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Author Topic: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"  (Read 29591 times)

Neil

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #50 on: July 31, 2018, 09:51:02 pm »


lovely planking Charlie.that will be a strong hull.

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ChrisF

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #51 on: July 31, 2018, 09:58:56 pm »

Progressing well now.

As per the advice in one of the earlier posts are you going to cover in calico/cloth before the second layer of planking?

I've been wondering if this is necessary in a model (mine will be 27" long) as due to the size and all the glue used it will be a very solid construction and I'm going to cloth and resin the outside and resin the inside. I can understand it being necessary in a full sized boat due to the movement in heavy seas and that due to differing temperatures and humidity, where it would be quite considerable.
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Charlie

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #52 on: August 01, 2018, 03:15:49 pm »

Hi Chris,
I don't think i will be applying a layer of Calico between the planks.
How is your build going?


Charlie

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #53 on: August 03, 2018, 10:13:38 am »

Over the weekend I did a bit of research into how the full sized Lifeboats were built, and to find out whether in fact a layer of Calico was placed between the layers of planking. I found that back in the 1970’s, the RNLI Journal contained a series of 10 articles entitled “Building a Rother Class Lifeboat”, which contained all the build information you could possibly want! I knew that these boats used the ‘Double Diagonal’ hull construction method, and had assumed that there were 2 layers of planks. However on reading the description, it transpires that actually there was a longitudinal layer between the 2 diagonal layers, so 3 layers in total. And there is no mention of any Calico being used, so I assume by the time these boats were built, the use of Calico had been phased out. This is how the process is described in the Journal:
The 37' Rother class lifeboat is of cold moulded wood construction; which means that, instead of solid timber, her hull is a skin made up of three layers of thin planks, laid at different angles and bonded together with glue into one immensely strong laminate moulded to the boat's shape. The first skin is the thickest. These planks are 8 mm agba, about 4" wide before they are shaped. The planks are laid diagonally across the longitudinals and timbers of the boat's frame, bottom aft to top forward, at an angle of 45 degrees.  Once all the planks of the first skin are laid, it will probably be necessary to do a little fairing with the plane in way of the solid wood members of the frame, particularly the longitudinals, to make sure that this first skin is quite smooth, with no high points. Now for the second skin—a thinner one, of 6 mm agba, which will be laid straight fore and aft. Each strake of the second skin is bonded to the first skin with resorcinol glue and fastened with silicon bronze staples. The third skin, also of 6 mm agba, is once again laid diagonally, but this time on the opposite diagonal to the first skin: top aft, bottom forward. It is glued in the same way as the second skin and fixed with staples. Now that the three layers have been built up, the completed skin is finally fastened through to the solid timber longitudinals with 12 gauge screws at 3" centres.

ChrisF

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #54 on: August 03, 2018, 02:59:10 pm »

Charlie - very interesting information on how the full-size boats were built. Size for size our hulls are going to be extremely strong!

Not started building the Fairey Fisherman yet. Been at the research stage and just about to start the drawings. I've got three other Faireys on the go though!

Chris
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Charlie

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #55 on: August 04, 2018, 10:14:18 pm »


I learned from the Journal that the Planks are actually called Strakes, so that is what I will refer to them as, from now on. The good thing about the recent heatwave is that is doesn't half shorten my glue drying time. So today I was able to fix about 15 Strakes :-)
Here are a few photos to show how far I have got.

Neil

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #56 on: August 12, 2018, 06:52:35 pm »

looking mighty fine work indeed...……...wish my planking was as neat. :-))
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Charlie

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #57 on: August 13, 2018, 09:45:26 pm »

Well, I finally finished the first layer of planking. That didn't take nearly as long as I was expecting. She's not looking too bad, what do you think? Now for some serious sanding, filling, then more sanding.....

Neil

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #58 on: August 14, 2018, 12:53:25 am »




looks pretty damn good to me...…...a lovely hull forming there.  O0 O0 :-))
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Charlie

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #59 on: August 14, 2018, 05:12:34 pm »

Hi Neil,
I have given her a good sanding, and overall she is pretty smooth. You can see some slightly darker areas, which is where there is a bit of a dip, but these dips seem to be a maximum of 1mm deep. So i'm wondering whether i actually need to apply any filler to these areas, or if i should just go straight ahead with the second layer of planking. What would your advice be?
As you can see, i was so pleased with the result that i got a bit carried away with the picture taking ;)


Charlie

Neil

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #60 on: August 14, 2018, 05:19:40 pm »

I don't honestly think you would need to fill those, as you'd loose some adhesive properties if areas were filled......you'd be much better just laying on the second layer of planking using aliphatic resin adhesive......and gain a greater adhesive bond.
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derekwarner

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #61 on: August 14, 2018, 11:24:02 pm »

Hullo Charlie.......so no, not questioning a Pom who taught Chippie Kids in OZ. %)......however expecting an Aliphatic wood glue to fill   small slabs of 1 mm gap is asking or using way outside the manufacturers recommendations 

Could I would suggest researching easy sandable, gluable wood fillers first...... O0

There are a few UK possibilities via Google...you may need to use a manufactures Help line for your question....I have found such woodworking associated Help line staff only too helpful in providing suggestions & recommendations

[I am not sure how you will apply tension in the plank of the second layer which results in a clamping force between the second layer plank and the first layer]

Don't rush.......make sure it  is the best way forward, first

Derek


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Neil

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #62 on: August 15, 2018, 11:03:39 am »

AHHH, I don't know these ozzies are looking at the problem all upside down I'm afraid   %% {-) O0
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Charlie

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #63 on: August 15, 2018, 12:20:55 pm »

Thanks for the replies chaps. So on the one hand using filler may lessen the adhesive properties between the layers of planks. But on the other hand, not using filler may result in some voids between the layers that the adhesive won't fill. There is only one thing to do - conduct an experiment! I have to hand some BodyWorx Filler, so i have prepared a piece of Plywood with a layer of filler. I have then glued some pieces of Lime Planking, using the adhesives i have available. When this has all set (probably tomorrow) i will try pulling the Lime pieces off, and see how effective each adhesive has been. I will report back with my findings %)

spongie

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #64 on: August 15, 2018, 03:50:27 pm »

It's worth remembering you won't be covering the whole hull in filler. there will still be a significant amount of wood to give a good grip between layers of planking.

are you going to use a layer of "calico" I've seen Mike P use J-Cloths for this!

you could always do what we did with the real things and rivet the planking too {-)

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Charlie

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #65 on: August 15, 2018, 04:00:35 pm »

Hi Spongie,


You need to catchup son, we already been through the Calico issue quite a few posts ago {-)


Can you please advise the correct number of rivets to use?  Wouldn't want to get that wrong!

spongie

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #66 on: August 15, 2018, 07:49:56 pm »

I've slept since that was discussed!.


I'll send you the correct number of rivets by private message...
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Rottweiler

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #67 on: August 16, 2018, 10:19:46 pm »

looking mighty fine work indeed...……...wish my planking was as neat. :-))
I must admit I haven't been following this build...until now! Its amazing that there is such an intricate shape in this hull,and you have done it well.
Reminds me of when I built my 2 metre long Battleship,using this method,and believe me it IS immensely strong.Im going back a good many years,and only had cascamite as a glue,but when it set it really did and does hold! At one stage of planking,I had over 1000 pins in place (no I didn't count them lol,I knew how many was in a packet.Ah well 35 years on and she still isn't finished.
Keep up the good work,and I certainly will be following your progress from now on.
Mick F
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Neil

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #68 on: August 16, 2018, 10:32:02 pm »

I've slept since that was discussed!.


I'll send you the correct number of rivets by private message...





aughhh, don't keep your knowledge private spongie……….we are all here to learn...……….publish the number on here, then we can take your knowledge seriously.


cheers...…….after all, we learn from each other. O0 O0 :-))
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spongie

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #69 on: August 16, 2018, 11:27:04 pm »

I'm still counting them...
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SailorGreg

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #70 on: August 17, 2018, 01:47:46 pm »

I come a little late to this discussion and I don't have the years of experience that others bring to the discussion. But having built a couple of double planked hulls I would urge you to get the first layer as smooth and fair as you can before embarking on the second layer. It will make life a lot easier. You might consider gluing pieces of veneer or thin ply into the depressions if you are dubious about gluing to filler, but I suspect your adhesion trials will show you that you have no problem there. Oh, and it's a lovely hull, beautifully executed!


Greg

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #71 on: August 18, 2018, 10:28:27 am »

I'm going to ask what might be a real stupid question here!

If you have got the shape required after the first layer, why do you need a second layer? Once filled and resin and mat applied wouldn't that be ready for painting?

I fully understand why multi layers are required in full sized boats as the hull skin is thin relative to the size of the boat but with a model even one layer it is relatively thick and strong and won't be subjected to the forces that a full sized boat is due to flexing and expansion/contraction.

I ask because I've been thinking about how you clamp the second layer as well and the additional work of applying the second layer? Pins or bigger clamps I suppose?

Can the second layer be thinner to make following the curves easier?
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Rottweiler

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #72 on: August 18, 2018, 02:28:52 pm »

Hi Christ,
To answer some of your query,with a model built in this way,personally I would never resin or fibreglass over it,there is no need? I would preferably use pins rather than clamps,as pins are far easier to use,and to get into odd angles,that clamps are unable to be placed..As you can see,this excellent build is using strips of timber rather than larger pieces as I suspect you may use on your model.When last I used this method,I used 1/16" spruce,which was cut into 1" wide strips.My method of dampening them as you put it,was to get an old electric kettle,and insert a couple of strips down the spout,and boil the kettle for less than a minute.This of course is the old fashioned way of steaming,enabling the strips to be bent and curved and shaped round the corners with ease,and without fear of splitting.As the strips dried out,in with,they would shrink a little,and thus form a tighter fit.
My battleship of 6' 6" long is immensely strong,being built this way,and it has to be with a full size car battery and over 20lbs of lead for ballast!
Hope this helps
Mick F
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Charlie

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #73 on: August 20, 2018, 10:08:44 am »

Hi Chris,


I'm applying 2 layers of diagonal planking just because that's how the full size boats were made, and i want to replicate that method. However it would certainly be possible to do what you suggest and apply resin and cloth over a single layer, and get a strong hull. It's just my choice not to do that.


The results from my glue tests were quite interesting. The Evostik had zero adhesion; the Titebond had moderate adhesion, the Gorilla Glue performed the best, as i couldn't remove the test piece. The Aliphatic test piece shows good adhesion. It would be tempting to use the Gorilla Glue for the second layer of planking based on this result, but it is not 100% waterproof, so i will stick with the Aliphatic.


Charlie

Neil

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #74 on: August 20, 2018, 05:16:41 pm »


good market research there, Charlie...……..very impressive..


I'm actually amazed with the performance of the Gorilla glue, because I have used 4 of their products including their gaffer tape [ which was the worst duct tap I have ever used with absolute zero sticking power] and not one of their products that I used came up to their advertising claims.


but the aliphatic is a very good choice.
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