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Author Topic: Engine Size and General Advice  (Read 10966 times)

Mark T

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Re: Engine Size and General Advice
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2016, 08:01:54 am »

Thanks both for the advice. I decided quite early on to try and stick to one manufacturer. This is purely down to my inexperience in this area and I like to think that I can go back to one source should I have any issues. As I have found this is not the cheapest route but as I get more experience and confidence no doubt that will change.


I will order the valves as separate items as I take your point about component location. Just out of interest is there a preference to which size pipe is used 3 or 4mm?

rhavrane

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Re: Engine Size and General Advice
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2016, 08:31:38 am »

Bonjour,
Derek, you say that in your country, the temperature is higher, so you should have more condensation problems. I am not a specialist but I feel without any real measure that a metal lubricator exchanges better temperature with air than a glass one and colder the air is better the condensation is. Most of my lubricators are fixed, with a hole of about 0,3 - 0,4 mm, I think your choice is correct because the variable adjustment does not seem to change anything in my case. With my Microcosm lubricator, it seem that the steam does not go in it, this is why I have enlarged the diameter of the intake pipe with a small drill. If nothinh changes, I have a Stuart lubricator, I will manage to install it to see if there is a difference.For information, as you know it, Anton lubricators are only fix and metal.About measures, I think we dream...

Mark, you make the good choice, Anton is expensive but fullly reliable before ad after the purchase.

About pipes, for our models I mean, the rule I note is that the exhaust ones are commonly 1 mm larger than the inlet one (except on my Cristal plant grrrrr....). 

Besides this, you have no choice because you have to respect the diameters of the Cristal machine pipes ==> I would recommend you to ask Anton which diameters he uses now. And of course, he will sell you compliant valves or other accessories with his products as soon as you accuratly tell him what you wish and where. 
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Raphaël
Raphaëlopoulos Steam Lines UnLimited
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derekwarner

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Re: Engine Size and General Advice
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2016, 10:09:22 am »

Bonjour Raphael

You are certainly correct that Brass metal has an approx.~~ x 10 fold ability to transfer heat over Boro Glass, however we should not confuse this thread for Mark

He appears to have made his decisions and we wish him well in his purchases & build

Derek
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Derek Warner

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Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op
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Mark T

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Re: Engine Size and General Advice
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2016, 06:08:21 pm »

I phoned Christine today and had a chat about the first stage of my order. Although she understood the major components, when we started talking a specification we both got a bit lost in the translation  %%


So I've sent her a translated email explaining how I intend to connect various items to the boiler such as a gas controller, whistle and water inlet for the pump and I have also asked the size of the pipe work that Fabrice uses so that I can order loose isolation valves.  Hopefully I'll get a reply soon

Mark T

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Re: Engine Size and General Advice
« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2016, 01:29:24 pm »

Derek / Raphael


Just to let you know that I have had my order confirmed which I'm really pleased about. Fabrice has advised me that the supply pipes are 3.5mm in diameter and the exhaust is slightly larger at 4mm. Also the boiler sizes are 6mm at the front of the boiler as he describes it and 8mm on the boiler body? Does this sound correct to you for my purpose as I have plenty of time to change the spec?


Thanks again Mark

derekwarner

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Re: Engine Size and General Advice
« Reply #30 on: November 22, 2016, 07:54:06 pm »

Mark......ANTON no longer displays boilers on his WEB site however the following would appear to apply..

3.5mm OD tubing will ~~ equate back down to 1/8" OD tube
4.0mm OD tubing will directly suit 5/32" nuts & cones
6.0mm as previously suggested will be an M6 screwed tapping for the steam discharge
M6 tapping's will probably be used for the water gauge and relief valve, however again I assume these are being supplied
8.0mm is assumed as the M8 screwed tapping for the water inlet

Fabrice will certainly have at his disposal electronic copies of his boiler construction and should make one available to you as your British Club Boiler Inspector may wish to view the construction detail

This latter point [Australian Boiler inspection] was a direct experience for me, however thankfully I was able to confirm construction detail for my Scottish ACS manufactured boiler

Derek
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Mark T

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Re: Engine Size and General Advice
« Reply #31 on: November 22, 2016, 08:56:47 pm »

Thanks Derek you have confirmed what I had thought. I will ask for the plans of the boiler as I really had not considered this and will hopefully make life a little easier later on  :-))

rhavrane

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Re: Engine Size and General Advice
« Reply #32 on: November 22, 2016, 09:37:37 pm »


Bonjour Mark,

Generally speaking, in France, when we talk about 6 mm diameter, we mean 6x75 and 8 mm means 8x100. Warning, there are thin and large threads for every diameter so we have to be accurate because a 8x75 male is close but not usable in a 8x100 female !

I have never noticed 3,5 mm pipes but 3 mm for inlet pipes, I am surprized by this figure.

On my boilers, when I ordered them, I have asked 6x75 on the sides but 6x75 and 8x100 on the top, depending on on the accessories added (for example, most of my safety valves and filling caps  are 8 x 100 when the steam  or the whistle  valves are 6 x 75.

When you buy a boiler, you have often only 3 accesses on the top and you are obliged to fill the boiler with the safety valve.

I am sure that french and english measures are not compatible even if they look close (close does not mean equal) ==> I would strongly suggest you to ask all the needed nuts and olives to Fabrice for all the fittings.

If he does not build any boiler currently, I know he knows someone who does, so you can also ask him for a quotation and you can ask your specifications, especially if you wish options like a check valve for a pump by example. This is my problem with my Microsocm boiler, no acces enough for a pump and imperial nuts...
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Raphaël
Raphaëlopoulos Steam Lines UnLimited
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Mark T

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Re: Engine Size and General Advice
« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2016, 03:59:58 am »

Hi Raphael


I've checked the sizes and you are quite right. Fabrice said that the M6 is 0.75 and the M8 is 1.00. I was intending on getting all of the fittings from Anton as the range is very good. I have confirmed that I require 4 - 6mm outlets for the boiler so hopefully all will be well. Luckily I'm in no rush to get all of the parts that I require for now I'm just getting the main parts


Mark

rhavrane

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Re: Engine Size and General Advice
« Reply #34 on: November 23, 2016, 07:18:49 am »

Bonjour Mark,

To my OWN opinion, only 6 x 75 is not the good option fr the top of the boiler. When I asked boilers, I used to asl 2  6x75 for the steam and the whistle valves and 2 8 x 100 for the safety valve (check if 6x75 safety valves exists) and the filling plug which need place to accept a pipe.


I would have greatly appreciate that other members give also their opinions... 
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Raphaël
Raphaëlopoulos Steam Lines UnLimited
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Mark T

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Re: Engine Size and General Advice
« Reply #35 on: November 23, 2016, 07:59:06 am »

Hi Raphael


You are quite correct - it's my fault for not explaining myself better  :embarrassed:  There are two 8mm ports on the top of the boiler and I have tried to attach a picture of it that Fabrice sent me. Hopefully it Will work but I'm doing this from my phone. If it doesn't I'll post it up on Friday when I get home


Mark

rhavrane

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Re: Engine Size and General Advice
« Reply #36 on: November 23, 2016, 07:06:52 pm »

Bonjour Mark,
Ah ! the language barrier ... "Tout est bien qui finit bien"  :-))
Always at your disposal if you need further information.
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Raphaël
Raphaëlopoulos Steam Lines UnLimited
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Mark T

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Re: Engine Size and General Advice
« Reply #37 on: November 23, 2016, 07:15:42 pm »

Bonjour Raphaël Merci beaucoup mon ami  :-)

Mark T

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Re: Engine Size and General Advice
« Reply #38 on: June 16, 2017, 08:00:59 am »

A small thread resurrection here  %%


Well having waited 7 months for my order from Anton to arrive - it's still not here so I have cancelled my order  <:( . He is very busy manufacturing and also moving workshops at the same time which has delayed my order quite substantially. I will go back to Fabrice at some point in the future as his work is amazing but I am really missing building so I need a plan B


As I have said I want to build the Anteo tug which is 900mm long. I am now unsure which way to go with the steam plant. The options I'm thinking about are


1.  A TRV1A engine and maybe speak to someone like Tony Green about the boiler side of things. I am unsure however of the actual size of this engine and whether it will be suitable. I don't want to fit an oscillating engine into this build


2.  Buy the whole lot from Microcosm as I have now read so many good things about them


As always your thoughts would be very much appreciated as I've got to get building again soon


Mark

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Re: Engine Size and General Advice
« Reply #39 on: June 16, 2017, 06:10:34 pm »

Bonjour Mark,
A friend, Guy, has built an Anteo of 1,20 m and 27 kilos, equipped with a TVR1A : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1B6etQ30b8
Please take in account that it is a 8 cm3 engine which needs a large boiler if you wish some autonomy.


I have a Microcosm plant in my tug "Vient de loin" which is similar in size to Anteo : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOgJV8Xc7qU
the engine is only "6,78" cm3 but the boiler is very small and the autonomy is about 20 minutes with a gentle use of the boat and the whistle ==> I have bought an electric pump (Microcosm) but did not find yet where to install it ==>  would strongly recommand you to take, if you choose it, the engine with its coupled water pump.
Otherwise, you can find french smaller machines with Anton (sorry for the current unpleasantness) or JMC manufacturers who makes a very nice 5 cm3 which is in my 11 kilos tug Jacques : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oppu7Mbj4X8  and even a 3 cm3 in my 11 kilos drifter Osprey : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlSgIe1JsHY
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Raphaël
Raphaëlopoulos Steam Lines UnLimited
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Mark T

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Re: Engine Size and General Advice
« Reply #40 on: June 16, 2017, 06:32:46 pm »

Hi Raphael


Great to hear from you again  :-)   Your friends Anteo is lovely and the installation of his steam plant is amazing.  The Anteo that I want to build is 890mm long so its quite a bit smaller than your friends.  I was thinking about installing either a TVR1A and fitting a mechanical boiler feed pump as I understand that one of the members on this forum may possibly make them.


Or I was thinking of fitting this http://www.microcosm-engine.com/new-twocylinder-steam-engine-live-steam-with-steam-boiler-p-113.html#.WUQUUzPMyRs


Its a lovely engine and it can also be supplied with a mechanical boiler feed pump but I'm not sure of its to big for the model.  I'm not talking about power but about physical size?  What do you think?


Mark

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Re: Engine Size and General Advice
« Reply #41 on: June 16, 2017, 06:47:26 pm »

Bonjour Mark,
It is exactly the steam plant I have in my tug "Vient de lion", this is why I think that the same one with the coupled pump could just just go in 90 cm. Bad luck, I do not see the evolution of his engine on his site (I will ask him if he sells it, we are in touch).
 The best would be to have everything on one platinum to introduce it easily in the boat  example : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHN5lmppT0g
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Raphaël
Raphaëlopoulos Steam Lines UnLimited
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Mark T

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Re: Engine Size and General Advice
« Reply #42 on: June 16, 2017, 07:03:39 pm »

Yes this is what I was planning - to have the whole plant on one platform so that it can be removed for easy maintenance etc.  I have emailed Jin at Microcosm to see what he thinks and I have also emailed Cornwall Model Boats which is where I would buy my kit form to see what they think also.  Fingers crossed!

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Re: Engine Size and General Advice
« Reply #43 on: June 16, 2017, 08:20:23 pm »

Hi Tony,

Why not use Cheddar for the boiler side? Tim can certainly help with the specification/needs.
I've recently purchased one from him through Clevedon and it's absolutely spot on, even though it was to a modified design. Price and delivery were both very realistic.
As far as tugs are concerned I remember using a Cheddar boiler with a York engine years ago on a 36inch/19lb Saint class rescue tug with a 70mm prop. Plenty of power and plenty of steam, even for a heavyweight oscillator.

TonyH
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Mark T

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Re: Engine Size and General Advice
« Reply #44 on: June 17, 2017, 04:05:54 pm »

Hi Tony


Thanks for the advice.  I've dropped Tim an email with my specifications so I'll see what he says.  Just out of interest how long did it take for your boiler to arrive after you ordered it?


Mark

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Re: Engine Size and General Advice
« Reply #45 on: June 17, 2017, 07:46:03 pm »

Hi Mark,

Sent drawings to Cheddar via Gerry at Clevedon Steam at the end of November - Received boiler latter half of February, again via Gerry who supplied all the bits to go with it except for the separator which was an odd design I built to suit the boat.
I also made the bedplate because the boiler was horizontal and offset from the centre line by 5mm but the engine was on the centre line and angled down by a few degrees.

Tony

PS Apologies for renaming you - It's an age thing :embarrassed:
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Mark T

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Re: Engine Size and General Advice
« Reply #46 on: June 17, 2017, 09:10:31 pm »

Thanks Tony - three months for something bespoke is a very good lead time.  I'm actually not looking for anything special but I'll see what Tim says when he comes back to me.  Originally I wanted to buy the whole system from one supplier but over the months I've learned so much that this is not such an issue for me anymore.  I just want to get it right so cheers again for the help  :-))

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Re: Engine Size and General Advice
« Reply #47 on: June 18, 2017, 08:42:24 am »

Hi Mark,
I've just discovered your thread. I think Anton  would have been a good choice, too bad he can't deliver.
Since you'd like to buy all steam parts from one source, have you checked out Regner in Germany? http://www.regner-dampftechnik.de
They have a fery varied offer (steam locomotives, boilers, marine engines etc) and also very good after sales service.
Cheers,
Calin
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Re: Engine Size and General Advice
« Reply #48 on: June 18, 2017, 09:45:37 pm »

Bonjour,
A 92 cm Anteo with a Gage TVR1A : https://youtu.be/XrKd4jzpl30  :-))
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Raphaël
Raphaëlopoulos Steam Lines UnLimited
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Mark T

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Re: Engine Size and General Advice
« Reply #49 on: June 20, 2017, 07:28:17 am »

I would just like to thank everyone for their input on this thread. I have at last after speaking to many people placed an order with Nigel at Pendle steam. He is making me the boiler, seperator and gas tank. He was extremely helpful even to the point where he asked me how I was mounting the boiler. I said that I was mounting it on a plate so he's putting some small feet on it with a BA thread tapped in to make the job easier for me. I'm really looking forward to receiving my order in a few weeks. I'll get some photos up when it does.


I've also ordered a TVR1ABB motor and one of the members on this forum is making a boiler feed pump for me which really sealed the deal for me with taking this route. I've just got to be patient now!
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