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Author Topic: Tug Towing Courses & Rules and R/C Scale Steering  (Read 909 times)

destroyer42

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Tug Towing Courses & Rules and R/C Scale Steering
« on: April 13, 2017, 04:06:46 PM »

Hi All,
our local club is looking to re-introduce tug towing, what are the rules that clubs use?
Also steering courses do clubs set out their courses to accommodate all sizes of models as currently some of our members feel that they would like to have a go and it's something that needs up grading and made more fun as some members feel intimidated by the more experienced members around a steering course.
I for one would like to see a steering course laid out to accommodate all sizes of model and maybe a penalty put against those models which are small, or have bow thrusters, steerable kort nozzles etc. which are not on the real model.
What's you views and how does your club carry out tug towing and steering courses?

Destroyer42
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Tug Towing Courses & Rules and R/C Scale Steering
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2017, 04:48:13 PM »

Glynn Guest, Andy Cope and I have been trying to stimulate some discussion about this on the new MPBA website forum, without much success at the moment but you can read it here: http://www.mpba.org.uk/community/main-forum/your-mpba/paged/1/

Andy has also published a link to the steering courses used by the Southend club which has a good selection of workable layouts here:
http://www.smpbc.co.uk/2015-scale-series.html

I think it would be good to see more scale steering events, they need not be particularly competitive but there is much satisfaction in putting your boat through its paces in a way that exercises your handling skills rather than just swanning around the lake in rather aimless circles! Scale steering used to be a thriving competitive scene and while I think a lot of people are no longer into intense competition, that doesn't mean that a lot of fun could not be had from a more relaxed regime with just friendly rivalry.

I don't know much about tug towing myself but no doubt someone will be able to supply information. It is another area where ship handling skills can be demonstrated on a team basis and means you can actually use your model tug in a similar way to the full size prototype which has to be a good thing.

Glynn and I would like to see the MPBA sponsor a good open steering event somewhere reasonably central to attract as many people as possible. Realistically it would need to be hosted by an existing club which has a readymade set of hazards and obstacles and the organisation to stage it.

Colin
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Pirate

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Re: Tug Towing Courses & Rules and R/C Scale Steering
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2017, 05:01:24 PM »

Hi, I am the competition secretary for (Lincoln) 'Hartsholme Electric MBC'.
    We have been doing steering courses for 35 years and tug towing for the past 5 in seriousness. Our rules are the same for any competition, Penalties are given as ; 10 points for a wrong course deliberate or otherwise, 2 points for every touch/scrape against an object in the course either by the tug or tow (vessel), 3 attempts at any particular part of a course such as the touching of a bell buoy or attempt at docking betwixt two fixed points (thus failure after 3 attempts incurs a 10 point penalty). We have found that for scale steering events a minimum length of vessel of 21" is applicable and within tug tow a contestant may use whatever he deems fit (as it is by experience that no particular drive system is superior to another when it comes down to the pressures of guiding a barge/s through a challenging course!!) All objects are of uniform distance apart (1 yrd/m) making gates to steer through. The courses are diagrammed in colour and set out as near to the map as is possible. Start and finish gates are designated by red and green bouys (Port and starboard). A demonstration run is verbally given or even shown by the secretary so as all competitors have no excuse. Although good humour and discretion rule the day. If you would like any further details, I am more than happy to share photos of objects, courses etc


Good luck to you all
Pirate
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Tug Towing Courses & Rules and R/C Scale Steering
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2017, 05:17:24 PM »

 
Topic renamed on request....
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Butts

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Re: Tug Towing Courses & Rules and R/C Scale Steering
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2017, 06:47:02 PM »

At Balne Moor MBC we have operated tug competitions for many years.  Our rules have been posed on this Forum before.
I've tried to put them as an attachment to this post, but the file size is currently too big.


I'll persevere and find a way to post them again.

Butts

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Re: Tug Towing Courses & Rules and R/C Scale Steering
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2017, 07:28:37 PM »

Destroyer42,


The easiest way to see our tug towing rules is to have a look at our website.


Use the link below and look at our tug and scale page, the tug towing rules are printed there.


Hope this helps


Michael

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Re: Tug Towing Courses & Rules and R/C Scale Steering
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2017, 07:31:20 PM »



I think it would be good to see more scale steering events, they need not be particularly competitive but there is much satisfaction in putting your boat through its paces in a way that exercises your handling skills rather than just swanning around the lake in rather aimless circles! Scale steering used to be a thriving competitive scene and while I think a lot of people are no longer into intense competition, that doesn't mean that a lot of fun could not be had from a more relaxed regime with just friendly rivalry.


I couldn't agree more with those sentiments. It used to be fun going to a model boat regatta watching the thrills AND spills of skippers manoeuvring their models round a well thought out course. Nowadays you are lucky if you see a couple of buoys laid out to sail round.


Jim.
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Butts

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Re: Tug Towing Courses & Rules and R/C Scale Steering
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2017, 08:31:21 AM »

Glynn Guest, Andy Cope and I have been trying to stimulate some discussion about this on the new MPBA website forum, without much success at the moment but you can read it here: http://www.mpba.org.uk/community/main-forum/your-mpba/paged/1/

Andy has also published a link to the steering courses used by the Southend club which has a good selection of workable layouts here:
http://www.smpbc.co.uk/2015-scale-series.html

I think it would be good to see more scale steering events, they need not be particularly competitive but there is much satisfaction in putting your boat through its paces in a way that exercises your handling skills rather than just swanning around the lake in rather aimless circles! Scale steering used to be a thriving competitive scene and while I think a lot of people are no longer into intense competition, that doesn't mean that a lot of fun could not be had from a more relaxed regime with just friendly rivalry.

I don't know much about tug towing myself but no doubt someone will be able to supply information. It is another area where ship handling skills can be demonstrated on a team basis and means you can actually use your model tug in a similar way to the full size prototype which has to be a good thing.

Glynn and I would like to see the MPBA sponsor a good open steering event somewhere reasonably central to attract as many people as possible. Realistically it would need to be hosted by an existing club which has a readymade set of hazards and obstacles and the organisation to stage it.

Colin


As many Mayhemers will be aware, Balne Moor MBC is renowned for its tug-towing activities.  We are more fortunate than many clubs as our pond is on private land so we are able to leave harbours and buoys etc in-situ for the season.
For many years our programme of events included an MPBA Challenge Shield each October.  That competition was in the 3-2-1 format where teams of tuggers towed vessels around courses set for a single tow, two tugs towing and all three tugs working together.  The MPBA withdrew its support for the event in 2016, saying they were no longer interested in supporting scale sailing and tug towing.
Our final event of the season is now sponsored by Svitzer Tugs.  We also have a scale steering and tug towing event sponsored by Norther Winches.


Regarding scale-steering, we too have found people are less interested in serious competition but do enjoy the challenge of a set course.  Last year we introduced a self-scoring system akin to golfing which proved so popular we are continuing with it.  For challenge events, the top three scoring sailors will go again with an independent judge.  Tug-towing competitions are still judged independently throughout.

BFSMP

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Re: Tug Towing Courses & Rules and R/C Scale Steering
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2017, 09:21:27 PM »


Regarding scale-steering, we too have found people are less interested in serious competition but do enjoy the challenge of a set course.  Last year we introduced a self-scoring system akin to golfing which proved so popular we are continuing with it.  For challenge events, the top three scoring sailors will go again with an independent judge.  Tug-towing competitions are still judged independently throughout.


Having never been to Wickstead, and probably never will get there due to mobility problems, I could never comment upon what does or should go on there, but it seems to be a consensus of opinion that it would be nice to have some sort of competition running throughout the weekend of the Wickstead "regatta" with a prize for the winner  appropriate to the competition, and as such why not hold a tug towing competition.


If there are any members from the Balne Moor MBC going for the weekend, who seem expert in this field of competition, perhaps they could meet with Colin Bishop (whom I agree with about making these meetings more interesting) and who has immense knowledge himself of the MPBA rules and regulations for such competition from what I read, at Wickstead and between them , come up with a course for tug towing. Perhaps Wickstead club could lend the buoys and other paraphernalia for setting out such a course.


Then if it all went well, then change the type of course and competition for next year to another type of craft, with Colin officiating again.


Just an idea and input even if sadly I can't attend.


Jim.
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Re: Tug Towing Courses & Rules and R/C Scale Steering
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2017, 10:44:39 PM »

Hi All,
our local club is looking to re-introduce tug towing, what are the rules that clubs use?
Also steering courses do clubs set out their courses to accommodate all sizes of models as currently some of our members feel that they would like to have a go and it's something that needs up grading and made more fun as some members feel intimidated by the more experienced members around a steering course.
I for one would like to see a steering course laid out to accommodate all sizes of model and maybe a penalty put against those models which are small, or have bow thrusters, steerable kort nozzles etc. which are not on the real model.
What's you views and how does your club carry out tug towing and steering courses?

Destroyer42

    Hi I thought you would have contacted Ray Malone your top man at Tug towing. Ray has had many a trip to Balne Moor & also we
    have been down to South End towing. Here is the layout of our pond at the moment, where we can have towing & scale steering at
    the same time, we found that some members was not interested in towing or did not have a tug all though a tug was offered to tow
    with, so on a towing regatta we felt that the scale boys should also have a go, so if it's towing, scale have a sail, if it's scale day
    towers have a go, every body happy :-))

    John
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Re: Tug Towing Courses & Rules and R/C Scale Steering
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2017, 11:07:57 PM »


   Hi  You mention grading,  We go for Large & Small boat, a boat over 40" is classed as Large, the rest is classed as small, we
   combined one course into two by putting a slip off for the large boat, then it comes back onto the main course. If you build your
   course right you will find the model at 34"/36" with bells & whistles will have a hard time, hope this helps & makes sense.

   John   
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Re: Tug Towing Courses & Rules and R/C Scale Steering
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2017, 11:12:55 PM »


   Hi  These are the rules we tow by.

   John
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Re: Tug Towing Courses & Rules and R/C Scale Steering
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2017, 11:17:45 PM »

    This is a old towing course. one man tow

    John
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destroyer42

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Re: Tug Towing Courses & Rules and R/C Scale Steering
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2017, 06:55:07 PM »

Hi All,
Many thanks for your reply's and comments, unfortunately like a lot of clubs our steering course and tug towing is rather undescribed and I'm looking to resurrect it.
A lot of members complain that the course are either to complicated or their boat is to big to go around the course. What distance do other clubs have between buoys gates etc being in mind some members only sail scale warships which can be 6 feet long?
Do you dock points for any enhancements that are not on the real ship like bow thrusters, kort nozzle's which are not on the real model?
I want to make it a bit more fun rather than the seriousness it currently is, thus putting off the majority, you views would be appreciated.

Destroyer 42
 
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ray123

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Re: Tug Towing Courses & Rules and R/C Scale Steering
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2017, 10:30:41 PM »

i dont think the course's we have at  southend are that challenging  colin as the last regatta  steve b  took part with a boat he never used before  getting 2  clear round's   & getting first place!!  beating both me & frank who have taken part in many regattas over the years  well done steve!!


most of us do build models that are true to scale have the same running gear as the real ship  ie- kort nozzels bow thrusters  even voith units  theres  lots of boats out there that are built useing ''modellers licence''
i personally  think if you start docking points because the model has a bow thruster or a steering nozzel or voiths  not many will want to take part in doing the courses  =taking the fun out of things !! 
what i think is to make a different course each time   so no one gets used to the same courses 


 
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Tug Towing Courses & Rules and R/C Scale Steering
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2017, 10:45:58 PM »

It wasn't my suggestion to start docking points for boats with bow thrusters etc. If you have a decent course then the most important thing is to know how your boat responds. My best steering boat was always a single screw tramp steamer. No complicated controls but it was very handy round the courses. Having lots of thrusters etc. can just make things overcomplicated sometimes so there isn't always the advantage you might expect.

Anyway, these days I think it is just fun to test yourself around a course irrespective of what others are doing. If you have built your  boat then it is always very satisfying to explore how it responds around an interesting course. Doesn't really matter if you win anything or not. It's still more interesting than just sailing around in circles.

Colin
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Re: Tug Towing Courses & Rules and R/C Scale Steering
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2017, 10:51:19 PM »

its not you colin bishop  its destroyer 42  who is also a colin  :-))   i cant agree more  though  you can have a model with all the bells & whistles  but its how you drive it that counts  :-))   
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Re: Tug Towing Courses & Rules and R/C Scale Steering
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2017, 12:56:52 AM »

 Interesting debate.
I was a member of SMPBC for over 10 years until I emigrated south.  There were many great days at the club on both steering and towing regattas with up to 50 boats at the water side in the 90’s & 00’s until the moaners started taking over………………….‘It’s too windy, ‘that’s too tight’, ‘I can’t see that’ etc. etc.  It is indeed this moaning which has cost the club many good officers over the years and a sad inditement that the moaners were not told to put a sock in it!
Steering or towing is a competition, if you make courses so slack that you can get a 50 inch model around then of course it is going to be much easier to take a 18 inch model around, but the main point it is equal for all.  If one part is tight for your 50 incher then it is going to be tight for the next and the likely hood of a touch is equal!  Things can always be manipulated, I remember one chap who has since passed on had a 50 inch landing craft with a beam of about 5 inches.  When slalom sections were set out due to the width of his model he could sail strait through them!  An ingenious idea where many similar models then followed with cannel boats etc.
I have seen and been involved in cases over the years where certain individuals will insist on judging there closes rival and employ underhanded tactics such as just ‘mentioning’ something at the most inopportune moment to distract your attention!  Yes, I did not believe it at first but yes it is indeed true as it happened far too many times to be a coincidence.  This is the level that some people stoop to attempt to steal a victory, but in most cases fail, I am sure!
I hope that the cake is not being over egged.  The club as there retains enough knowledge in the of people who have been there since my days such as Ray, Les, Andy, Gerry.  These guys are the ones that you should be talking to as they know the winning recipe and could guide should these things be resurrected.
A competition is just that, I hope that the PC road of; ‘everyone is a winner’ is not being walked.  At the end of the day some people just cannot drive model boats, they are always welcome to join in, but should not expect a special course to be laid for them!  I know that I cannot juggle whilst doing the hula-hoop on a unicycle, hence if I ever entered such a competition for circus skills I would not expect to come anywhere!
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Tug Towing Courses & Rules and R/C Scale Steering
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2017, 04:50:51 PM »

The way forward?  %)

Colin

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destroyer42

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Re: Tug Towing Courses & Rules and R/C Scale Steering
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2017, 05:03:19 PM »

Hi All,
An interesting debate to seek the views of other clubs on this subject, it's something to explore at club level in order to resurrect this declining sector of model boating and hopefully seek to discuss this with our current committee, with a view to enhancing the scale section with emphasis on having fun, which hopefully will drive interest from members to get involved.
Destroyer42
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destroyer42

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Re: Tug Towing Courses & Rules and R/C Scale Steering
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2017, 05:04:48 PM »

Hi Colin,
That looks fun, where do you get the boats!
Destroyer42
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Re: Tug Towing Courses & Rules and R/C Scale Steering
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2017, 05:12:07 PM »

Is that Dartmouth Colin?
Teaching the new RN Commanding
Officers!


Ned
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Tug Towing Courses & Rules and R/C Scale Steering
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2017, 05:37:30 PM »

It's on the Gunwharf development at Portsmouth.

Just imagine converting them to brushless!

Colin
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