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Author Topic: NEW BUILDING TECHNIQUE  (Read 7244 times)

Neil

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NEW BUILDING TECHNIQUE
« on: December 18, 2017, 10:42:58 pm »


In the new year I intend starting a new build of the only class of lifeboat that I have wanted to build, but haven't done so yet.


it will be a big one at 60" long and to keep the weight of the plug down, because it will be again plug, moulds and grp moulded hull, my usual standard build, I am contemplating using foam in between frames and skimming with polyester resin.


so before I start, I would like to ask, what foam should I use , where do I buy it from, and what barrier do I use to protect the foam from the polyester filler when skimming it all.


please, I don't want to deviate from polyester resin, because it is easy to sand, and don't want to go down the route of epoxy resins..........I want to keep it as simple and as quick as can be and products that I am used to, as the finishing surface....... a simple question, so please keep the answer simple.........foam and barrier will do just fine, for a quick plug build, with no complications.


cheers, neil.
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T33cno

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Re: NEW BUILDING TECHNIQUE
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2017, 11:02:14 pm »

Perhaps consider expanding foam? easy to trim and cut when set.
I'm sure you will trial anything before committing.
A trade can goes a very long way if used with an application gun which gives excellent control and you leave it on the can until its empty therefore not needing replacement nozzles or cleaning.

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Neil

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Re: NEW BUILDING TECHNIQUE
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2017, 11:14:38 pm »

it's susceptible to the resins of polyester, Andy and melts once in contact with the filler leaving huge hollows behind the skims............I could use it but need a barrier between the two.....there is a dense foam around that saws well, but haven't a clue what its name is or who supplies it.
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Klunk

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Re: NEW BUILDING TECHNIQUE
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2017, 12:51:34 am »

If its the stuff im thinking of its called chem wood. It cuts with a saw, knife etc, can be drilled and carved easily. I use it at work all the time.
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T33cno

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Re: NEW BUILDING TECHNIQUE
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2017, 06:41:05 am »

Dense foam sounds more like linkspan board
Used for insulation and in a variety of thicknesses
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Brian60

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Re: NEW BUILDING TECHNIQUE
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2017, 07:10:34 am »

My current build was done like this. Check the early photo's on stril barents. I built a part frame from plywood and then filled the voids with squirty builders foam. Once it sets up, you can carve it to the shape of the plywood frames with a handsaw and then a coat of plaster of paris over the top of that. The plaster of paris seals the foam from the resin. You sand back the PoP to fair in the shape and then give it a good coat of paint, this is then waxed with whatever you use as a release agent.

LJ Crew

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Re: NEW BUILDING TECHNIQUE
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2017, 09:08:38 am »

 "If its the stuff im thinking of its called chem wood. It cuts with a saw, knife etc, can be drilled and carved easily. I use it at work all the time."
Thank you Klunk, now we know why Luton made cars don't rust!
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Klunk

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Re: NEW BUILDING TECHNIQUE
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2017, 09:47:45 am »

The reason no cars made in luton dont rust is no cars are made in luton. Only vans!
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dreadnought72

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Re: NEW BUILDING TECHNIQUE
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2017, 11:28:05 am »

If you're after quick and simple - and if you don't mind sanding the polyester outer for a smooth finish - then I'd possibly not bother with the plaster over the foam core technique. Just cover the (well-finished) core with tinfoil or clingfilm. Check the film to ensure it doesn't react with polyester resin!


Andy
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Neil

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Re: NEW BUILDING TECHNIQUE
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2017, 12:18:16 pm »


cheers guys...........I shall google a source. :-))

thanks.
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Neil

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Re: NEW BUILDING TECHNIQUE
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2017, 12:20:45 pm »


If you're after quick and simple - and if you don't mind sanding the polyester outer for a smooth finish - then I'd possibly not bother with the plaster over the foam core technique. Just cover the (well-finished) core with tinfoil or clingfilm. Check the film to ensure it doesn't react with polyester resin!


Andy


Tried that method once Andy.....and it turned out disastrous for me..........if the resin had been red It would have looked like the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, lol.........thanks but never again lol.
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Re: NEW BUILDING TECHNIQUE
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2017, 04:54:43 pm »

I've seen foam cores made 'resin-proof' with 2" Aluminium sticky tape carefully applied to leave no gaps. It can be rubbed smooth & buffed up to a good clean shiny finish.
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JayDee

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Re: NEW BUILDING TECHNIQUE
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2017, 08:31:04 pm »


Hello,


I built the hull for my Bluenose Schooner filled with Foam.
The foam was being used to make Office rooms within a large warehouse.
The foam was about 6 inches thick, with a paper covering on both sides.
Took some offcuts home and cut them into small cubes, then placed them in a jar of Resin.
Left them in the jar for about a week, to test if the resin would melt them - - it didn't !!.
I was given loads of scrap pieces of foam to take home.
Full details of the Schooner build are on my website.
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Neil

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Re: NEW BUILDING TECHNIQUE
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2017, 09:24:52 pm »


thanks guys for all the replies, but instead of allaying my fears I am becoming more confused by the hour..............think I'll go back to good old plank on frame, but again cheers for all your replies............just thought it would be easier.............but become a nightmare............POF and plenty of filler now the route.


cheers.
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nemesis

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Re: NEW BUILDING TECHNIQUE
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2017, 09:33:44 pm »

 Neil, I thought you had had enough of Big boats after doing the Clyde for the Loch Lomond run. Double glazing firms use a blue foam for glass packing also Florists use green foam similar to Oasis. best wishes, nemesis
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Neil

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Re: NEW BUILDING TECHNIQUE
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2017, 06:14:51 pm »

I just can't resist the pain and suffering plus the self harm I do to myself, building a big boat................and when I look at it, nemesis............it's only an inch longer than the Jupiter ferry................plus its a lifeboat {-) {-) {-)
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DavieTait

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Re: NEW BUILDING TECHNIQUE
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2017, 06:16:09 pm »

http://trawlerphotos.co.uk/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=96170&title=framing-1&cat=1101

Start there and click right , thats Bill Wood from Aberdeen and he uses this method for all his plugs Neil
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dreadnought72

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Re: NEW BUILDING TECHNIQUE
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2017, 07:16:08 pm »

THAT is an excellent how-to!


 :-))  Andy
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DavieTait

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Re: NEW BUILDING TECHNIQUE
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2017, 08:02:16 pm »

Bills been making models this way for years , its the blue extruded insulation board you need

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EXTRUDED-STYROFOAM-FOAM-FOR-MODEL-MAKING-SCULPTING-FREE-POSTAGE-/282593175331

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Neil

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Re: NEW BUILDING TECHNIQUE
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2017, 09:08:13 pm »


Bills been making models this way for years , its the blue extruded insulation board you need

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EXTRUDED-STYROFOAM-FOAM-FOR-MODEL-MAKING-SCULPTING-FREE-POSTAGE-/282593175331


cheers Davie........I'll track some down.


neil.

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mrzippy

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Re: NEW BUILDING TECHNIQUE
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2017, 09:14:32 pm »

Hi Neil,

Hope this may be of interest, I have recently watched my cousin (a retired expert pattern/model maker
specialising in car prototypes for the likes of - Jaguar, Bentley, BMW, Volvo etc working all around the world)
produce his first model boat - a 28 inch scale round bilge model of his own full size 28 foot yacht,
by his preferred method of polyester glass over foam and I found it a revelation !

The ease of construction and speed the hull went together was amazing, bread & buttered from 2'' thick layers,
and I (traditional ply bulkheads & skins man) will be using his method wherever possible in the future,
I'm the one thinking about a huge 1/6 Atlantic 75/85 on FaceAcheBook,
and will be going down this route if I build the model.

I don't know the brand name but it's bright pink or bright blue builder's insulation foam, very dense 'closed cell'
foam that carves beautifully with a brand new Stanley Snap-Off knife blade protruding 4 inches out of its handle,
or easily sawn with a decent household bread knife ! (2 inch thick 8x4 sheets).

For the barrier layer he uses, what is industry standard in his profession - 2 layers of glossy 2'' brown parcel tape,
covering the entire up-turned hull and leaving an inch of excess tape overhanging to prevent any resin creeping up
attacking the foam.

Then he layers up in Polyester and matting, much sanding and P38, and on to paint - no need for moulds etc,
fastest boat building I've seen to date, saves all the hours of wood working/mould production for one off's.

When discussing how to build a large model tug hull, he suggested cutting bulkheads out of thin ply or
possibly 1/4'' Depron foam (as used by Aeromodellers for small profile R/C model wings etc),
and infilling between with pink/blue foam blocks.

When asked how to make the foam blocks the correct size to fit between the bulkheads,
he showed me his bench pillar drill with a lashed up with a horizontal sanding disc mounted in the chuck
used to machine the foam sheet to thickness, then laminated to form blocks etc,
or length ways bread and buttering with 2'' sheet laminated onto a full depth solid ply keel.

A different way of thinking ! and I think someones just posted a similar reply while I been typing this.

cheers Paul
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Neil

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Re: NEW BUILDING TECHNIQUE
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2017, 10:06:14 pm »


Hi Neil,

Hope this may be of interest, I have recently watched my cousin (a retired expert pattern/model maker
specialising in car prototypes for the likes of - Jaguar, Bentley, BMW, Volvo etc working all around the world)
produce his first model boat - a 28 inch scale round bilge model of his own full size 28 foot yacht,
by his preferred method of polyester glass over foam and I found it a revelation !

A different way of thinking ! and I think someones just posted a similar reply while I been typing this.

cheers Paul


Thanks for that Paul, and I found it very interesting indeed.........have sourced local some high density board, and shall be making a start in the new year..........


again, thanks to you all for replying.........and yes farewell POF .......a new excursion for me, I think.


cheers. neil
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Howard

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Re: NEW BUILDING TECHNIQUE
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2017, 10:09:02 pm »


Hello Neil.
I think I have seen the pink foam in wicks.
                  Regards Howard.

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Neil

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Re: NEW BUILDING TECHNIQUE
« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2017, 10:14:06 pm »


cheers Howard..........there's one close to me in Blackpool..............off to Preston tomorrow so will call in on the way back.


thanks
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Arrow5

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Re: NEW BUILDING TECHNIQUE
« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2017, 10:20:14 pm »

Try your local branch of Sheffield Insulations for foam sheets. If using the blue foam you must put a barrier between the foam and polyester resin.   Brown wrapping paper soaked in diluted waterproof  wood glue (15% water) three coats ,allow to dry between coats. this will give an eggshell type skin that you can apply the resin/body-filler to.
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