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Author Topic: Something to do while not modeling boats  (Read 5919 times)

John RC

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Something to do while not modeling boats
« on: April 16, 2018, 08:16:02 pm »


From being a child I've always been interested in large scale tanks.
Films like the Battle of the Bulge with the huge King Tiger (aka M47) and the excellent opening scenes of a rampaging Tiger 1 (aka converted T34) in Kelly's hero's fed the imagination.
Large tank model building for me started in the 70's starting with 1/24 Tamyia tanks, using xmas and birthday to fund quit an expensive hobby then for a young teen.
Rolling forward, the last twenty years of collecting culminating in this 200kg beast.
Probably the best looking tank ever designed. Chieftain, during it's time if parked up in a good killing zone, the most dangerous tank in the world. :embarrassed: 


That's unfair really, The L60 engine and gearbox did become pretty reliable towards the end of service


This one off functional 1/5 scale beauty built for the British Army for R&D during the 70's.
I probably know more about tanks than boats and always looking at historic development documented literature.
Adding to the appeal knowing that radio/remote controlled tanks have been around for a long time.   







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xrad

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Re: Something to do while not modeling boats
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2018, 08:57:53 pm »

Excellent. Please post more pics and details of your model!
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John RC

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Re: Something to do while not modeling boats
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2018, 12:15:44 am »

Hi Xrad
Glad you like Chieftain. I'm great fan of Armortek model. I have three. Though you have to be a bit of a loony tune buy one.

I have a KT, Sdkfz 7 and a Quad Morris C8 all full option.

The back end of KT and a friends Comet Venician night at Rugeley powerstation boat club (sadly now gone). That reminds me of another lemon to add another post.

P.s If I continue with this topic, I must warn every one, I'm not and never want to be associated with rivet counters. (Though I might take the micheal)

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John RC

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Re: Something to do while not modeling boats
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2018, 05:31:47 pm »

This is one of crazy things you have to do to get the 150kg KT into the car.


When your on your own, you have to concentrate being aware a slip not only wrecks the tank but the car as well.  %% 


Just like loading and unloading a large boat, care and thought has to considered where you park up.
With a 200kg Chieftain if it stops for some reason or another, it's not something you can just pick up and chuck in the back of the car.


Some would say use a trailer, but the nature of the trailer suspension would destroy the Model's own suspension. The model is much safer in a car, it's also fun driving with a 200kg lump that has the potential to run the driver over if you brake abruptly. %% [size=78%] [/size]



If you engage in fitting pyrotechnic kit to you model, you must read and abide by the rules of maintenance 



https://youtu.be/YFigCJhcv1U


Just because they are all metal models, they are quite delicate especially when loaded with a six round shot gun blank firer.


If you watch the clip, spare a thought for the owner's destroyed a £5k model, but more importantly also consider the shrapnel that may have jettisoned by the blast at the unsuspecting crowd.
 


My KT has a similar blank firer adding to the excitement. %%  but use the safer 9mm blank. They don't have the same loudness or smoke. Occasionally I'll use the 12 bore blank but spaced out with 9mm blank to reduce the risk of flash back.






[/size][size=78%][/size][size=78%] [/size]
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John RC

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Re: Something to do while not modeling boats
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2018, 05:40:53 pm »

Another view of carnage. %%


https://youtu.be/sRZfKDZ0urk


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John RC

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Re: Something to do while not modeling boats
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2018, 05:48:06 pm »

It was good to see the model owner following model owners edicate, turn off the receiver before switching off the transmitter {-)
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ballastanksian

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Re: Something to do while not modeling boats
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2018, 07:43:36 pm »



Detail and accuracy should always be the perogative of the individual modeller as it is your hobby and done for your enjoyment. If it pleases others then that is a dusting of icing sugar, if it does not then don't worry. Have fun!


Is the upper hull front cast or formed from a solid billet machined to shape?


I have just watched the videos and felt for the owner as the audience clapped thinking it was part of the show  {:-{ 


I think that Geoff's system for gun smoke ( Iron Duke topic in Warships R&D) is safer and just as effective!
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John RC

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Re: Something to do while not modeling boats
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2018, 09:19:23 pm »


Detail and accuracy should always be the perogative of the individual modeller as it is your hobby and done for your enjoyment. If it pleases others then that is a dusting of icing sugar, if it does not then don't worry. Have fun!
I could not have put it better myself. Especially having fun.




Chieftain front hull is indeed cast, as are the road wheels and turret mount. Plating has been machined and the louvers on the rear deck are beautiful, when you consider CNC machines like we have today didn't exist then.
The turret is hand made to shape. It was an empty shell when brought. Probably remote controlled originally.

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ballastanksian

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Re: Something to do while not modeling boats
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2018, 09:51:31 pm »

Is it your plan to bring it to life? It would look (and sound if you could get a card to recreate the sound of an L7) stalking a T64  :}
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Re: Something to do while not modeling boats
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2018, 05:31:53 am »

Chieftain was saved from the skip during a clear out at Chertsey testing facility before it closed. Because there was no drive train in her she had to lifted and moved around using a frame. It has the weight written on the frame I think it was 580lb. about 260kg. 60kg for the frame the rest Tank.
I'm not exactly sure why she was built late 60's early 70's, but a gentleman that worked there believed she was built to test Doppler equipment, I guessing radar recognition. I believe she was powered at one time remotely. Other than the sprocket drive shafts and one solitary gear she was empty see picture. Sprockets are stainless steel, cast road wheels, correct type of working  horsmann suspension.  The 5ft turret and main gun has transverse control aided with bearings in the turret ring allowing it to swing freely.
A few years back fitted her with the biggest wheelchair motorboxes I could get in her, performance is as good if not better than the Armortek KT, Benideni sound card fitted tuned to sound like the wheezy L60, also including British speech,cannon and machine gun sounds.

After the snow pictures were taken I had to wash the tracks in WD40 to drive out the wet, Iv'e got to look after the only set of 1/5 scale Chieftain tracks I know of.















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Klunk

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Re: Something to do while not modeling boats
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2018, 06:54:19 am »

thought i recognised it. this was on ebay some time back. was really interested in it but forgot about the auction (senility creeping up)
Nice job fitting it out. If i remember correctly, it said it was originally fitted out  with a lawn mower petrol engiine.
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xrad

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Re: Something to do while not modeling boats
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2018, 01:01:44 pm »

Just a great set of models! 
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tica

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Re: Something to do while not modeling boats
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2018, 05:36:44 pm »

When you do a post like this please add NOT Wife Safe in the subject, just got the comment H... no you are not doing that  >:-o

Other than that great model  :-))
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Mark T

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Re: Something to do while not modeling boats
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2018, 07:08:49 pm »

What a lovely tank that is an awesome model.  When we load tracked plant onto low loaders (Full size) we use anti slip mats as metal on metal has disastrous results even when they are chained.  Its just a very dense rubber matting and I reckon that you could do with some for getting up your ramps and in the back of the car  :-))

John RC

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Re: Something to do while not modeling boats
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2018, 09:05:04 pm »

To all, thank you.
Klunk, I don't think it ever had a IC engine, the fixed turret sitting over the motor mounting plate was a devil to remove, no evidence of a fuel tank or exhaust outlet. The gearbox was by my estimation was badly designed, the final drive gear was tiny. Even my limited knowledge of gearboxes knows big gears driven by little gears generate more torque, not the other way round. Probably why it was mostly missing along with the single motor. A small hole in the rear may have been the remote lead inlet.
I originally thought the model to be a presentation piece, With all the ordering that was going on in the middle east at the time. Why all the gold embellishments?
But then read the "The Tank factory" by William Suttie who worked at Chertsey, the book shows a model of a T94 made by it's model makers. I don't know if the Chieftain was built there, but Mr Suttie said the Original Chieftain was scaled down for indoor use. Makes sense, the detail, thankfully much more than required. Nice to know our taxes back then were well spent.


Tica, these models are the most wife safe models you can buy.
The investment is high I grant you, but like good jewelry you'll only get them out now and then. mostly just stare at them, improve and maybe tinker. Bit selfish, but still holding a majority of their value.
Now look at the wife's investments, nice clothes, excellent expensive beauty products, nights out with the girls, fine wine and food, not to mention the hair dresses and who can forget shoes......... all those shoes. Take this over five years. Well, what is her investment worth, " Her Happiness" (and not much else) but I'm sure still worth every penny.
Now look at a large model tank owners investment. Happiness and continued value, maybe a little more or a little less. The real winner is the wife.
She can sell the models if your not around.
Don't show her this though, German ebay de %%



Mark your right, the difficult bit is when the tank enters the car, it pivots forward and the tracks try to shed and push the ramps backwards. I built these hook devices to prevent this action. Still tricky on your own though.
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ballastanksian

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Re: Something to do while not modeling boats
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2018, 09:39:34 pm »


She is a beauty. I am impressed with the properly shaped hull and even the GPMG is pretty fine considering. It would be a challenging and hopefully fun model engineering project to get her back into service. Your point about the tracks rings a bell when talking to the owner of an Armourtek Tiger. He said the tracks and sprockets last about 400 hours, so unless you can make a pattern of a track (castings shrink, so the pattern has to be the percentage of shrink larger than the end product) it would end up a sad stationary model  <:( Have you any spare tracks?


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John RC

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Re: Something to do while not modeling boats
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2018, 12:08:04 am »

Chieftain is fully operational, except for gun elevation. I weighed up the reasons "why" and "why not". "Leverage" swung it, the gun is very long and too tempting for someone to hang onto and damage, The gun can be set to a pre determined elevation, to be honest I just set the elevation and enjoy the turret movement without the fear of wiring being trapped doing 360 turret degree rotations.

No spare tracks though, if I used her a little more I could draw a couple out with the stretch. If desperate they can be made at a price.
I try to use the tanks on soft ground, but the damp and dirt will still get in. Pebbles and gravel a real no no.

The KT gets quite a bit of use, broke a pair of tracks a couple of years ago, taking a few photos in the snow in the garden, the only way to move it was to remove the other side and push it back into the garage. Stripped and serviced both sides completely found half a dozen worn out tracks, so it was worth the time and work. I wrote a topic on Armortek forum something like "manitain your tracks"

Your friend did very well for 400 hours, Sprockets and tracks can set you back quite a bit, that's if you can get them. My friends Comet suffers from "sprocket hooking" where the pegs of the sprocket roll over at the tip, the full size vehicle did the same thing. It's Beautiful model, very fast compared to KT, the last of the cruisers.

















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ballastanksian

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Re: Something to do while not modeling boats
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2018, 07:29:00 pm »

I saw the bloke at the Shepton Mallet model show three years ago, and noticing the worn sprockets asked him about their wear rate. The time mentioned suggested depends on how often you get it out to run. If you managed to get out for two hours every Saturday say then the tracks and sprockets are toast in four years. I looked at building a metal A7V whilst member of a model engineer club, but various parts of the build became a jig fest if I built the tracks myself or a wallet slaughter if I got them cast. I could make the pattern with ease. I bought metal for the chassis and was given some very nice 1/8th aluminium for the scale thickness armour.
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John RC

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Re: Something to do while not modeling boats
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2018, 09:07:51 pm »

1/8 scale is certainly an easier scale to handle. The Winson Tiger1 1/8 scale was I believe the first commercially available all metal model tank to build at home in your back room. You only needed the most basic of tools to make a decent stand off model. Pretty much the way I build models, Winson went bust half way though the build, Modelworks completed supply of parts for the kit.
With 1/8 scale, it's possible to lifted by an individual, 15 years ago I'd take the turret off, then lift and put the hull in the car followed by the turret.
Try the same with a 1/6 tank, and you will probably get yourself a double hernia. <:( [size=78%] [/size]
Of course the best thing about 1/6 is all the equipment available on the market.
Armortek have been doing some smaller models recently, the 1/6 scale Quad Morris C8 still heavy but like the Winson Tiger1, I built it so that it can be split in two. It's an excellent towing tractor, 4x4 and I don't have to worry about track wear and tear.




   
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ballastanksian

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Re: Something to do while not modeling boats
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2018, 10:23:41 pm »


Its good to see they are making an effort with the tyres. I would love to design several tyre types to suit military and civvy commercial vehicle models in their common scales, as Armourtek products may not be available for ever.



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John RC

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Re: Something to do while not modeling boats
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2018, 05:03:55 pm »


In the past Armortek have built few vehicles with wheels, a cute KFZ 222 armored car, three half tracks and recently a 1916 Rolls Royce armored car. The latest offering is a Famo half track, orders being taken.  %%


The Famo will be monster longer than KT, sharp edges and heavy as hell. Rupture magnet


The Sdkfz 7 I've got is a handful in many ways.


This "Quad" Morris C8 is lovely design, a reasonably light weight with a powerful 4x4 chassis. The round thing at the rear is a working winch. 

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ballastanksian

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Re: Something to do while not modeling boats
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2018, 08:50:09 pm »

Ooh, a FAMO! My second favourite halftrack after the 1ton DEMAG. That FAMO will be a beauty. Do pop some photos up of her for me/us to envious of  :} Will it be an early or late version? The late version had a tube bumper and cut back squarer mudguards.
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John RC

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Re: Something to do while not modeling boats
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2018, 11:12:00 pm »


Noooooo, Not another Famo lover, >>:-(

I'm not going to order a Famo. I've got enough on my plate with the SDkFz 7. which has been sitting on the bench for the last 7 years. I think the 7's better looking anyway. better proportioned.

Armortek only offered to build/sell the Famo if 30+ orders were made with deposite.

I'm sure they'll do a good job though, but I'd like to see one if I was to buy one. I'm guessing it will weigh in at around 100kg, with the full option kit, I don't think there won't be a lot of change from £6500.00+

Now's the time to act though, Armortek make short orders, when there gone there gone! ....................................Where have I heard that one before?  {-)

Of course it could be true in instantance <:(

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Re: Something to do while not modeling boats
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2018, 06:22:33 pm »


Noooooo, Not another Famo lover, >>:-(

I'm not going to order a Famo. I've got enough on my plate with the SDkFz 7. which has been sitting on the bench for the last 7 years. I think the 7's better looking anyway. better proportioned.

Armortek only offered to build/sell the Famo if 30+ orders were made with deposite.

I'm sure they'll do a good job though, but I'd like to see one if I was to buy one. I'm guessing it will weigh in at around 100kg, with the full option kit, I don't think there won't be a lot of change from £6500.00+

Now's the time to act though, Armortek make short orders, when there gone there gone! ....................................Where have I heard that one before?  {-)

Of course it could be true in instantance <:(


Oh go on, they're lovely and have loads of presence. I cannot wait to see one at a show in the future!
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John RC

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Re: Something to do while not modeling boats
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2018, 10:23:28 am »

No sorry to all the Famo lovers, I'm not buying one. I currently have the SDkfz 7 half track in bit's, (come to think of it most of my models are in bit's) Projects in progress. :embarrassed:
 
It's the steering, You can't turn them like a tank, well you could, but it would look stupid dragging round the front wheels. German half track wheels where never powered, just there to support the weight of the motor plant.
On the real German half tracks there was some steering ability from the wheels but only for about 15 degrees of turning the steering wheel either side. After that steering clutches came into play on the tracks.
The models have two motors so you need progressive power on both tracks and the steering front wheels all going in the same direction if you want it to look right. (Not like mixing on a boat)
Which means at the moment the 7 half track has a turning circle of about 10 foot which is why it's in bits awaiting mods to tighten things up. {:-{


Famo will be very rare beast to have and see and it will need very strong shelve to be queen of. %% [/size] Left in a box unmade with all the sheet metal well greased, well it could be good investment. But if your not going to build something better to invest in bullion {-)
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