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Author Topic: Swordsman 33 Build  (Read 1275 times)

ChrisF

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Swordsman 33 Build
« on: October 25, 2017, 09:29:08 PM »


Being conscious of the fact that I'm mainly hijacking other folks threads I thought I'd better start my own as I'm getting dangerously close to actually building my first boat!

Provision of the workspace is well on its way and should be finished this weekend, I still work 3 days a week so there has been a break since last weekend.


Parts are being collected (see photos) and once I've got some thicker plywood for the keel and bought a scroll saw I shall be making a start. For the prop shaft I've bought a Raboesch maintenance free with a ball race which is rated to 15k. revs. They do a slightly cheaper one rated to 10k. revs and whilst I don't intend to go ripping up the lake that is below what the motor will rev to so I've erred on the side of safety. There is quite a bulb where the ball race is and was concerned at the size of hole required to get it in place! But I should be able to feed it in OK from the inside even if I need to taper the hole through the keel to give some wiggle room. That's why I wanted to get those parts before building so that I can check fitment before the hull is skinned etc.


The rudder is also a Raboesch though I was expecting it to be in brass to match the prop rather than stainless steel - all part of the learning process.


I'm pleased to say that the 600 motor mount will take the 42mm motor though I'm not too impressed with the quality. From eye I can see that it is not bent 90 degrees, there are bad marks where it has been held in a vice for bending and there are rough edges etc. I know it wasn't expensive but I expected better. Some work can certainly improve it though. The fixing holes for the motor aren't countersunk for the screws either. I can either do them or source some flat head ones.


As said the boat is going to be a Swordsman 33 at 1: 12 to match another lovely little Fairey that I have (Inertia/DM knows what it is!) and is going to be the aft cabin version where the roof sits just below the top of the coaming. It is based on the Aerokits kit drawings but with a few modifications to aid building and to make the superstructure lift off as one rather than via hatches in the roof and cockpit. I still have to do some work on the drawings for the superstructure but have done enough to build the hull.


Chris

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ChrisF

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Re: Swordsman 33 Build
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2017, 10:12:15 AM »

Went to the International Model Boat Show yesterday and bought some more plywood and some other bits and bobs so I think I've got everything to make a start now.

Picked the scroll saw up on Thursday and am just going to open the box, always excited about a new tool!

Last weekend I started printing off the plans but found that they were coming out too small, only two-thirds of the size required! I'm guessing that this is because as well as using the Aerokits drawings I was referring to the original Fairey drawings which maybe hadn't been scanned at full size as I thought.

No matter though as it's just a case of altering the print percentage and redrawing some of the timber thicknesses e.g. the formers, otherwise they will come out too thick.

I won't bore you with a build blog on this as they have been done before by experienced builders but will post the odd photos as I go along, make beginner's mistakes and ask questions.

Chris
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Perkasaman2

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Re: Swordsman 33 Build
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2017, 04:51:54 PM »

It's a good idea to site your motor as low as possible to the keel. This ensures that your propshaft is as horizontal as possible for the thrust efficiency of the prop and it's alignment axis.
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ChrisF

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Re: Swordsman 33 Build
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2017, 05:31:09 PM »


Thanks, yes, that's the plan. There were two prop shafts on my drawing as I was working on the actual prop shaft and motor etc. (the one not in red) based on the actual dimensions to see how it would all fit in.

I've since added the engine mount and it's pretty close to the keel. I've got the connector and prop (40mm) as well now so I'll put it all together and see how it looks against the drawing.

The angle of the prop shaft is 13 deg. which from what I've read in other posts should be fine. I can't get the angle much shallower than that.


The prop shaft and motor etc. is the one thing that's been affected most by my adjustment for printing and is now quite a bit smaller, further back and lower in the boat. Hope it fits OK!
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Perkasaman2

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Re: Swordsman 33 Build
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2017, 05:57:25 PM »

You are on the right track. Good luck with the build. The fairey range of models are ever popular and there are lots on mayhem.  :-))
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ChrisF

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Re: Swordsman 33 Build
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2017, 06:40:23 PM »

Yes they certainly are and I think I've read virtually everything on Mayhem and some other forums to glean information on the boats and their builds.

I've got two already, a Huntsman and a Huntress (bought already built) but the plan is to build all the different models.

In fact I might start on a Huntsman 28 at the same time as the Swordsman though I've still got some work to do on the drawings.
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doonie

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Re: Swordsman 33 Build
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2017, 11:12:27 AM »

I thought the prop shaft angle was a bit steep too. I had a boat with that going on and it tried to bury the nose when the power was applied. I see you have a pretty big brushless motor so presume you are after a bit of speed. Maybe a bit of investigating re flexible drive shafts might be a thought.
Just my two bobs worth.
Doonie.
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inertia

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Re: Swordsman 33 Build
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2017, 12:49:51 PM »

Enough armchair theory about shaft angles on Fairey powerboats. What matters is what works.
The shafts on a full-size Swordsman are 15į from the keel line. This is done to accommodate two massive diesel engines and their gearboxes under the cockpit floor. The props are almost underneath the transom.
On both of my models of Huntress 23 and Huntsman 31 this angle is 12≠į. Neither of these exhibit any tendencies to porpoise or nosedive. There's a video on You Tube of the Huntress here (from 7.20) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzHGhfT45wo&feature=youtu.be
and one of the Huntsman here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw1C8SfZPS4&feature=youtu.be
Judge for yourselves.
DM
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ChrisF

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Re: Swordsman 33 Build
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2017, 01:33:24 PM »

I thought the prop shaft angle was a bit steep too. I had a boat with that going on and it tried to bury the nose when the power was applied. I see you have a pretty big brushless motor so presume you are after a bit of speed. Maybe a bit of investigating re flexible drive shafts might be a thought.
Just my two bobs worth.
Doonie.

Yes, I am using a big motor but not for all out speed though I doubt it will struggle! The reason for going oversize is so that it won't be working very hard and will run pretty cool. The ESC will be oversize as well and fan cooled and so will again run cool. I know it's not difficult but I don't want to bother with water cooling.

As DM says the prop shaft angle is well within acceptable limits. The only way I could reduce it any further would be by using a longer prop shaft. Flexible drive shaft on a Fairey, no way!
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doonie

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Re: Swordsman 33 Build
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2017, 10:09:07 PM »

Wow, I had a look at that second video and the thing looks real good on the water. I was only passing on my thoughts from a previous personal experience. I apologise if I caused a problem.

doonie
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inertia

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Re: Swordsman 33 Build
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2017, 11:08:25 PM »

Problem? Not at all, m'duck.
DM
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ChrisF

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Re: Swordsman 33 Build
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2017, 08:12:06 PM »


Well I was just about to start transferring the templates to the plywood when I got a right humdinger of a sore throat and cold which has been going on for a week now and Iím not over it yet.

So when I havenít been feeling too bad Iíve gone back to the Huntsman 28 drawings and have done enough on them, like the Swordsman, to begin building the hull. Plan was to build the Swordsman first and then the Huntsman but have now decided to build them both at the same time. Reasoning being that I can work on the other whilst waiting for glue etc. to go off.

Like the Swordsman Iíd picked up the kit drawings for the Huntsman (Veron in this case), again with poorly drawn templates so I decided rather than copy and downsize from 42Ē to 28Ē that I might as well draw them from scratch based on the original drawings.

Getting back to the Swordsman, I decided to order a longer prop shaft which arrived today. Earlier I mentioned that my drawing was smaller than expected (due to the drawings I was working off being scanned at less than full size and not realizing it) and having ordered the first prop shaft based on my drawing ended up with one smaller than ideal. Iím pretty sure it would have done the job but with the longer one it positions the motor better and gives more clearance between it and the keel for getting the mounts in. It also has the benefit of reducing the prop shaft angle a little more. I shall probably use the shorter prop shaft in the Huntsman 28.

When laying out the new prop shaft etc. I found that the prop Iíd bought from the show was only 35mm rather than the 40mm Iíd asked for. Thought it looked a bit small! I could exchange it but should be ideal for the Huntsman, so no problem.
 
I thought I use a couple of methods for transferring the templates; the carbon paper method for the keel etc. and the glue on method for the bulkheads etc. Mindful of the possible distortion with the latter Iíve tracked down what should be the ideal glue. Itís a spray glue called 3M ReMount which has the advantages that it doesnít stick too hard, can be taken off/repositioned and when removed finally, doesnít leave any or very little residue. Downside is that itís quite expensive and needs to be applied outside due to fumes and overspray. I shall print off some duplicate templates to check for distortion. Has anyone used it and what is their experience?

Today I did the keel and will try the glue tomorrow. As you know the carbon paper method is tried and tested and so no problem. Well, apart from peeling back the drawing after carefully tracing around the bow section and then realizing that Iíd forgotten to put a sheet of carbon paper there! What a plonker!

With regards to the drawings you can see Iíve added a couple of things to help with the build. Firstly Iíve added a temporary spine (thanks to earlier advice) and also some tabs to the keel for fixing to a length of timber which in turn will be fixed to a building board. Due to the curved deck the first part of the build needs to be the right way up and the keel will be kept straight and take out the slight bow in the ply sheet. Iíd considered getting a keel cradle for building but think this simpler method is better.

Iíve modified the Huntsman drawings in the same way and the construction of the hull will be very similar.

Chris
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ChrisF

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Re: Swordsman 33 Build
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2017, 03:09:43 PM »


Well I tried the glue method, certainly quick and easy and does what it says on the tin. The templates become like giant Post Its and can be repeatedly taken off and put down again.


But for cutting out with the scroll saw I think they need to be a bit more sticky and so I'd put some masking tape round the edge as well to hold the templates more securely.


I prefer a line on the ply to work to and so have decided to use the carbon paper method which provides nice accurate lines. Good thing about the sticky templates is though that they don't move around when tracing.


From now on though it's all standard construction and build which you all know about or is better illustrated elsewhere with this and similar boats being built many times before. So I won't bore you anymore with my ramblings but just post the odd photo when significant progress has been made.


Chris


 
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skierdive

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Re: Swordsman 33 Build
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2017, 07:40:52 PM »

Hi ChrisF,


Would it be possible for you to let me know what Technical Drawing / CAD program you are using please? And whether you would recommend it for a beginner. I'm using a Windows 10 PC and have a A3 printer, so I presume I would have to go to a printers to get full size copies of any drawings I produced.


Looking forward to seeing your finished model as it does look good, going by the drawings on your screen.


Ian.   
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ChrisF

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Re: Swordsman 33 Build
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2017, 09:03:11 PM »


Hi Ian


It's Microsoft Visio. Got into it because it was our corporate drawing package at work and they wouldn't let me have CAD even though I was doing some building drawings.


I've used it quite a lot at work and home (bought my own copy) and like it though it can be quite frustrating sometimes. I'm self-taught (though do have a draughting background) and it doesn't take too long to pick-up the basics.


I haven't used CAD for years and only had a dabble with TurboCAD which I didn't think was very good but I understand is now.


There are a number of CAD users on the forum so what I'd do is post a separate question which I'm sure will give you plenty of responses.


I've got a Windows 10 PC and an A3 printer also and it is fine for the size models I'm building - the Swordsman is 33" long and I've had to tape a number of sheets together for the keel and side view but that's no real problem. Good thing with doing your own drawings is that you can position the templates to suit your printer paper and print off just the parts you want and as many as you want. If working from a large PDF this is harder to do and as you say is better done at a printers.


Chris
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triumphjon

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Re: Swordsman 33 Build
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2017, 12:00:30 PM »

interesting to see your progress on this biuld , ive got a pair of areokits swordsman hulls , the latest is missing its superstructure , however im planning a one off cut down racing variant as ive got a 3300 kv brushless motor / esc from a model car that will be fitted , also planning a small fantome using one of the commercial grp hulls , which wil also be twin brushless as i think it will be the only way of getting scale type performance
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ChrisF

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Re: Swordsman 33 Build
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2017, 03:38:41 PM »


Hi triumphjon


I'm just cutting out the keel and bulkheads at the moment so it won't be long now before I start actual construction.


I did consider twin motors but for my first builds I thought I'd keep it a bit simpler for now.


Twin motors would be good for your Fantome but I reckon that with the performance of brushless you should be able to get scale performance easily.


Further down the line I shall be building a Spearfish using a GRP hull I picked up.


Chris
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skierdive

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Re: Swordsman 33 Build
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2017, 06:09:21 PM »

Hi Chris,


Thank you very much for answering my question.


Although, I must say i'm in danger of trying to run before I can walk.  :-)  I am yet to build my first model but, after visiting this years show at Leamington, I now have a total of three kits to build plus a few plans of models I'd like to have a go at making and an old Sea Rover that needs restoring!


This hobby can get seriously addictive!


I think I need to calm down and concentrate on actually putting one of the kits together :-)  but, I do really enjoy the reading up and research . Including reading all the posts on this forum.


Ian.

 
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triumphjon

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Re: Swordsman 33 Build
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2017, 06:41:41 PM »

yes Chris , i think brushless is the only way to get these hulls up to planing speeds , my spear is using twin 1000kv brushless motors , the huntsman 31 in my avatar is running on twin 600 brushed motors , which dont give enough to get it moving very well !  ive also built a sword prototype , but used a single kmb 28 jet drive and 2200 kv brushless , just to be a little different ! i also biuld in liteply wherever possible to keep the weight to a minimum
 
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ChrisF

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Re: Swordsman 33 Build
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2017, 10:24:16 PM »

Ian - Yes, seriously addictive! I got interested via a neighbour about 18 months ago and since then have bought 2 ready built Faireys and a kit and a sailing yacht!


And as said I've recently set up a work area and spent quite a bit on tools and materials etc. to build my first boat which I've been pretty excited about, particularly as I've never built any model before apart from the odd Airfix planes when I was young. So we are in the same boat really! Like you I have enjoyed researching and reading up in preparation for the build but it is even better now that I'm almost at the construction stage.


Triumphjon - you're certainly a Fairey fan! I'm not too bothered about the weight of my boat. It's really more about getting some experience of model boat building and in other things I tend to over engineer. But with the motor etc. I'm pretty sure it will go pretty well. If it doesn't then no problem it's all part of the learning process.


Chris
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