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Author Topic: gas burners  (Read 500 times)

steam4

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gas burners
« on: November 14, 2017, 10:07:34 PM »


Hi New to Steam Boiler firing with gas. How exactly does one refill the refillable gas tanks either with propane or butane
steam 4
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derekwarner_decoy

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Re: gas burners
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2017, 03:24:33 AM »

steam4....to save reinventing the wheel....try this WEB site 

http://miniaturesteammodels.com/index.htm

1. Select Boiler Fittings & Materials
2. Select Refillable Gas Tanks
3. eg., select 4260 Tank
4. Select Gas Tank Refillable Instructions

Not that I am biased...being an Australian WEB site, however it is pretty straight forward

If you visit some French WEB groups you may see other procedures using larger gas containers inverted & transferring gas [but in a liquid state <*< as opposed to boiled off Propane/Butane......

We in OZ, extract & liquefy our LNG....they transport it to Korea, it is decanted to 220gm disposable containers & exported back to OZ & sold for approx. $1.20 AUD each [in a pack for 4]......if you go to a camping store the have 250gm containers for $8.00 AUD  >>:-(

My refillable gas tank has a published capacity of 105gm...I have been able to achieve a 103gm transfer [by weight on digital scales] & so the disposable tank still has ~~ 1/2 it's weight in gas available for the next refillable recharge....[the second filling is more problematic  :-X in terms of optimum temperature of both the disposable and the refillable tanks]

So for my money...pretty good value

Derek
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steam4

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Re: gas burners
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2017, 03:29:15 AM »

thank from a fellow colonist in canada
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rhavrane

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Re: gas burners
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2017, 08:09:06 AM »

Bonjour,
Almost same procedure in France with generally to types of filling tips (and also modified car tire valve) for 70% B / 30 % P (or sometimes 65 % / 35 % P) bottles of gas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxBGnpX77tA

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Geoff

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Re: gas burners
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2017, 02:08:58 PM »

The refilling gas tank with the nozzle pushed down on a Schroeder valve and the liquid/gas pours into the tank until it basically overflows (spits back at you). It won't be fill to the top so there is sufficient room for the gas to form. In my experience quite a lot of gas can be lost this way. In all cases the tank needs to be removed from the model to fill but at this point this splits into two:


1) Where the burner (typically poker type) comes out with the tank in which case you can only fill via the Schroeder valve


2) Where the burner is left inside the model - (typically if ceramic). You can then construct an adaptor to screw onto the burner outlet, invert the refilling tank and open the flow valve on both and the liquid trickles in. Shut both valves and the only gas lost is that inside the pipe. This is a much more efficient way to fill the tank.


Hope this may assist


Regards


Geoff





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SteamboatPhil

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Re: gas burners
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2017, 07:54:55 PM »

Please note also you cannot fill pure propane to your tanks  :-))
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steam4

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Re: gas burners
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2017, 09:05:43 PM »

you said you cannot refill with pure propane. the propane I was thinking of was from a bbq 20 lb tank.
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steamboatmodel

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Re: gas burners
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2017, 04:06:20 PM »


you said you cannot refill with pure propane. the propane I was thinking of was from a bbq 20 lb tank.
Hi Steam4,
Unfortunately non of the small tanks we use are ratted for use with straight propane. If you have the room you could use the 1Ib. disposable tanks. There is a adapter sold on ebay for refilling them, but remember once refilled it is illegal to transport them. So if you could transport the  bbq 20 lb tank to your sailing site refill the 1Ib tank there and run it until it is empty you should be ok, but check the regs. to make sure. The only tanks I would refill would be a commercial one that is rated to use the camping fuel mixe of straight butane. It is possible to build your own tank for straight butane, but you have to test it like a boiler to 350psig.
Regards,
Gerald.
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steamboatmodel

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Re: gas burners
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2017, 03:25:40 PM »


I have found a couple of spots that do sell refillable tanks, Manchester tanks and Fire King. I have not used ether one.
Gerald.
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Geoff

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Re: gas burners
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2017, 03:46:02 PM »

Pure propane has a much higher pressure requirement whereas most tanks are designed for a mixture of butane/propane which work at much lower pressures. Pure butane doesn't have good characteristics for burning as on evaporation the temperature drops significantly shrinking the flame. Propane has high temperature but very very high pressure requirements so a mixture of both is usually used.

This is why you can readily purchase butane/propane mixtures in light steel cans.

Cheers

Geoff
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southsteyne2

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Re: gas burners
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2017, 12:45:58 AM »

Hi all found a little gem of a burner on the bay ,my vertical boiler is 4 in dia x 6 in tall and holds approx 700m ,I was using straight propane but getting too pricey so thought I would try butane much much cheaper but could not find a suitable burner till now cost was under 30 dollars AU and will achieve 40 psi in around 4 min so very happy with that.
Cheers
John
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Jerry C

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Re: gas burners
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2017, 01:48:54 AM »

Where did you get it from? My English fittings don’t look the same as over here in Oz. I haven’t even seen the low squat tanks as in uk so maybe have to modify my burner.
Jerry

southsteyne2

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Re: gas burners
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2017, 03:09:07 AM »

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southsteyne2

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Re: gas burners
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2017, 03:15:57 AM »

Sorry Jerry not brass aluminium alloy but still better than plastic
Cheers
John
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steam4

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Re: gas burners
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2017, 05:51:27 PM »

Hi I looked at Amazon under propane refill adapters and there 8 pages of all kinds of adapters
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steamboatmodel

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Re: gas burners
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2017, 11:41:43 PM »


The tank shown looks like  the ones used in the table top burner popular in the Asian population here. I picked a package of four tins on sale fro Can $3.99 + tax, and have seen them regularly for under $6.00. These are the same ones that Walmart sells for $11.99, they hold around 8oz of Butane. The single burner is quite numerous on ebay going for as low as $5.00, I have used a number of them for boiler burners.
Regards,
Gerald.
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southsteyne2

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Re: gas burners
« Reply #16 on: Yesterday at 08:30:58 AM »

I have used one of the other cheap burners with poor results so make sure you purchase the one that I have decriibed as it has more holes also  ss gauze and no I do not sell these

Cheers
John
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