

Hi Daz, The lower rudder control rod extends from the rudder control horn and fits into a brass interconnecting block which is attached to the dive unit control rod at the back of the dive unit. The upper rudder control rod extends from its control horn and is bent at 90 deg at the other end. This angled end drops into a hole in the interconnecting block which is feeding the lower rudder and now you have both rudder rods operating from the same point. It is arranged this way so when the top hull is lifted clear, the rod simply lifts out of the connector and allows the upper hull half to be separated totally forom the bottom half.
The home made equivalent is to make the control rods as I have described but insted of using my specially made brass connector, you can simply solder a small piece of brass tube to the lower rudder control rod and drop the upper rod into this as you fit the top hull half.
Using the above method means the rudder movement is not constrained by the propshaft and much more movement can be applied.
Let me know how you get on.....Good luck with your venture.
Regards....... Chris
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Mackenzie

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Re: what sub ??
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2007, 12:22:02 am »

Hi portside II
To add my comments.
If you are loking for a submarine that works, reliably, Sheerline fills all the criteria.
The after sales support from Chris is the best.
I have had TypeVII for 5 years, with only 2 problems and each time Chris could not have been more helpful in resolving problem, for minimal cost.
Other members of my club have purchased "cheaper" submarines which have in the end cost more, many have ended in the big black bag.
All submarines are a challenge to build and sail effectively.
Regards
Jim
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sheerline

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Re: what sub ??
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2007, 02:05:15 am »

All subs  have to be constructed to a good standard. It's not just a case of making something which works as that is relatively easy, the real deal is making something which works time and time again. Next to sending a probe to Mars, I can't really think of any machine which operates in such an aggressive and destructive environment as a submarine. The only way to make a sub work reliably under these conditions is  A; keep it simple and B: build it robustly.
Regards..Chris
PS. Hi Jim.... good to hear from you, pleased to hear your Type 7 is still active. O0 
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petesubman

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Re: what sub ??
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2007, 11:23:45 am »

your not really going to send a probe to mars........ are you chris......type 2d coming along nicely after far to many interruptions, floods being one of them, how are you chris, regards Pete
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sheerline

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Re: what sub ??
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2007, 02:14:09 pm »

Hi Pete, long time no hear, your ears must have been burning cos we were just talking about you the other day and wondering how you were  getting on. Glad to hear you're back on the Type2d again.. given all the rain we've had, I wonder you have'nt had to fit an anchor and chain to the kit box to stop it floating off down the high street! Just give me a call if you need anything.
Best regards... Chris
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Mackenzie

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Re: what sub ??
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2007, 11:00:57 pm »

Hi Chris,

Yes the type 7 is going strong, i sail it about every second week, although weed in the pond has prevented it lately.
The original battery is still working ok 5 years+ but the run time is down to approx 45min.

I agree with your comments, build to a good standard, keep it simple & robust it pays of in the end. Must try & post some pictures.


regards
Jim

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sheerline

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Re: what sub ??
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2007, 01:13:09 am »

Jim, I can't believe your battery is still going after five years! I knew they were more expensive than most others on the market but I reckon the extra cost is justified by the obvious longevity. I can only repeat what a friend of mine often says..
"pay a lot...lose a little....pay a little...lose a lot"! I guess you don't abuse the charging considerations either as I'm sure the cells would have rebelled by now. Good going!
Chris
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portside II

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Re: what sub ??
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2007, 05:31:39 pm »

Hi Chris .
looks like i will be picking your brains now Peter has accepted my adoption of his trafalgar (at a very reasonable price too).
have been looking on the web at the internals and not wanting to teach granny to suck eggs , the servo that acts as a cam for the pump switch and to close off the pipe ,while this area needs a strong servo would it work any better if the  there was a ball valve fitted to do the same job ,simular to the one used by plumbers
Hope to get her on tuesday when Peter comes to the pond .
daz
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sheerline

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Re: what sub ??
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2007, 09:27:10 pm »

Hi Daz good to hear you've got your sub. The servo which controls the cam isn't anything special but we usually specify one with a ballraced output shaft as it has a bit of sideloading whilst operating the cam. I normally specify a Futaba 3001 as this is a standard servo but with a ballrace fitted. The cam idea works fine and I would'nt recommend you try and change it. The idea of the piston and silicone tube valve means there are no shafts and seals to wear and leak such as you may encounter with a mechanical valve... it is a totally waterproof system and if you set it up as intended, you can pretty much garuantee you won't ever have to touch it again. I think if you ask any of the chaps on here who have had one, you will probably find very few who felt the need to alter it.
Go forth and enjoy!
Best regards.......... Chris
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Martin (Admin)

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Re: what sub ??
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2007, 10:19:20 pm »

My next build is a Sheerline Alfa.... stay tuned!  :o
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