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Author Topic: Kicking a dead dog (Equipage Riviera 80)  (Read 685 times)

Goldenstar38

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Kicking a dead dog (Equipage Riviera 80)
« on: June 06, 2018, 12:42:00 AM »

Thank you for allowing me to join your group!I recently purchased a new (but old) still in box, Equipage Riviera 80. My intent was to install some leftover RC parts I had and convert to an RC boat. I got it at a great price so it was hard to walk away from.
Trying to research this boat, I found some old posts online from 2006, but it appears this boat was not too popular for many reasons.
When I removed from the original package, a wood joint on the deck was already separating. Bad build quality or shipping around for years? So, while intend to seal the interior with epoxy, I have started to sand all the old high gloss finish off to bare wood and coat with epoxy and a very light cloth, to keep the wood appearance.Now, my main question: The white paint below the waterline and hull is in great shape. The hull appears to also be double planked. The paint is also very hard to remove. Can I safely glass the top and sides of the hull down to the waterline and repaint the hull below the waterline to seal it? Or, will the white paint need to be removed as well?
Also, as for humidity, I liveaboard a 38 foo trawler in SoCal (Marina del Rey) so it is relatively consistent. Sorry for being long winded and I appreciate any advice.
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tigertiger

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Re: Kicking a dead dog (Equipage Riviera 80)
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2018, 01:50:39 AM »

I can't answer your paint question, but it might be an idea to leave your model out of the box to acclimatize for a week or so. I imagine your home has fairly high humidity, and it is possible the model's last home was dry. Things will also become a little less brittle with a little more humidity.
Just a thought.
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Goldenstar38

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Re: Kicking a dead dog (Equipage Riviera 80)
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2018, 03:51:06 AM »

Thank you tigertiger!The planking separation on deck was quite wide (1/8"). When I saw this and the boat had never been out of the package nor seen water yet, and did not change after a week on display, I decided to sand off whatever sealer the factory use and epoxy. Even if the gap closed, it was still there and I didn't want any water intrusion later.I'll keep searching about the bottom paint issue.Thanks again.
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derekwarner_decoy

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Re: Kicking a dead dog (Equipage Riviera 80)
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2018, 04:42:30 AM »

As they say,........a picture or 2 is worth a thousand words   %) .....will also help & better understand your issue.....

A few years back, we had a similar story on a Asian build display speed boat.....[could have been a Riviera?] have you used the search facility?

Derek
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Derek Warner

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Goldenstar38

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Re: Kicking a dead dog (Equipage Riviera 80)
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2018, 04:56:49 AM »

Hello Derek.
Thank you for the reply.I can try and post a couple of pictures tomorrow. A bit dark here tonight. All they may show is my now sanded decks and I started on the hull sides after work.I did some online research over the weekend. Most posts were from Australian builders. But no, I am new on this site and will need to investigate the search facility here.
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tigertiger

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Re: Kicking a dead dog (Equipage Riviera 80)
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2018, 05:54:37 AM »

I have just Googled 'restoring shrunken wood'. There are quiet a few ideas, including homemade recipes to treat the wood. One of the homemade recipes involves vinegar, olive oils and mayonnaise; which requires thoughts about finish afterwards. One of the other solutions is caulking, in one case with thin strips of pine.

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roycv

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Re: Kicking a dead dog (Equipage Riviera 80)
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2018, 08:40:16 AM »

Hello TT, some years ago I was trying to restore some very tired wood from possibly 100+ years ago.  A pond yacht all screwed planking, that which had been glued had brittle joints.  I tried making the wood damp and then immersing it in water, there was some expansion but the surface stayed as it was a little rough.

 Other things stopped my attempts but I was coming to the conclusion that a complete removal of the surface weathered wood was the only solution.  Unfortunately some of the planks were rather thin after initial fitting and sanding.
I decided that I would get the planks expanded with water and then leave to dry out and afterwards against my instincts use epoxy resin to add strength and give an acceptable finish, however I never got that far.  I agree that a suggested restoration of the wood with the mixture suggested might make choosing a finish difficult.
She is in the back of a cupboard now but I still have guilty feelings about her!
I have restored a couple of B & B hulls about 60 years old, sanded back to the wood and found an excellent surface as good as new wood.  This was a pine or similar wood but mahogany and similar seem to lose 'oils' that hold them together.   
I have just stripped the surface of a not very old wooden garden table back to bare wood and used Danish oil on the surface, several coats has not allowed the recent rain to penetrate so might consider this as a finish.  The old hull has had an attempt to waterproof it with an application of black bitumen on the inside, I think I have to live with that.
regards Roy
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Goldenstar38

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Re: Kicking a dead dog (Equipage Riviera 80)
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2018, 07:09:31 PM »

Thanks for the replies.I don't think humidity caused the issue, but rather just poor construction originally. All of the deck planking is tight, except the separation of 2 planks. I'll try to post a picture after work.
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Brian60

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Re: Kicking a dead dog (Equipage Riviera 80)
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2018, 10:10:51 AM »

Very easily obtained in the U.S from places like Walmart is an epoxy product for finishing such things as table tops. When you have finished your repairs to the woodwork, all you need do is pour this self levelling product on and leave it to harden. It forms a glasslike surface that is highly polished, very very hard and very very shiny! - just wish it were obtainable in Spain  %%  It can be bought in the UK though from East Coast Composites, so if anyone wants any in blighty :-))

Goldenstar38

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Re: Kicking a dead dog (Equipage Riviera 80)
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2018, 09:19:23 PM »

Hello Brian60.West Systems has a hardener #207 for use with their 105 epoxy that does that as well. Also has no blush when dry.
Does anyone happen to know what type of hull sealer, below the waterline the Vietnamese builders use to seal their hulls? I started to sand the white paint off my hull at lunch (about a 4 square inch, or 100mm section) and came to a green layer of something. Not sure what it is. I live in a marina and have seen some wood epoxy filler used by a repair company on an old Grand Banks to fix a small section on the house which was a similar color. I'm hoping I can perhaps just sand down to the green stuff and maybe epoxy over it. Maybe I'm in over my head!
Any ideas?
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tigertiger

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Re: Kicking a dead dog (Equipage Riviera 80)
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2018, 02:57:51 AM »

The green sounds like it could be auto body filler, which would not act as a sealer, merely a way of smoothing the hull when shaping. I believe auto body filler is porous, the top coats do the sealing. If it is body filler, you can stop sanding now.
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Goldenstar38

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Re: Kicking a dead dog (Equipage Riviera 80)
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2018, 03:33:07 AM »

Hello Tigertiger.Does this mean I can glass over the green stuff? If so, that would be awesome!Because I'll tell you, that white paint is tough stuff. Spent almost an hour after work and only have about 10 inches done, on one side.

I have most of the decking and hull sides sanding done and down to bare wood. Need to finish the bottom now. If I can figure out how to resize my pictures, I'll post a few.

Thanks again for the input. I also have an RC Dumas Carol Moran I built years ago and a ProBoat Volere, and this is my first venture into a real wooden boat.
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tigertiger

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Re: Kicking a dead dog (Equipage Riviera 80)
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2018, 04:01:00 AM »

I have never done glassing, but I am sure someone else will chime in. About whether or not it is body filler and if you can glass over it.
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john mantova

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Re: Kicking a dead dog (Equipage Riviera 80)
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2018, 04:28:31 AM »

Lay lightweight glass cloth over hull and use Poly C or Ronseal floor varnish to seal it to the hull. Many threads on doing this are available on Model aircraft forae and Google will put you onto some as well. Also you tube. You may leave the paint on just lightly keyed ( Sanded ) I  think also Pinterest has threads too.
 Additional coats sanded between will fill the weave and leave a high gloss. It may be painted if needed then coat with the varnish if you want.

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Goldenstar38

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Re: Kicking a dead dog (Equipage Riviera 80)
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2018, 04:37:36 AM »

Hello John.Thank you for the reply.So, have I ruined any chance of sealing as you describe, as I have started to sand off the hull bottom paint already?I have the paint sanded off in about a 10 inch section on the hull bottom now, down to the green "fairing compound".
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Brian60

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Re: Kicking a dead dog (Equipage Riviera 80)
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2018, 03:57:01 PM »

I think if your paint is so tough then a chemical stripper might be better put to use. Then sand the hull straight after removing it, then finish as per various suggestions. Anything you lay over the top of the 'green stuff' is going to seal it for the purposes of a model, full size stuff there would be more prep work to do. If you are still unsure about the 'green stuff' get some - no stuff that, you are in California :}  such things as cellulose thinners are banned there! If you could perhaps get hold of maybe an oz or so of acetone. Dab it on the green stuff with a small brush and see if it dissolves, that will tell you if its car body filler or not.

john mantova

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Re: Kicking a dead dog (Equipage Riviera 80)
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2018, 05:45:09 PM »

Don't worry about the green stuff Just rub down lightly as I said feathering the paint edges and class cloth and Poly C etc over it all.Then repeat coats to fill the weave sanding between. The paint to hide the green stuff. Either leave it a painted finish or varnish over after very light sanding for a key. When hardened you could buff for a high gloss. You could use resin with the glass if you prefer.
 Go on don't give up    John O/T
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Goldenstar38

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Re: Kicking a dead dog (Equipage Riviera 80)
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2018, 05:51:44 PM »

Hello Brian60 and John. Thank you for the input. I might try the acetone as I have a quart aboard. My concern with paint stripper is the possibility of getting anything on the hull sides or decking, which might prelude my being able to stain the wood evenly. The sanding is a bit of work, and I probably should have just scuffed it up, feathered to the wood and epoxied over, but too late now. I may just do the other side of the hull to match the one I have sanded. Worst case, the hull below the waterline will be absolutely smooth and blemish free.

I found a member here yesterday, Kmot, who built an Equipage Venice 12 or so years ago. I read his build thread, all 350 or so posts. He built a beautiful boat! I wish I had that talent. He sent me some horror stories about his and also another members video of his boat. The owned riddled it with pellet gun rounds and lit it on fire!!
THIS HAS NOW BECOME A PERSONAL CHALLENGE!! Worst case, I will have too many hours involved, and may not have a suitable RC boat, but an awesome static display which I would probably sell.
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john mantova

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Re: Kicking a dead dog (Equipage Riviera 80)
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2018, 10:50:23 PM »

If you :-))  dissolve the green stuff you then has to refill it. Leave it alone> :-))  No reason you can't make it a nice R.C. boat.Don't try removing more paint. It is likely an epoxy finish and more trouble than it's worth. Just go the glass cloth route. BTW. the gap in the deck is most easily filled with balsa or car filler. This seems to have been forgotten in the hassle with the paint. :-)) :-))
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Goldenstar38

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Re: Kicking a dead dog (Equipage Riviera 80)
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2018, 06:13:34 PM »

Thank you John.I spend some time looking at the hull yesterday and noted that it was quite uneven, measuring side to side. For example, just using a straight edge on the flat end of the transom, behind the rudder tube, one side was rounded in, the other bulged out. So, what I did was sand both sides lightly to get everything level. I did a similar thing measuring up towards the bow every 6 inches and then made a template to use for measuring. I was able to sand the entire hull bottom yesterday, fair and everything is now even and blended in side to side. Some areas have paint, some that green filler.

Next, finish sand a few small spots on the hull deck and start glassing! I need to figure out the resizing of pictures. The information I found in the Help section did not quite work. I'll keep trying!
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Goldenstar38

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Re: Kicking a dead dog (Equipage Riviera 80)
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2018, 12:27:49 AM »

Hello. Just a quick follow up. As you might say in the UK, this boat is kicking my 'bottom'!After fixing the hull deck crack, I finished sanding, fairing and let it sit a few days. It looked good, so I wiped it down and stained the hull and deck. Looked great! Let it sit a few more days getting ready to glass and now the deck planking is cracking in different areas.

I think I will need to remove the deck planking and do it all over. I'd send pics, but now my cellphone died. When it rains it pours!
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