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Author Topic: Sail appearance and wind direction indication  (Read 557 times)

GaryC1234uk

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Sail appearance and wind direction indication
« on: April 22, 2018, 10:21:07 AM »

Newbie question again - having acquired a Dragon Force 65 V6 I am thinking the sails are very plane (well mostly plain white). Do folks know a good (safe) way to decorate/jazz-them-up-a-bit without breaking the bank? I could do with something that will make it more 'spottable' at a distance when surrounded by other boats' at the pond. Not talking full peacock - just 'brighter'.

Also is there a model boat equivalent of the burgees (wind direction indicator) that works ? I am struggling to read the wind direction on the local pond as they scaled down boat's wind is influenced by every tree / bush / wall / passing dog !

Thanks in advance !

Gary
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tigertiger

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Re: Sail appearance and wind direction indication
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2018, 11:12:36 AM »

Color, I have hear people using slightly watered down acrylic paints to color sails. It might be better to color the whole sail than try to pattern. If you know a good artist, then a permanent marker pen can add patterns. From my own experience black is fairly UV resistant, blue not bad, red will disappear in a a season, after first fading to pink.


Burgees will not help much. Burgees and tell tails are useful if you are on the boat, but you won't be.
Look at how full the sails are. If they are full let them out a little until the start to loose fullness. If they start to flutter at the edges, draw them in a little.


Have a look at points of sail stuff, and use this as a guide, although the wind over the boat may be at different angles to the wind past you on the shore. Especially if you are sailing near buildings, or hills. In the diagram, for points of sail, you will see when running the sails are on opposite sides. The boat will tend to do this on its own without your help. You don't need to worry about special RC control for this.


The other thing is basic sails set up. Once you have a grip of the basics you can download stuff on fine tuning, but the basics are:
Allow a slight belly in the sail. Not too tight on the boom not too loose, but you need a slight belly.
Make sure your sails are set so that when fully pulled in, they are not on the centre line of the boat. The jib can be about 10-15 degrees, and the main about 5-1010 degrees off centre.. This creates an aerodynamic slot that helps pull the boat forward.


Try this setup first, and then learn the theory later. See pic. The rest is just practice.
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ChrisF

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Re: Sail appearance and wind direction indication
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2018, 11:23:40 AM »

I've got the Hydropro Affinity equivalent and have added some numbers to the sails from e.g. RC Yachts.

As well as breaking up the plainess of the sails you need them if you intend to do a bit of friendly racing  at your local club.


If you really want it to stand out you could get some fluorescent tape and put some near the top of the sails and the mast etc. where it won't stiffen up the sails.


Chris
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tigertiger

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Re: Sail appearance and wind direction indication
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2018, 12:45:02 PM »

That jogs a thought, I don't know about Dragon Force, but the Victoria uses clear plastic, stickon, as battens. When they finally fell off, I just glued them back on. If the DF uses battens, you could use colored plastics for battens.


Further point of clarification on Reply#1 above. When the sails are maximum filled, look at the angles you see, and that will tell you your point of sail. If you are sailing near, or worst case surrounded by, buildings, the wind can change direction in less than a meter. In this case, you also need to learn your piece of water (e.g. I know that when I am in line with the end of the bridge, the wind shifts 90 deg. etc.).
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Sail appearance and wind direction indication
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2018, 02:31:04 PM »

He's sailing on Fairhaven - no buildings but plenty of trees and hedges and a couple of islands (one with big trees), so the wind strength and direction does vary considerably over very short distances, and the effect of the surroundings varies with the overall wind.  The aerodynamics over the ornamental Spitfire memorial give some interesting effects as well. In the corner that the scale section uses, I've watched my Victoria tack three times in ten yards without changing direction.
Coloured markings on sails need to be big enough to be seen at a distance - too small and they just vanish.  WW2 camo schemes had this figured out, at a distance the small details just merged. 
Depending on the sail material, sticky back plastic might be a good option to see what works visually as an experiment.  Obviously not the entire sail, just patches.  It will need something, though.  He isn't the only Dragon driver, and it can get tricky when the boat that you think you are driving doesn't respond but your actual one is making its break for freedom.
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tigertiger

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Re: Sail appearance and wind direction indication
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2018, 05:53:54 PM »

It sound like using acrylic to paint/dye the sail yellow (for example) would be a solution.
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GaryC1234uk

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Re: Sail appearance and wind direction indication
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2018, 09:00:43 PM »

Color, I have hear people using slightly watered down acrylic paints to color sails. It might be better to color the whole sail than try to pattern. If you know a good artist, then a permanent marker pen can add patterns. From my own experience black is fairly UV resistant, blue not bad, red will disappear in a a season, after first fading to pink.


Burgees will not help much. Burgees and tell tails are useful if you are on the boat, but you won't be.
Look at how full the sails are. If they are full let them out a little until the start to loose fullness. If they start to flutter at the edges, draw them in a little.


Have a look at points of sail stuff, and use this as a guide, although the wind over the boat may be at different angles to the wind past you on the shore. Especially if you are sailing near buildings, or hills. In the diagram, for points of sail, you will see when running the sails are on opposite sides. The boat will tend to do this on its own without your help. You don't need to worry about special RC control for this.


The other thing is basic sails set up. Once you have a grip of the basics you can download stuff on fine tuning, but the basics are:
Allow a slight belly in the sail. Not too tight on the boom not too loose, but you need a slight belly.
Make sure your sails are set so that when fully pulled in, they are not on the centre line of the boat. The jib can be about 5 degrees, and the main about 10 degrees off centre.. This creates an aerodynamic slot that helps pull the boat forward.


Try this setup first, and then learn the theory later. See pic. The rest is just practice.

I understand the points of sailing since I used to sail dingys. However if I don't know the wind direction its all just trial and error. I am lacking the tell-tails and the feel (feedback) you get through the sheets when your in thr boat. Guess I just need to just learn a new technique which is purely visual.

Sounds like acrylic paint may be the way to customise my boat - yellow would please SHMBO.

cheers

Gary
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tigertiger

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Re: Sail appearance and wind direction indication
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2018, 02:29:16 AM »

To some degree it is trial and error. Your feedback is not as direct as on a full size boat but there are clues. You know your points of sail, now work backwards from what you know/see of the boats behavior. You intrinsically know this, but may not have worked backwards before.

You know the boats position on the water. You know the position of your sheets, from your sticks on the RC transmitter (Tx), you know your rudder position. You can see how your sails are behaving. On smooth water you an see your wake.
Imagine you are sailing along, and your sheets are half out. Push the stick on your TX to let out more sheet. If the sail snaps out you have more thrust, showing your sail was hauled in too much before. If the sail does not move your sheets were too slack.
If you let the sheets in/out a little and she appears to accelerate/decelerate...
If you are on a starboard tack and you are having to use more port rudder to keep her straight (watching the wake), you are close hauled and may have your sheets hauled in a little too far. You may not have watched your wake sailing in the real world.

The other clues you know. Heel angles, dropping off before going into irons, broaching etc.

There is trial and error yes, but there are clues and also the need for practice. I have been on waters with light to no wind, trying to do everything right and getting very little movement. Others have been moving on at a slow and steady pace. Beginning with the boat within easy view, and as you get more practice, you can judge better when the boat is further away.
You can try to use a pennant atop the mast, the problem is that you don't know if the pennant is angled towards you are away from you.

One final thing to add, find a piece of water with consistent winds across it if you can. This will make learning your boat's behaviour easier. Once you have learned the boat, you can tell which perversities are caused by difficult winds.


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GaryC1234uk

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Re: Sail appearance and wind direction indication
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2018, 09:27:11 AM »

To some degree it is trial and error. Your feedback is not as direct as on a full size boat but there are clues. You know your points of sail, now work backwards from what you know/see of the boats behavior. You intrinsically know this, but may not have worked backwards before.
...
One final thing to add, find a piece of water with consistent winds across it if you can. This will make learning your boat's behaviour easier. Once you have learned the boat, you can tell which perversities are caused by difficult winds.

Thanks

Gary
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