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Author Topic: HMS Agincourt build project  (Read 24125 times)

ballastanksian

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #225 on: August 03, 2017, 09:54:45 PM »

I did not know that Milliput shrank! I have been using it for years without noticing it shrink at all so maybe I have been super lucky. I will keep an eye out for that issue as I use it to detail lorry tilts and canvass areas on model kit masters.

Anyhow, just a quick check Bob. Have you slid your hull halves in and out to check the tubes are paralel? Call me a windy whatsit but I would hate for you to have got puttying in a big way and then need to hack and chop material out again.

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Bob K

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #226 on: August 03, 2017, 10:30:28 PM »

I did not know that Milliput shrank! I have been using it for years without noticing it shrink at all so maybe I have been super lucky. I will keep an eye out for that issue as I use it to detail lorry tilts and canvass areas on model kit masters.

Anyhow, just a quick check Bob. Have you slid your hull halves in and out to check the tubes are paralel? Call me a windy whatsit but I would hate for you to have got puttying in a big way and then need to hack and chop material out again.

I have not noticed shrinkage, but I did dampen the surfaces first.  Helps to mould into surface texture, especially bonding to wood.

Oh yes Ian, I kept making sure everything keeps sliding well at every step.  That was the key importance of cutting the tube holes as a single stack of plywood.  She slides apart like a drawer on ball bearing runners.  I was especially careful Aralditing the latch & bar, so nothing trickled down the long square hole.

I see I have to wait a week for the "free delivery" 5 pack Milliput, so will have to think of other build aspects to keep me amused till then.  I think I will make a start on the 5 mm deck panels.  I have allowed for the position of the barbettes in my bulkhead positions, but must also think of maximising access to the ships innards.

I enjoy the planning aspects of these projects, trying to think several stages ahead.

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ballastanksian

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #227 on: August 03, 2017, 11:24:15 PM »

PPPPPP as they say! I do lie making lists of what needs doing and then going through and working out the details such as allowing for saw blade widths in over all dimentions of timber needed etc.
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derekwarner_decoy

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #228 on: August 04, 2017, 12:02:15 AM »

 %)..& Bob K says ... "I enjoy the planning" ...yes ..I think it is a work related discipline [ prior to retirement] ..... a part of my to do list every day was to remind others that they should also plan their days events  O0

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Re: HMS Agincourt build - End Caps
« Reply #229 on: August 04, 2017, 03:13:04 PM »

End Caps

Whilst waiting for the 5 pack of Milliput to arrive I found some ideal end caps for the stainless tubes.  Hard PVC.  Slight grinding out to enlarge 25 mm bore to fit one inch, but otherwise excellent fit.  These are required not just to tidy the ends, but also to seal against water ingress and prevent the inner tubes sliding too far.  Z-Poxy to secure when Milliput and resin reinforcing done.  Interior will eventually be hand brushed with grey acrylic primer.  Outside sprayed of course.



Deck Marking out

Forward half hull upended on a sheet of 5 mm plywood to mark the outline.  Using large sheets of tracing paper I then traced the relevant details from the scaled plans.  Ie:  Superstructure outline, barbettes, inset casement decks, plus anchor hawse / chains and other key items.



Marking through the tracing paper to transfer the detail required, then outlining in fine tip felt pen.

This will also give opportunity to consider internal access for essentials.

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #230 on: August 04, 2017, 10:32:49 PM »

I am very excited for you Bob. The end caps are a sound idea saving you loads of time pugging filler into them or making plugs or even turing your own caps. Adjusting them yourself just means you know they will fit how you want them.

I am pleased to see you are already planning and marking your decks out. Crikey, by Christmas you will be completing the running gear!

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Bob K

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #231 on: August 08, 2017, 12:08:54 PM »

Thank you again Nick B and Geoff for your advice on deck panels and access in the Invincible thread.
I have the 5 mm deck panels marked out and was figuring how best to provide maximum internal access whilst minimising visibility of joins.  Giant ships means tools used before to cut decks are not large enough.  I don't really want to buy any more "use once and archive" power tools.

I am still waiting for the 5 pack of Milliput from Amazon.  However, whilst idly searching Google I found an absolutely ideal item for the fixed outer barbettes.  87 mm galvanised steel tube used for rain down pipes, only 0.5 mm wall thickness.  Exact diameter I needed.  So I have ordered 1 m, ample to do seven barbettes, and easier to form the rotating inner sleeves into.


PS:  Ian.  The running gear is planned for just after I get these decks cut out.
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ballastanksian

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #232 on: August 08, 2017, 08:12:11 PM »

Good show  :-))
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Bob K

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #233 on: August 09, 2017, 02:25:21 PM »

Milliput ?

Still waiting for 5 pack of Milliput standard.  Two weeks already!.

Deck Panels

With thanks for advice given, I have decided on how to arrange the access panels in the 5 mm ply decks.  Rough diagram below.



Forward hull:   Following the curve of the curved fo’c’s’l’e breakwater, two cuts parallel to the port and starboard edges of the forward superstructure, then a cut across the beam just behind the 3rd turret.  The lift off hatch will include the numbers 1 to 3 turrets and forward superstructure,

Rear hull:  Decks on two levels.  On the upper level deck follow the edges of aft superstructure and number 4 turret.  On the lower level deck, a rectangular hatch from just forward of the number 5 turret to just ahead of the rudder axis.

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #234 on: August 09, 2017, 05:03:21 PM »


Hi Bob, I think if you had bought a tin of P38 you would have been alright the tubes of P38 are notoriously loose because of separation especially in warm conditions,  it also happens with a tin but can easily be remixed to a stiff paste that stays where it is put, just a thought Bob.   ok2


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Bob K

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #235 on: August 09, 2017, 06:27:08 PM »

You may be right Joe, but I'm just annoyed the Milliput is taking nearly two weeks to arrive.
The 3 x P38 in tubes was as runny as resin.
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Re: HMS Agincourt buil- Progress
« Reply #236 on: August 12, 2017, 07:30:51 PM »

Progress

The five pack of Milliput finally arrived yesterday, so I was able to complete the 10 mm radius strengthening fillets on the remainder of the bulkheads.  Next I layed on the epoxy resin with microfibre cloth to bond it all together, and coating the ply with resin for waterproofing.  Sticky job !



There will be other supports later.  Bulkheads are square, just angle of photo.


What is a Jigsaw?

When I was likkle a jigsaw was like a fretsaw but with a circular section blade -  you really could cut out wooden jigsaw puzzle pieces with it using a keyhole notch workplate.  The chunky things now bearing that title with a 10 mm deep blade would be totally useless for such work.  So, why call them a “jigsaw”?   :police:

Decks & Hatches Planning

However, as these four foot long deck panels are far too big for my vibrosaw my wife has kindly bought me a present.  A Proxxon mini “jigsaw” to aid me cutting out these 5 mm ply deck sections.  Only 180 mm long, 12V, it has a small enough blade you should at least be able follow reasonable curves.  As usual with any new tool I will need to practice a lot on offcuts first.

Hatches

Diagram of hatches in deck


Not sure how people usually do these, but with required access taking up much of both decks, if I use separate pieces of wood I would need almost double the quantity of plywood - and waste most of it.  I decided to cut them out of the decks, using a thin “dremeled” slot to insert the blade.  At least it will be exactly the same shape, minus two blade’s width.  After lightly sanding the edges I can epoxy thin strips of styrene to them to restore a close fit.

Strips of 5 mm ply to be glued underneath with Neodymium magnets to secure.

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #237 on: August 12, 2017, 08:22:23 PM »

Well you've certainly got a move on! :-))
Can't wait to see her together in "one-piece" when you've finished her. I thought I had sorted my deck out last week but I discovered that the quarter deck was too wide so I've cut my deck down by 1.5inches!
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ballastanksian

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #238 on: August 12, 2017, 08:39:31 PM »

The blade thickness has caught me a few times in the past. I did wonder if thin lengths of wood would be better than styrene, but styrene may well be more beneficial if you need to laminate more to minimise the gap between the deck inserts and the deck edge.

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Bob K

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #239 on: August 12, 2017, 08:40:48 PM »

Can't wait to see how you are cutting your decks and hatches Nick  O0
I will pinch some hints and tips.

Right now I have just completed the main bulkheads.  I have my decks marked out.
Just waiting for the Proxxon tool to arrive from Germany.
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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #240 on: August 13, 2017, 01:30:48 AM »

Bob...these PROXXON STS12/E jigsaw with the replaceable concentric foot plate are very manoeuvrable and will accurately produce the curved requirement from the curved master template

The real issue is creating the curved template in the first place >>:-(

Do not dismiss it, do you remember those Stadeler ''flexible curves'' we used in Tech Drawing in the 60's ?...... one of those 12" [300mm] long curves with 20 x 1mm diameter holes for 1mm diameter push pins to hold a temporary the contour shape? ......whilst gently cutting with the machine?

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Bob K

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #241 on: August 13, 2017, 05:58:18 PM »

Thanks for your recommendation for the Proxxon mini "jigsaw" Derek.
I am looking forward to it being delivered.  Decks this size call for a cabinet maker rather than a model builder.

I used to have a Flexicurve in my draughting days, but no longer have those instruments.
Hopefully laying the hull upsidedown on the ply and drawing round it will suffice in this case. I had taken numerous check measurements as well.

Just ordered 40 Neodymium magnets, 7 mm dia and same thickness as the ply.
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ballastanksian

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #242 on: August 13, 2017, 11:00:19 PM »

I did that for the decks on my Monitor and destroyer and they both came out well. Just don't push too hard with the pencil distorting the hull between bulkheads and you should be alright.

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Bob K

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #243 on: August 16, 2017, 04:55:30 PM »

The Proxxon Micromat "Jigsaw" has arrived.  It looks extremely compact, and able to cut curves in 5 mm thick ply.  The blades looks very thin.  Ideal for cutting out hatch panels.  The power supply unit is not immediately obvious as being an "optional extra", so I had to order that too.



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ballastanksian

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #244 on: August 16, 2017, 10:16:43 PM »

That's a bit cheeky, but the machine looks like it will serve you well and long, so the extra cost will be worth it.

Cool looking tool Bob.
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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #245 on: August 16, 2017, 10:18:49 PM »


What voltage does it require Bob ?

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Bob K

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Re: HMS Agincourt build - Deck cutting
« Reply #246 on: August 21, 2017, 07:11:30 PM »

The Proxxon STE 12 jigsaw requires a special Proxxon transformer/regulator that you have to buy separately. Mains input, but 12V to 18V to the jigsaw.


Deck Cutting

Decks all marked out, started the cutting.  First rule of model building:  Never assume anything.  It appears that the stern half of the hull is not exactly symmetrical.  After cutting the outer profile, with a bit of extra clearance, it became apparent that the curves did not exactly match.  I had marked it out with the hull inverted on top.  Turning the deck over it now matches the lines I had drawn round it.  No damage done.  But all my markings are underneath.



Using some square rattan I epoxied some supports around the stern, exactly a deck thickness below the hull line.  This gives a guide when doing the actual ply fitting.  Surform first, then file, lastly emery glued to a board.  On the stern I cut out the upper level deck to be mounted separately. This is contiguous with the fore main deck. 

Not too bad a fit, although it took some time to get the edges done.

I have nearly done the fore half deck, a bit more fiddly due to the casement insets.  After this I will endeavour to cut out the hatches.

Somehow she looks even larger with the deck panels on.  I can hardly move in here with the Workmate in front of my bench !

I am now close to the expensive part of the build, before the decks are fixed in place.  The propulsion system.  Four rather large motors (I am looking at Bueller) four 290 mm Raboesch prop shafts and four 40 mm brass props.

I have ordered the stepper motors with their control boards, for the turret rotation system.
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ballastanksian

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #247 on: August 21, 2017, 09:42:03 PM »

I am very excited for you Bob. That looks excellent. Regards deck markings, I did this with the monitor a few months back so I know your annoyance, but it is eaier and less costly to re mark everything than throw good timber away every time, and you will recall some of the dimentions, so it should take less time.

I am looking forward to your next post  :-))
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Bob K

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #248 on: August 24, 2017, 08:35:11 AM »

Parts ordering

Deck & hatch cutting was temporarily held up waiting for more Proxxon blades, but these have now arrived.  Also arrived yesterday are eight sets of stepper motors with their control boards.



Casement Insets

These proved to be rather fiddly, especially as I don’t want to epoxy the decks in until I have largely finished the internals.  The deck insets are to allow two forward secondary armament guns to fire forwards.  Making reasonably good progress though.



I will need to build in a section of inner deck to mount the secondary armament.  Again this has to be installed before the decks are epoxied.  I will also have to cut out the gun shields from the hull before these decks get fitted.

Propulsion system

The next big expense was four Bühler 1.13.044.264 motors at 22 EU each, due to arrive 29 August.  Colin-d in Germany had recommended them.  51 dia x 89 long, weighing 740 gm.  3070 rpm, 1.9 A, high torque.  They should shove it along quite well I think.  I will get the shafts and props at Dean’s at their Open Days 8 to 10 Sept.


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Bob K

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #249 on: August 26, 2017, 11:13:27 AM »

OK, at this point I feel it necessary to log some frustrations and near failures.
I am capable of building accurate detailed ships, and am the first to admit that woodwork is not my best point of sailing.

However, I am having major problems with this Proxxon mini jig saw on 5mm ply.  It simply is nowhere near accurate enough for working on model decking.  I am moving it very slowly, not pushing or applying any pressure, allowing the blade to do the work.  I have chain-drilled slots for the start of each cut.

The blade action consistently pulls to the left, and you have to angle the key notch about 5 degrees to the right to keep it on track.  Even then the blade is cutting a somewhat wobbly line 2 to 5 mm to the left of the marked line being followed.  It is essential to work anti-clockwise to avoid scrapping the work, and even then a huge amount of manual rework is required afterwards.  I really can't be expected to fit new blades every foot or so, as the blades become slightly bent to the left quite quickly.  Again, absolutely no force being used.

I have now cut all the hatch panels out, working anti-clockwise to keep the cut inside the marked lines, but am not pleased with the really naff result.    <*<

I never had this problem with my vibrosaw, fretsaw or other hand tools. These four foot by one foot deck panels are far too big for conventional model making tools.

There are seven 87mm cutouts for the barbettes to do.  I feel I will have to chain drill and file those as I can't see this power tool doing such a "tight" curve.

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