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Author Topic: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"  (Read 29587 times)

ChrisF

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #75 on: August 20, 2018, 09:32:06 pm »

Thanks Mick and Charlie - I can't replicate the method that Fairey used as it was 7 layers of Agba, each 2.5mm thick, hot moulded in an autoclave!

I'm using diagonal planking just because of the curves of the hull. If having fixed one layer I'm happy with the shape achieved I'll leave it there and apply resin and mat.

Interesting tests on the various glues. Looks like that with the Aliphatic it was the filler that failed rather than the glue. I use nothing else.

Chris
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Building Fairey Marine boats: River Cruiser 23 prototype, Huntress 23 Long Cabin with stern-drive, Huntsman 28, Huntsman 31 and Swordsman 33 and two more to come! All scratch built and to a scale of 1:12

Arrow5

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #76 on: August 20, 2018, 10:23:11 pm »

I see that you used Titebond "Original".  They are up to Titebond III now, I wonder if there any improvement in sticking power or any other qualities.   Maybe just marketing hype.
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derekwarner

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #77 on: August 20, 2018, 11:39:35 pm »

From a little experience and reading the American Standards testing procedures, there appears not to be any increase in adhesive quality, however the degree of water resistance is markedly increased...

Being Americans, they do state & print on the Titebond III bottle that it is Waterproof O0...however what they really mean that it is very, very, very, very resistant to water unsticking the pieces of wood. {-).

However they do not state nor even make the slightest suggestion that it is suitable for adhering wood to plastic body filler.....
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Derek Warner

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Charlie

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #78 on: August 27, 2018, 10:35:08 pm »

Didn't need to use much filler in the end. Second layer of Planking is now underway.

Charlie

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #79 on: August 29, 2018, 11:32:40 am »

I'm quite surprised by how much the glue drying time is affected by the weather. During the recent heatwave, i could remove the clamps after a mere 3 hours, and the glue would be set solid. But now that the temperature has dropped to around 12 degrees, even after 11 hours drying time overnight, the glue still wasn't set.

derekwarner

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #80 on: August 30, 2018, 12:20:15 am »

Well Charlie.......I am sure the temperature variance will have an effect on the drying time, but now with the second diagonal planked layer, you are also now bonding to a partially filled plastic substrate

So even the lightest coating of Finishing Grade Silk Body Filler [polyester] in the porosity of the first layer of planking timber will greatly effect the bonding process O0

Derek
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Derek Warner

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RST

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #81 on: August 30, 2018, 01:44:35 am »

I would say having tested various adhesives in industry over a fw RnD projects over the years, temperature and humidity hava a huge effect on curing times.  DIY / modelling adhesives are usually more easy to work with though.  A 10deg swing on temp on most adhesives I can think of would probably have a significant effect on curing times regardless (same with paints).  Carry on anyway, looks like you're doing nothing wrong. My biggest problem always seems to be pulling the pins out afterwards -which always seem to try to be a permanent fixture when the adhesive dries LoL.
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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #82 on: August 30, 2018, 01:52:53 am »

...NB I just noticed a bottle of Deluxe glue in the background of your pic.  I know it is a popular brand, but on the subject of curing -and end strength, I have personally found anything by Delux vastly variable from top to bottom of bottles, and one bottle to the next which might explain things.  I tend to avoid Deluxe adhesives now -I found their cyanyo particularly inconsistent on curing and can be very weak / brittle also.
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Martin (Admin)

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #83 on: August 30, 2018, 12:57:17 pm »


The results from my glue tests were quite interesting. The Evostik had zero adhesion; the Titebond had moderate adhesion, the Gorilla Glue performed the best, as i couldn't remove the test piece. The Aliphatic test piece shows good adhesion. It would be tempting to use the Gorilla Glue for the second layer of planking based on this result, but it is not 100% waterproof, so i will stick with the Aliphatic.


Hi Charlie,
Lovin' the build.

Just catching up.... you say that 'Gorilla Glue is not 100% waterproof,' Delux say, "Also sets at low temperatures and is water resistant making it ideal for model boats."

.... just wondering.....   :-)
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Charlie

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #84 on: August 31, 2018, 01:58:59 pm »


Hi Martin,
Glad you like the build. I'm certainly enjoying doing it.
The glue waterproof info I have taken directly off the labels of the bottles in my possession. The label of the Gorilla Wood Glue states "Not recommended for structural or load bearing applications nor for continuous submersion or below waterline use". I interpreted this as meaning not fully waterproof, therefore not suitable for a boat. The label on the Aliphatic states "Waterproof when dry". I tested this out by glueing 2 pieces of Limewood together, and then submerging them in water when the glue was fully set. After a week the glue was still set solid, which convinced me to use it for my build.
Latest pics below.
Charlie

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #85 on: August 31, 2018, 02:17:38 pm »

Interesting discussion on the qualities of various glues.  To be honest, the amount of time our models spend in the water, any of the above glues would probably do fine.  The warnings and qualifications on the labels are aimed at full scale use, where hulls may well be kept afloat for months at a time and where loads might be measured in tons not ounces.  Several of my boats rely heavily on superglue to keep them in one piece.  I doubt any full size boatbuilder would accept that as a suitable adhesive for his work.  Horses for courses...  :-)
Greg

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #86 on: August 31, 2018, 02:18:41 pm »

Interesting discussion on the qualities of various glues.  To be honest, the amount of time our models spend in the water, any of the above glues would probably do fine.  The warnings and qualifications on the labels are aimed at full scale use, where hulls may well be kept afloat for months at a time and where loads might be measured in tons not ounces.  Several of my boats rely heavily on superglue to keep them in one piece.  I doubt any full size boatbuilder would accept that as a suitable adhesive for his work.  Horses for courses...  :-) 

Greg
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Perkasaman2

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #87 on: August 31, 2018, 02:39:16 pm »

It's important to remember that 'water resistant' does not mean water proof.
It might be worth using an inexpensive fan heater in your workshop to accelerate glue setting time. Draper sell a cheap heater which is also thermostatic. It's a good idea to ensure ventilation in case of fumes where appropriate. I realise that your hull is almost fully planked and that the above may be a bit late. I am enjoying your excellent build log. Lovely work.
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Charlie

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #88 on: September 02, 2018, 09:33:03 pm »

The Starboard side second layer of planking is now finished, except for the Prop Tunnel which I will do last. Now onto the Port side.

Neil

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #89 on: September 02, 2018, 10:28:26 pm »

looks magnificently strong, and superb finish Charlie.  :-))
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Charlie

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #90 on: September 04, 2018, 09:28:00 am »

Managed to get an hour in the workshop before work this morning, and get a few more Strakes fitted. Back to the subject of glue; i decided to test just how effective the Gorilla Glue is, to see if it is Water Resistant or Waterproof. I glued two pieces of Limewood together and last night left them in a jar of water to soak. This morning the pieces are still firmly attached to each other, but the glue is just starting to soften ever so slightly. So the Gorilla Glue is definitely not fully waterproof, so i consider that i made the correct decision not to use it in my build.

Charlie

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #91 on: September 06, 2018, 10:05:14 am »

Just 3 Strakes left to fit, then this side will be finished. Then on to the tricky tunnels....
I just counted up the total number of Strakes fitted so far, and there are 453 :o

Neil

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #92 on: September 06, 2018, 06:30:59 pm »


That is a lovely looking hull, Charlie...….can't wait to see that all sanded up...…


a lovely shape to it....perfection.
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Charlie

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #93 on: September 07, 2018, 11:52:42 am »

You are right Neil, i always used to admire the shape of the hull when she was recovered up the beach after a launch. Those smooth curves and lines really make for a thing of beauty. I always thought dragging a 12 ton wooden hull over a shingle beach couldn't be any good for her, but that double / triple diagonal construction was obviously tough enough to deal with it.

Charlie

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #94 on: September 10, 2018, 09:26:36 am »

Today i detached the hull from the building board for the first time. I reckon it looks pretty good on the inside, neater than i imagined it would be. I expected lots of glue drips everywhere, but no! Pretty pleased with that. I had started to sand down the hull planking, but before i get too far with that, i want to mark out the position of the additional layer of planking that partially covers the underside. I believe this extra layer was applied to a few of the Rother Class, to enable them to cope with the rigours of Beach launching. I don't think the Rothers that were carriage launched had this additional layer. To enable accurate marking i first need to trim the edge of the hull down to deck level.

Neil

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #95 on: September 10, 2018, 11:56:00 am »

WOW!, WOWW!!, WOWWWWW!!!!!  :-)) :-)) :-)) O0 O0 O0 O0
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Charlie

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #96 on: September 12, 2018, 09:27:57 am »

I used my Dremel with a cutting disc, to roughly trim the hull down to a few mm above deck level. Now i can proceed with marking out, and then applying the 3rd layer of Planks to the underside.

Charlie

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #97 on: September 17, 2018, 10:20:55 pm »

So many pins! Current task is to apply the second layer of Lime Planks to the Tunnels. Some careful heating and bending is required here in order not to snap the planks!

derekwarner

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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #98 on: September 17, 2018, 11:06:59 pm »

Question....... :o what were the internal surfaces of the hull finished with on the original vessels?

Seems a terrible shame  to use a paint & hide the  :kiss: internal planking

Derek
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Re: Rother Class Lifeboat "RNLB Duke of Kent"
« Reply #99 on: September 18, 2018, 06:26:02 am »

Painted - white or grey usually.


Don’t forget that the interior would have been stuffed full of air cases (or for the Rother, polystyrene blocks), so you couldn’t see the inner surface anyway.


Lance
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