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Author Topic: Speedline Shannon Lifeboat - obtaining maximum potential from the Jet drives.  (Read 22318 times)

kinmel

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To modelers, the outstanding feature of a Shannon is it's extreme maneuverability and performance.  It is going to be a big attraction at Regattas etc., especially "dancing" in pairs.

So this topic is strictly about devising ways to remotely control the model, so as to replicate the actual boat's performance.  We want to keep this project separate from the "Build" Topic.

Berthon made a video of a real Shannon that shows what we aim to achieve. We have posted a link to it before, but concentrate on the jet drives as it all happens....  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQX7UMR4zLo.

The original Jet Drives are made by Hamilton and they have published a technical pamphlet about the HJ 364 drives, Section 2 concentrates on how the maneuvers are achieved..... 
 http://www.hamiltonmarine.co.nz/includes/files_cms/file/Product%20Manuals/Obsolete%20Manuals/HJ362%20R1%20A37.pdf

This Topic's challenge is to control each and every one of those operations from the lakeside. 

Join us and help to achieve it.



Other technical data is available here.....

http://www.hamiltonmarine.co.nz/includes/files_cms/file/HJ%20Series%20Brochure%20Eng%202012.pdf

http://www.maritimejournal.com/__data/assets/pdf_file/0030/856821/HJ-Designers-Manual-Eng-2014.pdf

http://www.seattle.gov/Documents/Departments/PSCSC/ExamsAndRegisters/HJ364MECControlsManualR1A5.pdf
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Neil

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may I ask the first question please...........


what is the minimum number of channels on a TX  that you envisage to achieve your aims, without going into switchers/mixers etc.


and apart from the 4 main channels on the two sticks normally seen on multi channelled sets, how do you envisage the other two [probable number] channels be arranged......................plus any ideas to the best sets without breaking the bank.


thank you.  :-))
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kinmel

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The first question is always the hardest to answer and there is probably more than one answer.

I doubt that even all singing, all dancing transmitters will be able to provide all the necessary control, we will have to see. 

Remember just 2 joysticks are capable of combining to provide 25 unique outputs, nothing is analogue anymore.

The biggest problem is doing five or six things at once just to get one particular response and adjusting the outcome in real time.

Even top end transmitters are fairly crude in computing terms, but low cost electronics and single purpose devices should be able to provide the capability boost we will definitely need.

It is too easy to build the Shannon kit and then just sail it serenely around the lake, but is that all you want from a model that will have cost about £1,200 ?

To me and others, it is worth the extra effort and minimal cost to show it performing in all it's glory.

The intention is to design systems that are cheap enough and simple enough for every Speedline Shannon owner to have them.  This is not a business venture, it is hobbyists working towards a common goal.


If it was simple, we would not be running this Topic.

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T33cno

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First pre requisite is have jet drives (now in kit form) complete with no missing parts. For now I'll laugh it off  {-)  and hope it is sorted.
C3PO will I feel be a huge contributor in the handling stakes  :-))


Thanks for your super contributions ongoing Alan  :-)
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kinmel

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First pre requisite is have jet drives (now in kit form) complete with no missing parts. For now I'll laugh it off  {-)  and hope it is sorted.
C3PO will I feel be a huge contributor in the handling stakes  :-))


Thanks for your super contributions ongoing Alan  :-)

C3PO is the driving force, just look at the seven turrets topic !
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McGherkin

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Here's my thoughts. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong!


Here's how I'd do it;
Motor speed control on auxiliary potentiometer controlled channels. You could use two seperate channels, but if my thinking is correct, you could actually get away with having both throttles on the one channel without any issue.
Buckets raised/lowered by pushing each stick up/down. Port bucket on the left stick, Starboard bucket on the.... you guessed it.
Steering by moving one of the sticks left/right. Which one you choose is up to you.

With the above control assignments, you could perform the various manoeuvres thusly; (The percentage values are arbitrary - just set as much throttle as you need to perform the manoevure, obviously you don't need to be at full throttle if you're only manoeuvring at slow speed)

For things like crabbing in a circle around a buoy, that is essentially the crabbing manouevre, but with slightly more/less bucket. With practice you should be able to perform all those manoeuvres with the above controls.

As for a suitable transmitter, you could use a Turnigy 9X, which comes with 3 potentiometers, you could use the two on the top if you were having seperate throttles, or the one on the front if you weren't (or I suppose you could use one of the top ones if it's easier to reach)


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Neil

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Here's my thoughts. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong!


Here's how I'd do it;
Motor speed control on auxiliary potentiometer controlled channels. You could use two seperate channels, but if my thinking is correct, you could actually get away with having both throttles on the one channel without any issue.
Buckets raised/lowered by pushing each stick up/down. Port bucket on the left stick, Starboard bucket on the.... you guessed it.
Steering by moving one of the sticks left/right. Which one you choose is up to you.

With the above control assignments, you could perform the various manoeuvres thusly; (The percentage values are arbitrary - just set as much throttle as you need to perform the manoevure, obviously you don't need to be at full throttle if you're only manoeuvring at slow speed)

For things like crabbing in a circle around a buoy, that is essentially the crabbing manouevre, but with slightly more/less bucket. With practice you should be able to perform all those manoeuvres with the above controls.

As for a suitable transmitter, you could use a Turnigy 9X, which comes with 3 potentiometers, you could use the two on the top if you were having seperate throttles, or the one on the front if you weren't (or I suppose you could use one of the top ones if it's easier to reach)



thank you for those great explanations McGherkin.......... could I ask, how many channels does the above tx have in total. thank you.
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Neil

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just checked the spec.........9 channels, and very reasonable price for what you get.


cheers
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McGherkin

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They’re a great radio. I have one for my Tamar.


You can also hack them and put custom software on them if you like, then they become VERY clever!
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kinmel

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I have that Turnigy, I just need to put the sticks back to friction instead of self-centering.

I will try your setup on the Shannon next week.

Moving the throttles up onto the knobs is an interesting idea.
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T33cno

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Great cos I bought the Uk one 👍
I also have a spare backlight as I converted two DX6i recently
Looking at a battery solution for it
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Neil

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Under £42 delivered from Uk warehouse
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-9x-9ch-transmitter-w-module-ia8-receiver-mode-2-afdhs-2a-system.html


Well that was easy. thanks.....at £42 quid,inc postage, you can't grumble unless it explodes in my hand lol.
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T33cno

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Well that was easy. thanks.....at £42 quid,inc postage, you can't grumble unless it explodes in my hand lol.
:-) :-))
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McGherkin

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I have that Turnigy, I just need to put the sticks back to friction instead of self-centering.

I will try your setup on the Shannon next week.

Moving the throttles up onto the knobs is an interesting idea.


You might need to tweak the trims on the transmitter to get that sweet spot of neither ahead nor astern in the middle of the stick travel, but then if you’re using friction rather than self centering then I suppose it doesn’t matter so much. Self centering would make it much easier to find your neutral position though, like a conventional boat once you let go of the sticks, she should stop driving ahead/astern.
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Neil

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don't know what I'm goin' ta do wi' it though, as I haven't got a Shannon, lol. %% %% {:-{ :embarrassed:
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smudger1309

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i used to have 9x's got couple left that are for sale


i now use a Frsky Taranis X9D Plus
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McGherkin

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don't know what I'm goin' ta do wi' it though, as I haven't got a Shannon, lol. %% %% {:-{ :embarrassed:

Neither do I! Well, not at the moment anyway... I can't promise anything!

Looking at a battery solution for it

Whoops, didn't see this last night. I know quite a few people go to 3S LiPo, apparently the Dualsky 2700mAh transmitter LiPos fit, but being LiPos you need to watch the voltage reading on the screen to make sure you don't discharge the battery too much.

That said, I haven't bothered changing the batteries, even with a backlight my 9x sips power very gently.
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Flundle (Speedline Models)

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I have just bought a Turnigy 9X 9 Channel Tranny plus Module, (whatever that is)plus receiver from Hobby King for £36.86,Fantastic value.
[/size]PLUS: tw[/size]o Turnigy 'Bolt' V2 1000mAh 4S 65~130C High Voltage Lipo Packs for £9.89 each
PLUS: two Hobby King 60A ESC A for £13.88 each.[/font][/color]
[/size]I HAD NO IDEA how expensive this hobby can be! [/color]
[/size]I am expecting lots of brilliant ideas but, please, make them as simple to understand a possible.[/color]
[/size]I think I bought a Futaba challenger for over £100 in 1990.
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Flundle (Speedline Models)

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Neil, come on now.
You have my address.
Just send money!

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Neil

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Neil, come on now.
You have my address.
Just send money!


I've 3 lifeboats to build before I get to anything that goes like a rocket mate, lol.........no.......was just wondering when you were venturing north of the border.........Lancashire border that is, lol.
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The Old Fart

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I'll be using the FLYSKY I6X transmitter with a 10 channel receiver,  only needs 4 AA batteries to power it.

one switch will change from running speed mode to maneuvering control.

running mode, left stick both throttle, right stick both directions,

maneuvering mode, left stick does port motor and direction, right stick does starboard motor and direction.

buckets and trim tabs controlled automatically.

OH and a KILLSWITCH .
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T33cno

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Sounds great. There's load of ideas coming forward so it will be interesting how many of us swap and change what we fit in light of others trials. :-)
Could be expensive  {-)
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