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Author Topic: TVR1BB Engine build  (Read 1636 times)

Captain fizz

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TVR1BB Engine build
« on: February 12, 2018, 11:58:37 AM »

Hi all,
I am currently building up this engine.
The instruction manual makes no mention of using thread lock on any of the screws.
What do the panel think?
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SteamboatPhil

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Re: TVR1BB Engine build
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2018, 12:08:23 PM »

My personal opinion is no, you don't really need it as long as everything is nice and tight. I have never used it on any of my high speed steam engines and have never had any problems.  :-))
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Captain fizz

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Re: TVR1BB Engine build
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2018, 12:11:51 PM »

Thanks for the prompt reply Phil.
I shall use no Loctite...I guess the running in period will throw up any problems anyway.
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Captain fizz

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Re: TVR1BB Engine build
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2018, 12:14:46 PM »

Any advice/recomendations on a suitable vertical boiler?
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Mark T

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Re: TVR1BB Engine build
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2018, 02:32:07 PM »

Pendle boiler all the way for me. A great product and first class after sales too.


As for the engine I agree that you don’t need to use Loctite as I haven’t on mine and so far it’s fine
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steamboatmodel

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Re: TVR1BB Engine build
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2018, 04:22:16 PM »


Save the Loctite for the boiler fitting or only use it where you will not have to adjust it.
Gerald.
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rhavrane

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Re: TVR1BB Engine build
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2018, 08:44:12 PM »

Bonjour Captain,
I confirm Mark's opinion, Pendlesteam makes a beautiful vertical boiler type Kingdon : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZQgdepAf84&t=7s
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ooyah/2

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Re: TVR1BB Engine build
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2018, 09:10:29 PM »

I must say that I disagree on not using Loctite on the assembly of a TVR engine, there are some screws that are only the equivalent of 12 B.A. and are to be assembled with the screw head on the inside of the Bell crank lever and a spot of Loctite 243 thread lock would not go amiss.
If you think about it 12 B.A. is the size of screw in the hinge of spectacles and most other screws are the equivalent to our 10B.A. on the 2- hole link with a small brass bush pressed into the link.
As these are all in the Hackworth reverse gear linkage and if one comes loose you are looking at a complete strip down, these little TVR engines can exceed 4,000 r.p.m. and can very easily loosen.


Now Phil, they can't be compared to a Flashsteam engine, on my Flashsteam engine the smallest is 6b.a. H.T.S. socket head cap screws and the head held down by 4 B.A. H.T.S. socket head cap screws and these can all be tightened down with a Hex key and nothing like the Torque applied to the slot headed screws on the TVR


I say this as I have a TVR which I didn't assemble but the previous owner made a very good job of the assembly but the smallest screw in the bell crank came out and is lost forever so I made new bushes and fitted them with 10 ba Screws with a spot of Loctite 243.
So I would recommend as spot of thread lock on all screws.


George.
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steamboatmodel

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Re: TVR1BB Engine build
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2018, 10:28:06 PM »


Just as a matter of interest what are the sizes and thread in the TVR1BB?
Gerald.
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steam up

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Re: TVR1BB Engine build
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2018, 01:11:54 PM »

Agree with George I have built 6 of these engines now and would recommend thread lock threads in my view are cut slightly too deep.

SteamboatPhil

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Re: TVR1BB Engine build
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2018, 04:41:32 PM »

Good point George, I didn't realise those engines had such small bolts on them  :-))
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IanJ

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Re: TVR1BB Engine build
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2018, 06:11:52 PM »

Hi, just to add my thoughts.

Be aware of various grades of Loctite that are available from low to high strength, there is bewildering range out there. As others have said, would suggest 243 at medium strength is as far you need to go for such small treads. Grade 221 & 222 are also suitable for small treads & are classed as low strength, dismantling can be achieved my hand tools.  The use of high strength grades such as 271 could result in damaged screw heads if dismantling was needed on such small screws.

Then of course be aware of the name thing. The name Loctite is to thread locking as Hoover is to vacuum cleaners. There are lots of other manufacturers of thread locking products, but to what grade? Halfords sell a product called "stud-lock", can't recall the maker, but it may be a high strength one & not suitable.


Others might have first hand experience of the high strength grades of loctite & the alternative makes.
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ooyah/2

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Re: TVR1BB Engine build
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2018, 06:30:42 PM »

Just as a matter of interest what are the sizes and thread in the TVR1BB?
Gerald.


Gerald,


The screws listed on the instruction manual start at


0-80 x 1/8' long
up to
2-56 x 5/16" long


I don't know what the threads are but suspect that they are American Fine.


George.
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ooyah/2

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Re: TVR1BB Engine build
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2018, 06:35:53 PM »

Hi, just to add my thoughts.

Be aware of various grades of Loctite that are available from low to high strength, there is bewildering range out there. As others have said, would suggest 243 at medium strength is as far you need to go for such small treads. Grade 221 & 222 are also suitable for small treads & are classed as low strength, dismantling can be achieved my hand tools.  The use of high strength grades such as 271 could result in damaged screw heads if dismantling was needed on such small screws.

Then of course be aware of the name thing. The name Loctite is to thread locking as Hoover is to vacuum cleaners. There are lots of other manufacturers of thread locking products, but to what grade? Halfords sell a product called "stud-lock", can't recall the maker, but it may be a high strength one & not suitable.


Others might have first hand experience of the high strength grades of loctite & the alternative makes.


Ian ,
As you say there are several grades of Loctite and the grade that I use for thread lock is Loctite 243, there are other makers but all about the same price and as I have never used another brand I can't comment.
If you want a shaft glued into a bush use Loctite 601, to dismantle the joint you need to use a blow lamp to free the joint but stay clear of the fumes as there is Cyanide in the mix, when heated it gives off a puff of smoke and you know the joint is broken.


George.
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Captain fizz

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Re: TVR1BB Engine build
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2018, 11:16:46 PM »

Many thanks for all your replies.
I have nearly finished the build, but, annoyingly I am one screw short. This screw secures the valve spindle fork to it's con rod.
No matter because I have ordered the screw upgrade which are all hex headed. I just think they look much better than the original slotted pan head screws.
I just need to make a small flywheel and then I shall be ready for a run on compressed air.
I think I have decided to complete the plant with a Pendle Kingdon boiler.
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steamboatmodel

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Re: TVR1BB Engine build
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2018, 12:26:02 AM »



Gerald,


The screws listed on the instruction manual start at


0-80 x 1/8' long
up to
2-56 x 5/16" long


I don't know what the threads are but suspect that they are American Fine.


George.
Thanks George,
0-80 is about the smallest you can normally encounter, If I have to do that small I fixture everything in the mill (unpowered) and slowly thread the hole. Still allowing I am going to brake a couple of taps.
2-56 is a bit more forgiving, but I still try to have a spare tap.
I have copied a link to a chart that show the sizes, there are a few smaller I have a small box of eyeglass screws that go down to 00-90.
With any of the above a very small bit of thread lock would do, too much and you could fill the slot on slotted screws.
Gerald.
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Captain fizz

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Re: TVR1BB Engine build
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2018, 01:13:32 PM »

Does anybody have experience of suggested weight/size for a flywheel?
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steam up

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Re: TVR1BB Engine build
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2018, 04:06:17 PM »

Must admit I don't bother with a flywheel these engine will run well without one in my experience. If you go for the Hex bolts ( they do look nice) then you definitely need to use thread lock.

Captain fizz

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Re: TVR1BB Engine build
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2018, 04:56:49 PM »

Must admit I don't bother with a flywheel these engine will run well without one in my experience. If you go for the Hex bolts ( they do look nice) then you definitely need to use thread lock.
I think that you are probably correct, I have just run the engine for the first time and am amazed how smooth and vibration free it is.
It chugs away happily fed from the airbrush compressor at 10psi.
Tis a thing of beauty! :-))
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Captain fizz

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Re: TVR1BB Engine build
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2018, 04:43:32 PM »

"xxxxx"! the valve timing has slipped due to one of the tiny drug screws on the reversing linkage loosening.
It has bent the eccentric linkage and trashed the female slide >:-o
Now to find out how easy/difficult it is to obtain spares.
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Captain fizz

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Re: TVR1BB Engine build
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2018, 04:44:56 PM »

or even GRUB screws!! :}
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Mark T

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Re: TVR1BB Engine build
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2018, 06:49:15 PM »

"xxxxx"! the valve timing has slipped due to one of the tiny drug screws on the reversing linkage loosening.
It has bent the eccentric linkage and trashed the female slide >:-o
Now to find out how easy/difficult it is to obtain spares.


About 3 weeks ago I sent a message to Graham Industries as I need a new exhaust manifold. I didn't hear anything so I emailed them again to see if they had received my first email.


Yesterday I received a reply from Robert Graham who has sent me a manifold free of charge which I should receive this week.  Now that is amazing  O0
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Captain fizz

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Re: TVR1BB Engine build
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2018, 07:29:24 PM »

Thanks for the info Mark, I will get in touch with them.
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Jerry C

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Re: TVR1BB Engine build
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2018, 11:03:46 PM »

When I had a broken part (my fault) he never answered my emails but before I could get really annoyed three of the parts turned up on my doorstep 3 days later. No charge. Just make sure that the ahead astern lever CANNOT move too far. Put something at the ends of the detention bar to prevent over travel or the slide valve actuator shaft will break.
Jerry.

Captain fizz

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Re: TVR1BB Engine build
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2018, 11:36:19 PM »

I have sent an email so will see what happens.
This episode occurred because a grub screw came loose.
When I rebuild , I shall use thread lock.
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