Topic: Billing boats Will Everard help please (Read 7365 times)

timpars · « **on:** July 09, 2018, 10:44:48 pm »

I have just been given this kit as a gift. It is my first foray into wooden boats (I'm coming from plastic kits).

To begin with it's ok but after installing the frames into the keel and fitting the deck, the next instruction is 'Sand the frames to fit theshape of the hull'. What shape? No doubt obvious, but not to me.

Help please

andrewh · « **Reply #1 on:** July 10, 2018, 03:13:47 am »

Hi, Timpars

the next instruction is 'Sand the frames to fit the shape of the hull'. What shape? No doubt obvious, but not to me.

I can understand this. It is trying to say sand the edges of some of the frames so that they allow the planking (or sides) to fit in a natural curve. I have done a swift sketch to try and explain what is meant.

A Thames barge is basically a shoe box shape with more-or-less pointy ends, so the middle frames need no attention. But where the bow and stern start tapering, then the frames need to be sanded to allow the planking to lie against the whole width of the frame.

(on a ship with more shape - say, HMS Victory - most of the frames apart from the midships one have to be tapered so that all the planking lies snugly)

How do you do it? well pin a thin plank in position along the middle frames - pull it in at the bow and stern (fix with tape or rubber band) and see, and mark the shape it is trying to be. sand frames as marked till the plank lies sweetly.

simples!
Are you building her as a display model or for sailing?
Hope this helps a bit
andrew

timpars · « **Reply #2 on:** July 10, 2018, 08:58:17 am »

Andrew

Thanks, this is just what I needed. I rdhad a feeling that this was the case but didn't want to start sanding until I knew

Perhaps someone should write a better set of instructions

This gives me the courage to proceed.

Thanks again

Tim.

tigertiger · « **Reply #3 on:** July 10, 2018, 09:28:02 am »

The other thing to think about before you start attaching any planks, is how they will be attached to the stem of the boat.
Looking at the model you will need to cut a rabbet into the stem to hold the ends of the planks. Do this first before you start fairing (cutting) the ends of your frames. As it will affect the angles.
You may also need to think about pre-bending the planks at the bow end. It sounds more complicated than it is. Have a look at the woodcare section on here http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/board,109.0.html and look for planking and bending threads.

Also, have a look in the Master class section on the main board of Mayhem

barriew · « **Reply #4 on:** July 10, 2018, 05:30:28 pm »

Quote from: timpars on July 10, 2018, 08:58:17 am

Perhaps someone should write a better set of instructions

Tim.

Billings "instructions" are notoriously poor. They are sketchy at best and tend to vanish when things get tricky. You may not have noticed yet, but there is no help when it comes to rigging Will Everard

Barrie

timpars · « **Reply #5 on:** July 10, 2018, 06:04:03 pm »

I think that it will be some time before I get to rigging

. Maybe I'll be back for more help then

andrewh · « **Reply #6 on:** July 13, 2018, 03:00:52 pm »

Hi, Tim

Glad you can see the next step or two. Plenty of help and advice available from the assembled mayhemmers

I forgot to say in my earlier post - have a search for "Will Everard build logs" and you will find several illustrated build logs - including, I think one on Mayhem.

From these I see that your kit has the two halves of the hull made separately and glued together later. If you are going to make it a sailing model there is a bit of thinking to do before going too far. If you are making a static model - no problem.

Not much rigging to a Thames barge, but a new language to learn. Many of the parts of a TSB have unique and splendid names, as you will find.

Almost forgot - the magic word is AMBO (Association of Model Barge Owners) They are very helpful, but at present I am not sure how to get in touch with them - the website seems to be under construction.

regards,
andrew

timpars · « **Reply #7 on:** July 13, 2018, 07:42:03 pm »

Thanks Andrew, it's nice to know that out there in the modelling universe there is a wealth of advice and help to be had.

My model will be static so no additional worries there

Regards Tim.

timpars · « **Reply #8 on:** July 22, 2018, 06:23:11 pm »

Does anyone have a 'map' of the plastic parts sprue@ I know some will be obvious but I fear not all

Thanks
Tim.

barriew · « **Reply #9 on:** July 22, 2018, 06:48:12 pm »

Yes - I do. I will scan and post tomorrow if that is OK.

Barrie

timpars · « **Reply #10 on:** July 22, 2018, 07:15:41 pm »

Tomorrow is fine, thanks very much.

barriew · « **Reply #11 on:** July 23, 2018, 07:01:29 am »

Tim,

I can also email the scan if you prefer - PM me your email address.

Barrie

timpars · « **Reply #12 on:** August 01, 2018, 07:08:49 pm »

I'm having a bit of trouble identifing a couple of parts.
The book shows them as 1 of 1.8x4.450mm part number 22 and calls them formed parts. I can't see anything in the box that's 'formed' so do I have to make it up and if so does anyone have more dimensions.
Sorry to be 'ignorant' but this is all new to me

Tim.

barriew · « **Reply #13 on:** August 02, 2018, 06:49:13 am »

Tim
They are the pieces that sit on the rails from the stem. I think they are called breakwaters.
Cut the piece of 1.8 mm x 4 mm wood in two and bend to fit, then shape the ends,
They are not formed - at least in my kit.
Hope this helps.
Barrie

timpars · « **Reply #14 on:** August 03, 2018, 09:33:26 am »

Thanks Barrie, now I uncerstand. Takes me back to when I used to work with typewriters many many years ago. The instruction in the manual would say 'form gently' meaning BEND

Another query. I'm trying to isolate part number F491 or strangely B2-68. It fits on top of the assebly of 44A and B. Cornwall model boats don't list it and neither as far as I can see do Billing themselves. Can anyone give me a clue?
Thanks in advance.

barriew · « **Reply #15 on:** August 03, 2018, 10:50:30 am »

Tim

B2-68 is described as a vent. It appears to be a brass fitting, but what it looks like I am not sure. My kit had a sheet of pictures of these fittings, but the quality is such that after many copies on a copier with poor resolution, you cant actually tell what shape most of them are!!! I have a brass piece that is about 4 mm long with a domed top. I haven't found anywhere this should definitely go and was intending to see if it fits on the skylight

44 in my kit was a shaped piece of wood onto which fits the two plastic pieces marked O on the sprue photo I sent you.

Barrie

timpars · « **Reply #16 on:** August 03, 2018, 11:45:51 am »

Thanks again Barrie
I think I figured that one out. I think you are correct about the section that you describe.
In my kit 44 consists of 5 laser cut sections that have to be glued together to then accept the two plastic parts.
Another part I'm struggling with is F694/1 with mounts on the assembled 44 etc. Again no mention in the book and the only thing close is the 2mm by 100 brass rod which I believe is part F410-10 but I haven't discovered where that is supposed to go yet.

Tim.

barriew · « **Reply #17 on:** August 03, 2018, 11:53:59 am »

Tim
No F694/1 in my list. F694/2 is a length of Aluminium wire that is bent over F44. I haven't got as far as fittings yet - I am still painting the hull etc before mounting the cabins etc.
Barrie

timpars · « **Reply #18 on:** August 03, 2018, 02:41:19 pm »

Your kit is clearly a bit different to mine.

As a newbie to wood modelling I'm waiting on a few things to be delivered so I'm filling in time making some of the extras. The bent piece over 44 in mine is brass wire. The piece I want identify sticks up from 44 with a vent on top

Thanks again for help anyway, nice pics by the way.

barriew · « **Reply #19 on:** August 03, 2018, 07:26:07 pm »

Tim

I'll check tomorrow - the computer is not in the workshop. I do have the parts list her as I have been trying to identify and sort all the fittings.

Barrie

barriew · « **Reply #20 on:** August 04, 2018, 09:04:57 am »

Tim,

Does this diagram help? Interestingly the drawing shows F694/1 and the parts list has F694/2 which is aluminium wire. F39 shown on the drawing is brass wire.

Barrie

andrewh · « **Reply #21 on:** August 04, 2018, 09:10:26 am »

Hi, intrepid barge-builders

Tim, some of the questions seem to suggest that you do not have the "plans" for this boat issued by Billings

They are heavily larded with copyright notices, so I will not copy and paste, but they are available here
http://billingboats-direct.com/estore/product_info.php/billing-boats-b601-will-everard-sailing-barge-model-boat-fittings-p-601
and for all their failings they do at least have assembly pictures with part numbers

F694/1 is the stove chimney - it has a top piece B2/16 (??) and is prolly a length of wire or tube with a couple of bend

B2/68 is some sort of mushroom vent and fits next to the chimney pipe (page 11 of the instructions)

Incidentally, you are not there yet, but the rigging instructions contain one glaring error which would cause you to scratch your head and leap to the forum. On page 14 the spar labelled Bowsprit is in fact the Sprit (pronounced spreet) that holds up the top outer end of the sail. This particular barge does not have a bowsprit, but like all Thames barges it is a Spritsail barge

Going back to your original query about the pieces called 22. The parts list says they are 1.8 x 5 obechi wood and they are shown on page 7 of the instructions. They are sort of handrails (footrails?) and fitted at bow and stern on top of the planked sides, so they will need a bit of bending (forming). cut to size, soak in boiling water and gently wrap round something curved. Hold in place till dry with rubber bands, PVC tape or anything else that will hold it in place
Viola! Formed handrails
Hope this helps
andrew

timpars · « **Reply #22 on:** August 04, 2018, 09:40:04 am »

Andrew
Many thanks for all the useful info.
I do have the plans, that is the building instructions as issued by Billings. However therein lies the problem (or the problems).
Part F694/1 is not mentioned in the parts list and there is no piece in the kit that looks like that. The only piece that I have that could be made into that (and Billings seem to like you to do a lot of 'making') is a piece of brass rod 2mm by 100mm listed as F410-10. I have yet to find where that might be used so may make that into F694/1. If I find later on that I need this I should be able to get some from my local model shop. There seem to be several instances where this sort of ambiguity arises which does make working on the model more difficult. Also the dual marking using B numbers that (sometimes) match up to F numbers, what's that all about?
As for the handrails, I was overthinking that and just trying to sort out the different sized pieces of timber. Thanks for that anyway.
The rigging tip is also very useful I will make a note in my instructions to that effect because by the time I get to that stage I will surely have forgotten.
There seem to have been several different versions of this kit over the years (?) which also complicates talking to those who have already built it.
However all the help that I am getting is very gratefully received and I am heartily glad to found the forum.

Tim.

timpars · « **Reply #23 on:** August 04, 2018, 10:00:49 am »

AndrewNow I'm really puzzled.Folowing up your point about the bowsprit being the sprit I wanted to make sure i understood the implications. Now you will have to bear with my current lack of nautical knowledge but on inspecting the full size plan of the boat, part number 56 (the Bowsprit) is shown as projecting from the bow as i would expect a bowsprit to do, rather than supporting the top edge of the mainsail. Am I going completely mad?
Tim.

barriew · « **Reply #24 on:** August 04, 2018, 12:53:10 pm »

Tim,

I would agree that Will has a bowsprit!!
I have emailed some photos of the skylight as built by me - not saying this is correct mind you

My version of the kit has absolutely NO rigging instructions! I will have to check the online version again to see if that does.

Barrie

MODS - perhaps this thread should be moved to another section?

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Author Topic: Billing boats Will Everard help please (Read 7365 times)