Topic: Boiler/Gas Tank Testing (Read 10141 times)

Steve Dean · « **Reply #25 on:** March 14, 2018, 11:43:24 am »

Hi Derek ........ thank you for your contribution.
You are quite correct, a gas tank designed for a hydraulic test of 375 PSI is very likely going to be perfectly capable of handling a test pressure of 400 PSI. I am sure that one well known manufacture is already looking at this.
However, there are several other manufacturers, that currently apply a pressure test significantly below 400 PSI and the design of their tanks may require revision.
Once the new revised 3 part 'Green Book' is issued and in use then some clarity will prevail.
There are still a number of unanswered questions, particularly around all the gas tanks that are currently in use. I continue to try and get some clear guidance on this but so far none is forthcoming.

derekwarner · « **Reply #26 on:** March 15, 2018, 12:56:48 am »

Steve...

We at our Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op are fortunate in that a number of our members are also on the Board and Committee members for the Australian Miniature Boiler Safety Committee....namely the President, Secretary and a Technical Officer

ILS also have four members who are Licenced Boiler Inspectors as being covered by our New South Wales Workcover Department

Australia had traditionally followed British Technical Standards and adopted many [word for word] in the adoption of AUS/NZ Technical Standards

The same/similar applies to our AMBSC requirements, so the wash up

[for Gas Tanks] of your UK Standards will/may apply here in due course

[On a separate mention, this UK test revision must also consider gas tanks as installed in Gauge 1 or Garden Gauge model steam engines]

Derek

jpdenver · « **Reply #27 on:** March 16, 2018, 03:21:36 am »

Derek

In the US, there are no rules on any of this. We can blow ourselves up just about
any way we want.

That being said, the ladies in my life (with 2 and 4 legs) would be upset if I came
home without the normal number of fingers.

Any chance I can order the technical manual you display?

Regards,
Jim

derekwarner · « **Reply #28 on:** March 16, 2018, 03:36:02 am »

Jim.....good to hear those sleepy dogs are all OK......send me a PM with your landline e-mail address & I'll see what I can do

............Derek

jpdenver · « **Reply #29 on:** March 16, 2018, 03:43:10 am »

Sent a PM,
Let me know if you got it.

Thanks
JP

derekwarner · « **Reply #30 on:** March 16, 2018, 04:03:53 am »

Hullo poppajim….these are registered & subject to Copyright so I cannot publish them

Check your Internet machine

Derek

ooyah/2 · « **Reply #31 on:** March 16, 2018, 11:01:43 am »

Jim P.

Jim here is the link to the current boiler regs in the U.K. ( http://www.nameng.org.uk/images/Boiler_Testing_Documents/2012_Test_Code_V12a.pdf )
You can print off the pages but make sure you have plenty of black ink in your printer. These Regs will be superseded by the new ones that are being discussed and about to come into circulation and I have no doubts that they will be published on line when ready.

There are no restrictions in printing off The Regs as the U.K. has nothing to hide, it would seam that the people in Australia don't want there Regs to be known World wide.

George.

Steve Dean · « **Reply #32 on:** March 16, 2018, 03:28:25 pm »

Jim ...... whilst you could use the link above, I wouldn't bother (unless you want to read what is about to be superseded) as the new 3 part 'Green Book' should be available in the next few weeks.

The section regarding 'gas tanks' is eagerly awaited by many people as there is a great deal of concern in the model boating & garden railway circles regarding the gas tanks people currently have fitted to their models.

As I have stated on this thread, when I have definitive information, I will alert everyone.

steamboatmodel · « **Reply #33 on:** March 16, 2018, 05:01:34 pm »

Quote from: ooyah/2 on March 16, 2018, 11:01:43 am

Jim P.
Jim here is the link to the current boiler regs in the U.K. ( http://www.nameng.org.uk/images/Boiler_Testing_Documents/2012_Test_Code_V12a.pdf )
You can print off the pages but make sure you have plenty of black ink in your printer. These Regs will be superseded by the new ones that are being discussed and about to come into circulation and I have no doubts that they will be published on line when ready.
There are no restrictions in printing off The Regs as the U.K. has nothing to hide, it would seam that the people in Australia don't want there Regs to be known World wide.
George.

Hi George,
I don't think that if is a cause of hiding things, as if you send them money they will send the regulation.
Gerald.
PS I did have a copy before I moved house, but haven't been able to find it and some other books since.

ooyah/2 · « **Reply #34 on:** March 16, 2018, 05:05:04 pm »

Quote from: Steve Dean on March 16, 2018, 03:28:25 pm

Jim ...... whilst you could use the link above, I wouldn't bother (unless you want to read what is about to be superseded) as the new 3 part 'Green Book' should be available in the next few weeks.

The section regarding 'gas tanks' is eagerly awaited by many people as there is a great deal of concern in the model boating & garden railway circles regarding the gas tanks people currently have fitted to their models.

As I have stated on this thread, when I have definitive information, I will alert everyone.

Steve,
What is available with the link is the current situation on code of practise and should be adhered to until the new Regs become official when ever that is ?
It will also give readers some insight to what it's all about when the new Regs become available.

As you and I know there is very little concrete rules that govern gas tanks and I think it will be of great help to those who have gas tanks at present as to what will have to be done to them when the Regs come out so I don't think that it would be a waist of time to have read at the existing Rules and Regs but it's up to the individuals whether to read or not.

George.

ooyah/2 · « **Reply #35 on:** March 16, 2018, 05:09:24 pm »

Quote from: steamboatmodel on March 16, 2018, 05:01:34 pm

Hi George,
I don't think that if is a cause of hiding things, as if you send them money they will send the regulation.
Gerald.
PS I did have a copy before I moved house, but haven't been able to find it and some other books since.

Gerald ,
I have no inclination to buy a copy of the Australian Regs as I am quite happy with the U.K. ones at present but look forward to the new Regs coming out.
There has been some time since a revision on gas tanks became clearer but you must remember that the Insurance Companies have been quite happy with the existing ones, however if the new ones are a bit safer and clearer it's all to the good.
George.

steamboatmodel · « **Reply #36 on:** March 16, 2018, 05:31:01 pm »

Although nether the UK or the Australian rules apply in Ontario Canada, I try to build my boilers so they would pass ether. I don't have a copy of the current Ontario Reg., but have been told that most model boilers still fall under the previous Regs. I did find out that if you are selling toy boilers in Canada they must be tested to three times working pressure.. Jim have you checked with your State Regulations, as some States do have regulations similar to Ontario, and our size boilers are exempt. It is best to check these days with the popularity of Law suites over common sense accidents.
Gerald.
George with the comprehensive Regs. in the UK I can certainly see why, and if I was in that situation I would not have bought a copy ether. At the time I bought mine one of the insurance company's here made reference to it as well as the UK ones. Over here the main problem is that with nobody authorized to issue boiler certificates, it often falls on the Fire Marshal at public events as to whether you can run or not.

ooyah/2 · « **Reply #37 on:** March 16, 2018, 05:39:50 pm »

Gerald,

I do feel for you. it must be quite daunting going to a Steam rally not knowing as to whether you will be able to sail or not at least here in the U.K. we have designated boiler tester in each club that runs steam and can test and issue Certificates that are recognised.
We in Scotland abide by the Books of Regs issued by the various Federations in England as it saves so much heart ache if you drive at aRally and not being allowed to sail.

Thanks for your input maybe J.P. can find out what is the Certification situation in in his State that he can adhere to.

George.

pendlesteam · « **Reply #38 on:** March 16, 2018, 09:38:56 pm »

This thread has prompted me to look again at the Australian reg book - I cant find the section on gas tanks but the sections on boiler making certainly leave nothing to the imagination - very defined parameters for just about every aspect of building a boiler, even down to exact dims for just about any bush size you could ever want. Whoever wrote it knew a thing or two about designing and making boilers!

jpdenver · « **Reply #39 on:** March 16, 2018, 11:39:39 pm »

Everyone,

One of the great things about this forum is how well we can exchange ideas and compare situations from around the world.

The USA and the State of Colorado specifically, generally do not worry about toys. In Colorado, the only boiler regs are those
for boilers used in the heating of a building/facility/home.

There are regs for fuel transport for propane/butane. but any commercial fuel cylinder is OK. Gas tanks can be refilled, but in general
states do not want you to transport them full.

Nothing on construction of model boilers, engines, railways, etc.

BUT IF YOUR BOAT BLOWS UP INSIDE CITY LIMITS THEY WILL ARREST/CITE YOU FOR DANGEROUS ACTIVITIES.

So my reason is one of research. The more I know about the regs in areas that care, the better I am, and the safer it will
be to have my grandchildren, and other innocent beings around me when I am steaming.

Off to my own thread,

Regards,
Jim

Steve Dean · « **Reply #40 on:** March 17, 2018, 09:41:42 am »

JP ...... I take my hat off to you Sir.

Thank you for taking such a responsible attitude and showing consideration to others.

Keep following this thread and we will collectively keep you informed. When the new 3 part revised 'Green Book' is published, I will personally provide you with a link from where you will be able to download a PDF of the document.

Very best regards
Steve.

subste · « **Reply #41 on:** March 27, 2018, 09:56:53 pm »

hi is their any update on the new regs as i have 2 boilers i need testing before mid april as there is a steam day coming up thanks in advance

ooyah/2 · « **Reply #42 on:** March 28, 2018, 06:40:21 pm »

Quote from: subste on March 27, 2018, 09:56:53 pm

hi is their any update on the new regs as i have 2 boilers i need testing before mid april as there is a steam day coming up thanks in advance

To save yourself some trouble when you go to your Steam day if it was me I would have the boilers and the Gas tanks tested under the Current Regs as the discussed future change Regulations are not applicable, as I don't suppose that the New Regs will be published and become the rule, so don't take the chance of appearing at your Steam day without any Regs.and test Certification.

It would be nice to know if boilers and tanks tested at present under the existing Regulations would be valid for how long ?

George.

subste · « **Reply #43 on:** March 28, 2018, 09:49:52 pm »

thanks for your reply .will get them tested now then. like you say at least i can run them

Steve Dean · « **Reply #44 on:** April 04, 2018, 10:09:31 am »

Gentlemen ........ I can confirm that following a few amendments the new 'Green Book' ( which will become the new 3-part 'Orange Book' ) is currently at the printers and the adoption date will be 1st May 2018.

I can confirm that the hydraulic test for gas tanks will be 400 PSI. There will obviously be a set of criteria that is part of the testing procedure.

I can also confirm that I will be able to detail (as Word documents) the 3 parts of the 'Orange Book'.

At risk of stating the obvious ....... Test Certificates (and the recording procedures) will only be issued to Clubs which are affiliated to appropriate Associations, i.e. Southern, Midland & Northern Associations of Model Engineers, MPBA, etc.

As stated previously I will make best efforts to keep you all updated.

SteamboatPhil · « **Reply #45 on:** April 04, 2018, 05:05:25 pm »

A quick heads up, the affiliated clubs to the MPBA will be issuing their own certificates.

normc12 · « **Reply #46 on:** April 07, 2018, 08:23:56 pm »

Steve.
The 3 orange books are now on the NAME website..

Steve Dean · « **Reply #47 on:** April 08, 2018, 02:11:00 pm »

Gentlemen,

The new 3 part 'Orange Book' is now in the public domain. You can find details on the web site of the Northern Association of Model Engineering Clubs at www.nameng.org.uk

I also have the 3 parts of the code as Word documents. If you care to send me a PM via Mayhem then I will email you copies of the documents.

It is interesting to note that I have not spoken to a single manufacturer that was aware or had been advised that these changes were about to come into effect. Therefore be particularly careful if buying gas tanks as you may find your purchase to be non-compliant.

steam up · « **Reply #48 on:** April 08, 2018, 02:21:10 pm »

A quick read of these regulations indicates to me that sections 5-8 do not apply to commercial gas tanks

benny · « **Reply #49 on:** April 08, 2018, 02:23:07 pm »

Hello Steve
Thanks for the information re the new regulations .I cannot see anything about older manufactured gas tanks , I have one made by Mike Abbott from Macsteam and that is only tested up to 300 psi does that mean it is no longer usable?.

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Author Topic: Boiler/Gas Tank Testing (Read 10141 times)