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[lesfac]

My 1/12 Severn is nearing tryout time. Still plenty to do but complete enough to start sailing.
I have been fitting the railings using M1 nuts and bolts I got from The Model Dockyard. The bolts and nuts are 2mm AF and I have run out of nuts and I am about 20 short.  The Model Dockyard are out of stock at the moment and the only M1 nuts I can find are all 1.5mm AF. I dont want to change size to complete the railings. Can anyone suggest sources for M1 brass nuts that are 2mm AF?. It seems 1.5 mm is more common for M1 but I need 2mm AF to complete.
Thanks in advance
Les

[Neil]

Can anyone suggest sources for M1 brass nuts that are 2mm AF?.

AF.........Across flats.......2mm between opposing  flat surfaces............or, and this is conjecture amongst some members on here, but straight from an engineer in the Royal Navy who became a metal work teacher upon his demob in 1960, and taught me metalwork from 1962-64.....AF stands for American Fine [thread that is]

[lesfac]

Definately talking M1 metric thread brass nuts 2mm across flats. 

[Ianlind]

From someone in management in the fastener and tool industry, "AF" does represent American Fine thread, but is also used to measure the size of bolt heads and nuts, and that is "Across Flats". Then you get spanners and sockets that are in AF sizes accordingly. 1/2" AF as opposed to 1/2" Whitworth or also in metric sizes such as 13mmAF.

[derekwarner]

Between a rock & a hard place Les...............following is self explanatory

M1 x 2.5 AF x 0.8 high are manufactured to DIN 934
M1 x 1.5 AF x 1.0 high are listed as Modellbau.......[model making] 

Derek

[17-09]

Hi Les,
 17-09 here, as you know I have measured all of the bolts on the Severn and have said many times that the majority of the bolts on the kickboards and plates bolted to the wheelhouse are in fact 17mm Across the Flats (AF). This works out to 1.41mm in 1/12^th scale. But as you have used and now need  2mm AF nuts and bolts,  14BA is 2mm AF and these are readily available from many model engineering suppliers here in the UK with no problems. They are a tad expensive though.
 2mm in 1/12th is 24mm, nearly an inch across the flats, that's a big bolt. (Now I've mixed Metric with Imperial, wait for the comments!)
 Kind regards   17-09
 

[Big Ada]

As if anyone would. 

[lesfac]

Thanks Alan. I will check out the 14 ba suppliers.
I decided to go ahead and use the 2mm across flats M1 nuts on the railings as  I thought the larger nuts would tighten onto the etched railing plates a bit more securely. As you know i dont count all the rivets only the big ones😁. It is annoying though when you use something in a build and then find you cant obtain more. Its not the first time on this build.
Les

[17-09]

Hi Les,
 I have used EKP Supplies for my 14BA nuts and bolts, As Derek says above, Knupfer in Germany is the place to get metric.
 Regards  Alan (17-09)
 

[lesfac]

Thanks Alan
I have just pm'd you the messages past in the post.
I have used Knupfer and I have some M1 nuts 1.5mm af.
I just looked at ekp and they dont state the af size. Have you measured any 14ba that you received from EKP?
As I put in the pm the only chart I could find on  BA af sizes said 14 ba is theoretically 0.068ins af = 1.72mm.
(I have my fingers crossed that they supply 2mm af ☺)
As always thanks for taking the trouble to help.
Les

[17-09]

Hi Les,
 I have sent you a PM, however just to confirm I have checked all my, now sadly depleted, stock of 14BA from several suppliers and they all come out between 1.95 2.08 mm, with the majority being 1.99/2.01 mm.
I think you can safely order them, try a small pack to start with, just to check they are what you need.
 Regards  Alan 17-09
 

[nemesis]

Oh the bother of trying to source tiny nuts and bolts, had the same problem when making my Trent, so I made the lot, you could just about put 50 on you thumb nail, nemesis

[lesfac]

Thanks Alan. I checked with EKP and they confirmed 14BA is 2mm across flats so I ordered nuts and bolts from them. Just a thought..... M1 and 14BA threads are very close, will one actually fit the other? Does anyone know? I guess I can find out shortly.

Nemisis..Wow where do you start making bolts and nuts that small?
I have wondered if some sort of cold heading process could produce unthreaded lookalike bolts for use as dummy bolts. Brass or copper wire could be used as its quite ductile.
Anyway hopefully my problem is solved
Thanks
Les

[grendel]

I guess start off with a 2mm AF brass hex bar

[Ianlind]

If these are only decorative, I do Nut/Bolt/Washer castings in urethane, in all or most BA sizes from 6BA to 16BA. These have a short length of tread visible.
I do also have BA hex bolt heads only, in some/most sizes as well.
Ian.