Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length.
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: LED wires  (Read 1769 times)

tizdaz

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 392
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Chester
LED wires
« on: December 30, 2017, 12:22:11 AM »

Hi guys,


I have some LED's that all pre-wired with resistors etc, but the wire is VERY thin & i need to connect them to an Action Electronics switch board, whats best method of doing this, like i say the LED wire is very thin so screwing this into the Switch Board terminal I don't think is wise, as it will either snap or be loose  should i just solder it onto a thicker piece of wire (such as awg 16!) ?


cheers

bfgstew

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 494
  • Comfortably Numb
  • Location: Retford (Robin Hood Country)
Re: LED wires
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2017, 01:54:35 AM »

You should never screw down onto plain bare wire, it will break, especially thin stuff. Soldering it helps but I would use bootlace ferrules, they come in all cable sizes and colours so you can colour code your wiring layout, plus it adds a professional finish to the job.


Stewart
Logged
"Give me a ping Vasili. One ping only, please"

tizdaz

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 392
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Chester
Re: LED wires
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2017, 04:35:00 AM »

hi,


but i will still need to do something as the wire on the LED's looks like its even less than 1mm in diameter so i will need to join a thicker diameter wire onto it ?

tizdaz

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 392
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Chester
Re: LED wires
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2017, 04:36:07 AM »

why is text so small :s


It's in keeping with the thread ..........

If you notice small text then the font size can be increased using the Modify button.  You only have a short time to do this however.

ken

inertia

  • Guest
Re: LED wires
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2017, 08:51:26 AM »

I would use a small length of stripboard and solder both the thick and thin wires to it, like this:
Logged

Stan

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,921
  • Location: Leeds
Re: LED wires
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2017, 09:34:11 AM »

Hi tizdaz look in working vessels new fishing boat lots of pictures on this topic. Most of my systems are wired using very thin lacquered copper wire. You could use the very thin cable from Component shop to extended the l e d  cables then solder to strip board. From the strip board you can fit larger lcables to the action switch. You mentioned 16 swg cables  these will be very large for lighting again check the C/shop web site for smaller cable sizes.




Sta
Logged

bfgstew

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 494
  • Comfortably Numb
  • Location: Retford (Robin Hood Country)
Re: LED wires
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2017, 09:35:14 AM »

Why not replace the whole of the wire? Any joint is a possible failure point.


If you can't replace the wire, then splice the two together, solder the joint then cover with heatshrink.
Logged
"Give me a ping Vasili. One ping only, please"

inertia

  • Guest
Re: LED wires
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2017, 09:56:56 AM »

You mentioned 16 swg cables  these will be very large for lighting again check the C/shop web site for smaller cable sizes.
Stan
I'd say that 7/0.2 is the largest cable size you might need for lighting. That's 7 strands, each of 0.2mm diameter, inside the insulation. 10/0.1 is probably better while those tiny LEDs that Stan uses really do need ultra-fine copper wire.
DM
Logged

malcolmfrary

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,200
  • Location: Blackpool, Lancs, UK
Re: LED wires
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2017, 10:28:58 AM »

Thin wires work perfectly well with screw terminals, you just need to follow the right guidelines. 
Just one turn under the screw, so that the wire does not cross itself. If it crosses, when tightened, it will scissor itself and leave a weak point.
The wire must be supported before it goes away from whatever the terminal is fixed to.
If the wire is unsupported, it will flex, flexing solid wire will break.  This applies equally to wires soldered to a board.  Any adhesive that dries with a bit of give works well.  Any line joint (wire to wire, wire to tag) will need support - heat shrink does a good job of not only insulating the join but making a strain relief each side.
Logged
"Trying is the first step towards failure" - Homer (Simpson)

bfgstew

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 494
  • Comfortably Numb
  • Location: Retford (Robin Hood Country)
Re: LED wires
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2017, 11:59:12 AM »

Thin wires work perfectly well with screw terminals, you just need to follow the right guidelines. 
Just one turn under the screw, so that the wire does not cross itself. If it crosses, when tightened, it will scissor itself and leave a weak point.


I must beg to differ. If no ferrule is used, solder the end of the wire, this gives the wire some protection from being compressed under the screw. All panel wiring I have done or seen has ALL cable ends ferruled unless it has been done incorrectly.
Biggest outage I experienced was in a power station, an incorrectly terminated control cable, just shoved in a screw terminal, it has shreared all but one of the dozen strands in the cable. Outcome, all wires where taken out and fitted with ferrules.
Ferrules are made for this purpose, it saves any problems and the biggest thing of all, it makes life so much easier inserting the wire into the terminal.


Stewart
Logged
"Give me a ping Vasili. One ping only, please"

Stan

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,921
  • Location: Leeds
Re: LED wires
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2017, 12:48:21 PM »

Well guys sounds like tizdaz has opened a can of worms.




Stan
Logged

bfgstew

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 494
  • Comfortably Numb
  • Location: Retford (Robin Hood Country)
Re: LED wires
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2017, 12:58:50 PM »

Far from it Stan, always good to hear other peoples ideas and thoughts.
Just pointing out my experiences and in no way undermining anyone elses.
Logged
"Give me a ping Vasili. One ping only, please"

malcolmfrary

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,200
  • Location: Blackpool, Lancs, UK
Re: LED wires
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2017, 01:59:57 PM »


I must beg to differ. If no ferrule is used, solder the end of the wire, this gives the wire some protection from being compressed under the screw. All panel wiring I have done or seen has ALL cable ends ferruled unless it has been done incorrectly.
Biggest outage I experienced was in a power station, an incorrectly terminated control cable, just shoved in a screw terminal, it has shreared all but one of the dozen strands in the cable. Outcome, all wires where taken out and fitted with ferrules.
Ferrules are made for this purpose, it saves any problems and the biggest thing of all, it makes life so much easier inserting the wire into the terminal.


Stewart
There is a difference between poking a wire into a terminal block and wrapping it round a screw (different types of terminal). 
Yes a terminal block where the wire is poked down a hole and the screw either traps the wire between the hole side and a lever or directly under the turning screw will need something be it soldered or crimped.  A fairly thin single wire going into a terminal will need all the help it can get just to be inserted against the spring lever which is what the ferrule is for.  Even better if some support is provided to prevent flexing near the body of the block.  Stranded wire does need the solder treatment to form a tag for the screw to grip.  Thin single wires need all the support they can get both because they are easier to damage and more prone to vibration. 
The comment about wire not being wrapped more than once (and in the direction of the tightening turn) was about earlier terminal blocks where the wire went under the screw head (or usually under the washer).  With that type, a split spade tag was the preferred option for a flexible wire.
It doesn't matter what the power level of the circuit is, the wire still needs a secure fixing in a way that ensures that it will last a long time in whatever use it is going to get.
Logged
"Trying is the first step towards failure" - Homer (Simpson)

bfgstew

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 494
  • Comfortably Numb
  • Location: Retford (Robin Hood Country)
Re: LED wires
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2017, 02:25:47 PM »

I made the mistake of assuming you were refering to the 'chox block' type connector, my mistake....... :embarrassed:
Logged
"Give me a ping Vasili. One ping only, please"

inertia

  • Guest
Re: LED wires
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2017, 06:58:34 PM »

To go back to the original post, all current ACTion units now use the 'rising clamp' type of terminal block. These do what they say on the tin i.e. the cable is compressed between a fixed flat plate and one which clamps up against it as the screw is tightened. This is much more secure for stranded cable such as the type we mainly use. The old-fashioned choc-block, with a screw which is turned down into a cylindrical hole at 90° to it, was really only designed to be used with single solid-core wire for domestic mains electrical wiring. It's pretty easy to tell the difference by just looking into the hole, but certainly all of the rising clamp blocks used for ACTion stuff are moulded in a green plastic whereas the older type was black.
So now you know.
DM
Logged

tizdaz

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 392
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Chester
Re: LED wires
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2017, 04:08:44 AM »

hi guys, thanks for info!


Think im going to splice the cables together using solder then heat shrink tubing, re-wiring is a no go as i still want the thin wire from the bulb (which is about 15cm) as its more hidden then the thicker stuff, yup the clamps i on the board are the newer type, ive sent Action an email regarding the correct diameter wire i need for the clamp as the stuff I have atm is too thick.

Tinny

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 66
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Australia
Re: LED wires
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2018, 07:36:20 AM »

...I have some LED's that all pre-wired with resistors etc, but the wire is VERY thin & i need to connect them to an Action Electronics switch board, whats best method of doing this, like i say the LED wire is very thin so screwing this into the Switch Board terminal I don't think is wise, as it will either snap or be loose  should i just solder it onto a thicker piece of wire (such as awg 16!) ?...


Wrap the thin wire around a thick copper gauge wire and solder it. Then use the thick copper wire to place in the screw terminal.
Logged
Peter.

tizdaz

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 392
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Chester
Re: LED wires
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2018, 02:35:21 PM »


Wrap the thin wire around a thick copper gauge wire and solder it. Then use the thick copper wire to place in the screw terminal.

Thanks tinny sounds simple enough :)

Tinny

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 66
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Australia
Re: LED wires
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2018, 07:42:50 PM »

Thanks tinny sounds simple enough :)
I know you already know.
I am just showing how I done it with my current diorama project. Below photo is under the display table view. Thin wires are from two sets of home-made LED traffic lights on lift-span bridge. I first added thick wires to terminals, then soldered the thin to the thick.


The gap you see between the two black terminals, with thick wire bits, is for me to solder (later) a small resister between them. The LEDs I used have different light intensities, and they are also viewed by the observer at an angle. By selecting the correct resistance for each colour (red, orange, green) the light intensity will appear equal.


Logged
Peter.

Howard

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 686
  • Location: Scotter Lincolnshire
Re: LED wires
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2018, 11:08:05 PM »


Very neat and I like that Idea.
        Regards Howard
Logged

raflaunches

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,295
  • The Penguins are coming!!!
  • Location: Back in the UK, Kettering, Northants
Re: LED wires
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2018, 11:49:01 PM »

I concour! Are you an aircraft electrician by trade? That’s almost aircraft quality engineering. :-))
Logged
Nick B

Help! The penguins have stolen my sanity, and my hot water bottle!

Illegitimi non carborundum!

RAAArtyGunner

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,855
  • Location: Brisbane, Australia
Re: LED wires
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2018, 05:31:56 AM »

Nick,

 In his newbie post elswhere, let slip is from Ballina, a few hours south of the border and ex RAAF, however can't hold that against him  %)

As you say neat layout  O0 O0 :-)) :-))
Logged
Gunna build those other boats one day.

tizdaz

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 392
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Chester
Re: LED wires
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2018, 10:09:47 PM »

Hiya Tinny :)


Yup im going to solder some thicker wire to the LED wire, the LED wires have resisters already attached, so its just a simple job of soldering them together, what I would like to ask tho.. here's my diagram below for the LED lights (bottom part of diagram), as you can see, the positive & negative wires branch off to each of the LED's whats the best way to "branch" these off, just solder?


Pages: [1]   Go Up