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Author Topic: Resurrecting the K Class  (Read 12776 times)

Bob K

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Re: Resurrecting the K Class - Test Tank
« Reply #75 on: February 20, 2017, 04:28:59 PM »

HMS K9.  Test Tank

The hull for HMS K9 is too long for the bath !

The dual purpose test tank was fabricated from 5.5mm plywood, sixty inches long, seven inches wide, and eight and a half inches deep.  Corners will be reinforced with wood mouldings, pined and glued.  It will be temporarily lined with pond liner for ballasting and buoyancy tests. 

After commissioning the plywood tank will be converted into a transit case for the submarine, to protect the vulnerable planes, rudder, props, upper-works and masts.  All it will need is to replace the waterproof liner with shaped foam hull supports and end protectors.  The height of the box will be sufficient to guard the two radio masts, one of which will double as a snorkel for the low pressure air pump. 



Fuse ?

There is no mention anywhere in the info about fitting a fuse.  Strange, as a LiPo battery has the potential to deliver extreme current for short periods.  I intend to fit a two bladed 15A car type fuse and holder in the battery compartment.

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Re: Resurrecting the K Class
« Reply #76 on: February 20, 2017, 05:35:10 PM »

Is the coffin shape a bit of dark humour?

Bob K

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Re: Resurrecting the K Class
« Reply #77 on: February 20, 2017, 07:21:59 PM »

Is the coffin shape a bit of dark humour?

Not at all Subculture.  The case is tapered at one end to fit diagonally in my small car. 

The "short" end fits more easily in the corner of the rear seat behind me.  The width allows plenty of clearance for the delicate dive planes when lowered into the shaped foam cradle for transit.  Three inches each at front and rear for bow and stern protectors.  The 53 inch hull, at 1/96, indicates how large these submarines really were.  The model will be longer than many modern warships at the same scale.


HMS K3 under way


HMS K3 model at Gosport
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Re: Resurrecting the K Class
« Reply #78 on: February 24, 2017, 07:58:33 PM »

Hiya Bob


Excellent work on the resurrection, I've just bought two 1/350 scale models kits of the two types of K class sub- as built and the swan bow, they are produced by Mikr Mir and after starting to build the original type it goes together well so I've got some inspiration not only from yourself but a completed model (albeit smaller). :-))
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Nick B

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Bob K

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Re: Resurrecting the K Class
« Reply #79 on: February 24, 2017, 08:42:36 PM »

Thank you Nick.  As you know I have a penchant for unusual warships.  Glad your 1/350 scale K Boats are going together well.  I prefer the original version myself.  The bulbous swan bows may have been a more seaworthy improvement but somehow made them look visually odd.  My build is going to be a long one as almost everything so far seems like a specialist 'black art', virtually a 'scratch'.  I have spent 4 days trying to contact Prop Shop to try to source the unusual four bladed propellers, which will define the positioning of the special sliding prop shafts. 

The 'coffer' (not coffin) is nearly completed. Just needs finishing and some pond liner.  The wet testing will be complicated by all accounts.  With the dive module in place I can start planning all the internal linkages, for which I have acquired a small pillar drill.  Brass bushes with silver soldered arms, and grub screws. 

I am trying to avoid thinking about building the detailed superstructure at this stage, the part I will enjoy most.

PS:  Good luck with completing the train ferry deck planking before going back to the Med'.  Can't wait to see your Dad's inter-funnel girder completed.
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Re: Resurrecting the K Class
« Reply #80 on: February 24, 2017, 08:50:14 PM »

They have moved the rebuilt bevel gear exhibit that used to live in the Submarine. A sub stripped its drive gear and the engineer aboard had to rebuild the teeth using a drill, lengths of rod and hand files to shape the rods to match the teeth all while trying not to be discovered by the enemy in WW2.

They were a hard bunch Submariners  :-))

Look on the bright side Bob, you are learning so much about this project it will soon match Poly in the challenge stakes.
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Bob K

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Re: Resurrecting the K Class - Props & Shafts
« Reply #81 on: February 27, 2017, 04:16:08 PM »

HMS K9.  Prop & Shafts

Moving on from the Coffer (not coffin), the next fiddly bits are the prop shafts.  These are designed for dog-bone couplings and imperial size shafts.  Of necessity space is very tight due to having to fit the dive module as far aft as possible, and also results in the shafts being slightly angled to the motor couplings. 

The outer shafts go through the hull, aimed to line up with the motor couplings then shortened to around 120 mm.  “A” frames to be fitted at the rear.  Rather than use a 1/8” dia shaft I am using 3 mm (for M3 shafts) with a thin coat of paint on the inside of the 1/8 coupling. Only 0,2 mm difference, but . . .

I was so impressed by Albion’s sliding telescopic square-tube shafts with internal springs, and am trying to replicate these.  Dog-bones cut in half, the ends fitted with screws into the outermost square tubes.  The slightly larger sliding tubes have stainless springs that maintain compression on the dog-bones, whilst allowing latitude for dive module removal.  The entire shaft system is in the flooded part of the hull so will need to be cleaned and lubed regularly.

Getting suitable props took some time.  After almost a week of calls and emails to Prop Shop I still had no response.  The nearest non-custom I could find were Raboesch 4 bladed type “D”.  Unfortunately Dean’s were out of stock, but I was able to order them from Cornwall Model Boats.  … but a week lost !



While the props are on their way I thought I should start work on the hull perforations.  Plenty around the keel, plus a series of rectangular ones along the hull.  Not much visible on top apart from superstructure, so I need to ensure that there are enough elsewhere to prevent air being trapped especially at the bow and stern. 
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Bob K

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Re: Resurrecting the K Class - Venting the hull
« Reply #82 on: February 28, 2017, 03:06:45 PM »

HMS K9.  Venting the hull

Very little information online as to how the free flooding volumes were vented, apart from rectangular openings along the sides of the hull and rows of small holes almost on the waterline of the bows.  Lots of tank vent caps, but I need holes to avoid trapping air inside.  So, I am putting some in where needed.  A long line of slots in the keel (I know, these are the drop keels) and patterns of small holes atop the bow and stern ends. 
The removable upper section of the hull will rely on venting through the superstructure.

(  Not sure how clear the small holes will appear on this photo of the 1.35 m long hull  )



Below are the style of propellers I have ordered.  Not too dissimilar from the photo in my last post.



When the props and shafts arrive I can start building the sprung-telescopic drive system. 
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Bob K

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Re: Resurrecting the K Class - Hull halves joining
« Reply #83 on: March 03, 2017, 04:45:18 PM »

HMS K9.  Hull halves joining

Waiting for prop shafts so started on joining the two halves of the GRP hull parts.  To start with there was quite a bit of mismatch on the joint edges, which is to be expected.  Started by linishing the edges using a large sheet of emery on a flat board.  Then fine-dressed the joint edges with a long fine file to gradually reduce high spots.  Eventually got a reasonably good joint line. 



A 2mm thick strip of styrene on the inside edge for the hull bottom front, with a 1 mm alloy bracket epoxied under the leading edge of the hull top to provide a location support.  An alloy strip under the rear edge of the hull lip for a fixing point. Lastly two layers of litho strips along the inner horizontal edges to  complete the hull location supports.



Well, whilst I was doing that the prop shafts have arrived. 
Now I can get onto the sliding telescopic tube shaft adaptors.  More on that soon . . .

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Re: Resurrecting the K Class
« Reply #84 on: March 03, 2017, 08:44:45 PM »

Hi bob, I always thought k's had 3 blade props.
Adam
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Bob K

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Re: Resurrecting the K Class
« Reply #85 on: March 03, 2017, 10:14:27 PM »

Hi bob, I always thought k's had 3 blade props.
Adam

Hi Adam.   See photo in Reply #82 below, 28 February
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Re: Resurrecting the K Class
« Reply #86 on: March 04, 2017, 05:30:28 PM »

Adam is correct, they are three blade props. Look at 2:20 on this dive of the wreck of K17.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nFUYhxB3T8

Bob K

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Re: Resurrecting the K Class
« Reply #87 on: March 04, 2017, 06:50:04 PM »

K4 definitely had four bladed props, of the round blade style as in the photo below, rather than the more pointed type in that video clip of K17.  They were produced in seven separate shipyards.  K17 was the last built before resdesigning them as monitors and an seaplane carrier.  K18, 19 & 20 became M1 to M3 and were not steam powered.

I am sticking with the clear photo of HMS K4's 4 bladed prop, taken when she ran aground on Walney Island in 1917, which also matches the plans I have.
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Re: Resurrecting the K Class
« Reply #88 on: March 04, 2017, 07:02:02 PM »

But looking at the pictures, the props look more like three blade to me.

I can only see a pair of blades in the picture, but if four blade then the two blades pictured would be at ninety degrees to one another, but they're not. They look more like 120 degrees to me.

Bob K

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Re: Resurrecting the K Class
« Reply #89 on: March 04, 2017, 07:16:03 PM »

Looks quite clear to me.  You can see the 'rounded' blades, at 90 degrees radially.



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Re: Resurrecting the K Class
« Reply #90 on: March 04, 2017, 07:49:12 PM »

Hi Bob


Unfortunately it looks like you fell into the same trap as me, this picture from K-Boats should clear things up.




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Nick B

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Re: Resurrecting the K Class
« Reply #91 on: March 04, 2017, 08:03:06 PM »

The red is a 90 degree angle. nowhere near the middle of the second blade.

Bob K

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Re: Resurrecting the K Class
« Reply #92 on: March 04, 2017, 08:32:05 PM »

You can't argue with photographic evidence.  If there were only 3 blades those two would be at 120 degree, and they clearly are not.  You can also see part of the third blade with the bottom of the rudder slightly overlapping it.
You can't see the 4th blade as it is underwater.    No - don't try to say it is an optical illusion as it is 180 degrees from the port-most blade, and at least part of the blade would be visible even if it were a triple .

We can clearly see three of the blades, two of which are at 180 degrees.
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Re: Resurrecting the K Class
« Reply #93 on: March 04, 2017, 08:40:43 PM »

Just to throw some more confusion it looks like K26 had at one point have four bladed propellers judging by a drawing in Paul Akermann's book Encyclopaedia of British Submarines 1901-1955.


I've had a quick swim through the technical bits in both books I've mentioned and it doesn't confirm the propeller design but it does go in to some detail about engine and shaft layout and designs but never mentions the props other than that there were two of them!
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Nick B

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Re: Resurrecting the K Class
« Reply #94 on: March 04, 2017, 09:52:33 PM »

Can't see any third blade in that picture, just two.

Here's the same image with a line also at 120 degrees, that to me looks broadly in line with centre of the blade.

Bob K

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Re: Resurrecting the K Class
« Reply #95 on: March 04, 2017, 10:29:01 PM »

Nick, you are right in that all the technical data goes on about everything in the propulsion system except the number of blades.  As you know I have been researching these on and off for six years and I must have just about everything published on them.  At the time built, and designing for maximum speed, four blades were also used for many surface ships.  I am currently re-trawling the "K Boats" book for the umpteenth time.

Personally I am satisfied with my decision based on the evidence I have.
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Re: Resurrecting the K Class
« Reply #96 on: March 05, 2017, 03:55:09 PM »

The Micro Mir kit shows 4 bladed props on K4: http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234986377-british-k-class-submarine-mikro-mir-1350-scale/

Also the photo here taken from the bow shows the 4 bladed prop very clearly: https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/k-for-katastrophe-the-odyssey-of-k-class-submarines-in-the-royal-navy.366780/

The photo taken from the stern is distorted, probably due to the lens being used which makes the prop look disproportionately large.

Colin
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Re: Resurrecting the K Class
« Reply #97 on: March 05, 2017, 04:48:42 PM »

I don't know if this helps or if it complicates things but the propulsion specs in the general characteristics box here show three blades:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_K-class_submarine

 and the instructions for the 1/350th model show three blades:

http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/ships/hms/k-class/350-cs/k-class-05.jpg
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Re: Resurrecting the K Class
« Reply #98 on: March 05, 2017, 04:49:50 PM »


OK, we'll leave the three, four propeller question at that,  it's Bob's interpretation and decision after all.

Not unheard of for ship makers to use different types of props after test, trails and refits.

   ..... moving on!   :-))
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Re: Resurrecting the K Class
« Reply #99 on: March 05, 2017, 05:51:31 PM »

Has my post has been deleted. If so on what grounds?
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