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Author Topic: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017  (Read 2708 times)

canabus

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2017, 10:51:09 AM »

Hi All
Generally all the motors from Hobbyking I have purchase came with the spider mounting bracket and screws.
All the motors I have purchase had the specs for the motor with required ESC, battery, power and all the required sizing.
Also they have water cooled motor mounts.
The 540 motor mounts handle the 35mm brushless motor, but, the red uni joints do not handle the extra power of the motors.
Banggood have a good range of metal ones(part No.87379).
I have not installed water cooling in any brushless motored boats as they only get very hot with over prop-ing the boat.
Yes I have done it, but, not kill a motor or ESC!!!
One of the  problems is no specs on water prop size and loading for model boats!!!
Another is very limited specs on motors and required ESC's, also maximum voltage.

The SG is on my bucket list to build(I have the PLANS !!!), but, I have a few other projects to finish first.
Also one of the club member has two which he does not use, so, I am working on that angle at present.
Old buddy, old pal, old mate, fellow club member!!!
Including a water thrust tester which is one for my mad idea's and maybe a total failure!!!!
This also has a Watt meter, motor RPM, motor Temp, battery Voltage and thrust scales or weights.

Canabus
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Davo

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2017, 04:06:42 PM »

Anyone building a Sea Queen should look to improve some areas of construction. The cabin roofs should have several profile formers, not just the ends and centre one, as the roof panels can sag with time.  Maybe make a one piece front roof (as per my Sea Nymph models) as it does look better (in my opinion) This design removes a roof joint.
At the bow add thicker timbers to the stem for fixing the ply skins to; this gives added strength. During the 1991 refit of mine I added a Kevlar strip down the bow as the ply to stem joint was looking a little weak (probably a few concrete pond edge collisions!)
Fill any voids (bow area) with expanding foam. My SQ had foam forced up into the voids under the deck for emergency buoyancy. It could get quite busy at Wanstead and collisions were not infrequent. Add in the drive by CB radio enthusiasts (1970s) whose radio signal would scatter our models in all directions for a few minutes.
The advent of powerful brushless motors has allowed enthusiasts to build traditional wood/ply based boats and still get good performance; many years ago only the preserve of fibreglass or vac formed hulls. It is great to see so many traditional boats being built on Forum threads.
David
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ChrisF

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #27 on: October 16, 2017, 06:51:27 PM »

It's a pity that the 3mm motor mounts on the Cornwall Model Boats web-site don't have a drawing showing the hole centres and diameters to make it easy to choose the right one.

I've emailed them to ask which one will suit my motor.

From another forum site posting I found that a 600 motor mount has the correct 25mm spacing for my 42mm dia motor but don't know if there is sufficient clearance between the motor casing and base of the mounting.
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Peter Wallis

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #28 on: October 16, 2017, 08:11:50 PM »

I use the 4-Max.co.uk website for nearly all electrical needs especially those 'spiders' . . They have a full range for most outrunners .


Dare I say where possible I use the model aircraft supply base as items are far more competitively priced..........................


Peter W   
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ChrisF

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2017, 01:27:28 PM »

Peter - no problem with the spider as one came with the motor. But the outer holes are 50mm apart and I doubt that any right-angle mount is available to suit. I could always make one I suppose.

The inner holes are 25mm apart as per the 600 mount. I have found a supplier on Ebay that are the same/very similar to the Cornwall Model Boat ones and he does give dimensions. It is pretty tight for a 42mm dia. motor but should fit. I'll order one and check it out.

Chris
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canabus

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2017, 06:50:59 AM »

Hi All
As per Davo, with the brushless motors I have drop the lite ply and balsa.
Soft wood stringers and marine ply.
I did this with my Aerokits Sea Hornet and drop in a 750watt 28mm 1900kv motor on 3S Lipo with a 2 blade 32mm prop.
Pocket Rocket!!!!!
If GPS clocked at 45 KPH is not fast, what is!!!!
I set up the ESC with only 10% starting force and 25% reverse throttle for low speed.
At third throttle up on the plane and at scale speed.
I set up the transmitter throttle to another channel to limit the ESC to 50% and on changing the switch over to get 100% throttle.

Canabus
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chris1

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #31 on: October 21, 2017, 07:12:55 AM »

Hi all and sorry to butt in.  I have a Sea Queen waiting to be restored.  I also have a 1000W, 1000kv outrunner motor i bought for a different project (airboat).  Can this motor be used in the Queen?  Any recommendation re battery cell count and prop size with this motor? Or is the kv too high?
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canabus

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2017, 10:04:27 AM »

Hi Chris 1

More info on the motor please, brand, diameter, cell count range?
1000kv is not to high.
If you get a ESC which handles to full cell count of the motor and Amps.
Changing the battery will give you the rpm required and that depends on the prop you use.

Canabus
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Peter Wallis

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #33 on: October 21, 2017, 11:29:52 AM »

Firstly it amazes me how we have interests from Tasmania, Malta and Australia .
The original power for my S.Q was a Merco 61 - wonderful - followed by the MFA 800 electric . A good motor in its day but as we all know this motor was fine 20 years ago but electric power has moved ahead rapidly .
[size=78%]I now use a 600 brushless outrunner that first saw life in a friends model aircraft that I find ideal for my use as in 'fast electric' powered by a 3S LiPo 5,500A ..[/size]
This is now a very light boat and performs well - not only saving 400g with the switch to the outrunner the original battery was a 12V Gel cell and the switch to LiPo in terms of weight could be measured in lbs .


I use a watt meter to measure the efficiency of the prop exactly as we do in model aircraft . This has all been a steep learning curve for me but I am delighted with my 60A w/c Turnigy Marine ESC . The only change I envisage will be making is to fit a small fan powered by a separate LiPo directed at the only bearing ..
I know parts of this are a bit vague but these are guide lines from my experience as 'fast electric' is a new scene for me .


Peter W                                                                                       
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chris1

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #34 on: October 21, 2017, 01:36:05 PM »

So i had a slight error.  The motor is a Turnigy Aerodrive 3548-4 (35mm diameter, 48mm length, not sure what the -4 represents.  It is a tually 1100kv and 910w, designed for 3 to 5 cell lipo, 11.1 to 18.5v.  Max current 50A.  ESC is not a proble, as i will just buy one big enough.  Batteries also not a problem as i have quite a few left over from my planes, which i have stopped flying.  Any help appreciated.
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Davo

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #35 on: October 21, 2017, 04:19:32 PM »

Chris
Your motor is in the same ball park as the one it fitted above so should be ok. The /4 figure I believe refers to the number of stators (or poles as in a brushed motor). The ESC I bought above has a programmer where all such data is entered to get the best out of the motor. You can even change the timing.
It is advised the an ESC of +20% of the stall range of the motor be used. To get a 60AMP rating fuse I used a re-settable one as used for hi-fi systems in cars (owners must be deaf) and I have seen these in Halfords though mine was bought after a search on eBay. You can use a large in-line blade fuse but the re-settable one includes a break button which could be useful in emergencies; also strangely my ESC had no on/off switch. This is fitted in the positive line between battery and ESC using 14AWG silicone cable.

Hope to see a new Topic with your build and results.

It would be good to have a register of kit builds with just basic running gear info, equipment installation pictures (without going into full build detail) and the eventual sea trial results.

David
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chris1

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2017, 05:48:06 PM »

Thanks again David.  I still have to finish a static model (1/80 J Class Endeavour) before picking up the Queen, so not until early next year.  I will put up some pics along the way.  Lots of work to do on mine.  Given to me by an uncle who started to build it, almost complete, but never used it. 
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canabus

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #37 on: October 22, 2017, 06:55:59 AM »

Hi Chris 1
I have that motor in my Sea Commander on 3S lipo 5800mah with the Hobbyking car ESC 60 Amp and a 2 blade 40mm prop.
Good turn of speed with no water cooling on the motor.
I used the car ESC because of the electric fan on top and it does not get hot at low speed work.
General run the boat for about 1/2 a hour at a mix of speeds.
I have tested the boat on 4S and it is over what the boat can handle.
Canabus
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Davo

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2017, 12:15:25 PM »

Seeing all the nicely named boats on the Forum I decided the Sea Queen needed a name after some 50 years. So waterslide transfers from eBay were obtained, applied and sealed with spray can varnish.  Named after my mum who encouraged all our hobbies. How many kids build an Airfix kit with their dad these days?
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Peter Wallis

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2017, 03:58:52 PM »

Two weeks ago I enjoyed an outing with my Sea Queen on the  Tamar River in Cornwall  - the new 600 outrunner powered by a 3S 5500A  LiPo gave excellent performance in choppy conditions .


She  has the letters K.F on her stern - i was amazed when an onlooker came up to me and asked had I been a member of the 'King Fisher' model boat club and that must have been 45 years ago . Sadly this club no longer running .


Peter Wallis


North Hampshire
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shadysadie

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #40 on: November 15, 2017, 06:20:23 PM »

Hello folks. I'm not trying to high-jack this thread but have been following it with great interest because I've just started to build a Sea Queen and want to go brushless from the start. I have a Turnigy 3639 -1100 outrunner left from a previous project, together with a HK 60A brushless car ESC and wonder if this combination would be any good to power the boat? Otherwise, what would you recommend as an alternative to give a good turn of speed?
Canabus earlier mentioned that the std. red uni-joints are not up to handling high powered motors and here in the UK you can get a bonded rubber uni- drive made up to order from SHG models. I am using these items in my MTB and can confirm that they are excellent.
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Peter Wallis

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #41 on: November 15, 2017, 08:36:11 PM »

A little more info - my 600 brushless outrunner is not far off the power output of the original engine I used 50 odd years ago -a Merco 61  10cc glow motor.
I now use a Turnigy Marine ESC  60A w/c and 3S 5500A LiPo that allows me to draw up to 50A  and this combination I find is ample power for my 46" Sea Queen .


I believe I have the right balance . With your 1100 outrunner  you will need a 4S LiPo and bigger ESC which in my terms are not cost effective .


But it's only a hobby so your choice ENJOY .


Peter Wallis


North Hampshire


 
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Davo

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #42 on: November 15, 2017, 09:46:22 PM »

The above motors are in the same ball park as my conversion to brushless so I guess we are all enjoying the same level of performance. I am still with NiMH batteries at just 12v so 2No NiMH 7.2v batteries in parallel should go even better.

Sadly, since my test run I have not yet been back to the lake to test the new safety cut out. The lake is used for breeding ducks this time of year and so boating is a bit alien to them!

Nice to know so many Sea Queens are going back to sea. They really excel in choppy waters so looking forward to a windy day for the next outing.
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Davo

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #43 on: November 15, 2017, 10:42:27 PM »

This is the fuse I have installed for 60amp. It can be re-set or at a push of a button cut out the battery supply.
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Peter Wallis

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #44 on: November 16, 2017, 09:17:37 AM »


I think I could do with that from where did you buy !


Early this year I had a very old ESC 'melt' on me - no flames thankfully just smoke . I was very lucky to get away with it - my new ESC is mounted on a metal plate and is water cooled as well as having a built in cut-out .


Have to say this was all my fault ..........................


Peter Wallis


North Hampshire
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Davo

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #45 on: November 16, 2017, 10:09:06 AM »

I acquired this after a search on ebay for 60 amp fuses. At this level all fuse options get a bit large and I would be interested to know what products others have used at this level.  At 100mm long not an easy item to lose in a model boat but the space in the Sea Queen allows for it. Also, the ESC I have does not have an on/off switch so the push button break facility is a good way to isolate all electrics.

search:   60AMP Car Audio Circuit AGU Style Breaker Fuse 12-24vDC UK L121B

I have since seen them in the car Hi Fi section at Halfords. 
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jarvo

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #46 on: November 16, 2017, 10:16:49 AM »

Compared to the Aero guys, we are very much on a learning curve, most all of the motors i have seen are specced for aero props so any info we can share will do us all good


Mark
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canabus

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #47 on: November 16, 2017, 11:42:58 AM »

Hi Peter
I found out about the water cooled ESCs not having an on/off switch, so I was told by the guys at the club to use the Hobbyking car ESC.
These are available up to 100 Amps(different program card) and handle up to 4S.
Also have an electric fan on top, so cooling problems at low speed.
If you setup the start power to between 5 and 10% very good slow speed.
The reverse I set to 25% to go a good reverse speed.
I have 8 boats with these ESCs and have not had a problem with them.
Also I changed to the XT60 connectors because I think they are safer than the Deans ones .

Canabus
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shadysadie

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #48 on: November 16, 2017, 01:12:11 PM »

So I'm now thinking along the lines of a Turnigy L5055B - 600KV.. Will this be OK bearing in mind that I want a good turn of speed but am not wanting to break any records (or boats)?
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Tug Fanatic

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Re: Aerokits Sea Queen. Going brushless in 2017
« Reply #49 on: November 16, 2017, 02:51:09 PM »



...........................60AMP Car Audio Circuit AGU Style Breaker Fuse 12-24vDC UK L121B

I have since seen them in the car Hi Fi section at Halfords.


To need that I don't think that Hi Fi is an appropriate term!


This should be really nice when finished. I have always liked the Sea Queen - it somehow has gravitas.
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