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Author Topic: Graupner Seabex One  (Read 16695 times)

nmbrook

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Graupner Seabex One
« on: July 17, 2018, 08:42:20 am »

Hi All
I am returning to modelling proper after probably about a 3 year break due to work demands.Basically I have actually got a reasonable amount of freetime back.I have a log on my Fairmount Alpine,but that is staying on the shelf for now as I address a much more long standing mothballed project.
I bought the Seabex kit and drives etc as the last available one in the country not long after discontinuation by Graupner.Shortly followed by the F14 Navy gear with double twin sticks,two expansion models with decoders and a boatload of relay and polarity reversing models.Needless to say the bill was quite substantial for everything.
I got part way through the build and was less than impressed by the quality/design of the kit.The extensive vac formings lacked detail and crispness and numerous areas of the model was quite simplistic.
The model sat in storage until a couple of years ago when I took a fresh look.I hadn't had a lot of freetime,but when I wasn't planning the way forward,I have managed to produce a mould using the reworked hull of the kit and a new hull using Epoxy and woven cloth.I have also looked at the Marx schottles and replaced the plain bearings with stainless ballraces.I have removed the notoriously noisy gear reduction and converted to a tooth belt system.The Graupner 600 BB turbo motors I bought with the kit are to be replaced with brushless items I have bought for the project.These weigh a fraction of the BBs,factoring the saved weight can be used elsewhere.
So I start the log,not quite from the beginning,but to be honest my posts would have been far too sporadic over the last 2 years to warrant a log.
I will start by adding pics of where I am at now at the weekend and take it from there.


Kind Regards


Nigel
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Tafelspitz

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2018, 10:18:32 am »

Hey Nigel,


I once built a Seabex 1 back in the late 80s when I was about 17, so I will follow your blog with interest to get a blast from the past  :-)


Dom
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nmbrook

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2018, 04:39:28 pm »

Hi Dom


Any pictures,or is your build just confined to memory?.I could probably start a retro section.I have the rereleased Krick Romarin Happy Hunter and just recently obtained an unbuilt Hegi Oceanic {-) .
To be honest,the only kit parts left on Seabex will probably be the lifeboats,fire monitors and a few moulded fittings,the rest is scratch.As you will see in the pics,the superstructure is 75% built from 1/32nd plywood,all windows cut out on my Proxxon miller with enlarged table.Even the diecutting on the original plastic parts was very poor and all over the place for the windows.
I have developed a fully articulated motorised 1/75 knuckle boom crane based on a 150T Hydramarine original.This is similar to the one on Seaway Osprey,the modernised version of Seabex's sister ship Seacom.This is not true to the original,but I feel will create much more of an impact in operation then that of the original crane.I have given up the notion of trying to make an exact replica.I have just about every photo of Seabex from the net and none of them are clear when enlarged as they are from the predigital age.
I could of stretched and widened the hull when producing the master to make what is now the Kreuz Installer,the latest incarnation of Seabex,but to me the current version just looks like a cobbled together afterthought,which it actually is in a way.


Kind Regards


Nigel
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timgarrod

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2018, 05:54:34 pm »

looking forward to seeing the photos,

This is one boat i've alway want to build.
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Tafelspitz

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2018, 08:25:59 pm »

Any pictures,or is your build just confined to memory?


Unfortunately I don't have any pictures, and she's long gone. Only some faint and fond memories left. After she was left and forgotten in the garage for the better part of a decade, I eventually gave her away to some dude who intended to give her a fixer upper. I have no idea what happened to her.
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cos918

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2018, 10:52:53 pm »

Hi Nigelfunny you found the kit a pile of crap. I have her too and thats what I thought. Mine sits on a shelf only part started . Look foward to seeing your photos. There is a guy on her who did one goes by the name oldiron or some thing like that. He did some seroius deck hatch mods which improve acess a lot .
If your on Facebook check out Haller 3d, he is doing some serious stuff.
https://www.facebook.com/261884960874521/photos/pcb.525506157845732/525506117845736/?type=3&theater
John
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nmbrook

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2018, 09:09:17 am »

John
Thanks for the link,check out www.haller3D,com.With deep pockets you can play a game of 'pimp' my Seabex and get carried away.Fully functioning Cranes,davits and diving bell tower all available to order :o .


I think the kit design is let down by Graupner's attempt at making it a 'quick build kit'.Naff vacformings let it down.These are ok for stuff that is rounded on the original like on a megayacht but not something that was fabricated from steel sheet in real life and has square corners.It just adds a toy like appearance.


The rereleased Happy Hunter is completely different.Krick kept Robbe's half decent vac formed hull and junked the dodgy diestamped sheet abs parts in favour of fully lasercut sheets.The quality of these is fabulous.


Kind Regards


Nigel
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nmbrook

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2018, 04:33:29 pm »

I work nights Monday to Thursday which is why I said I would sort some pics at the weekend.However I have got a bit of time before work so I would take and post some easy ones.I will leave the hull to the weekend as I will get better results if I take it outside.


I have been working on the superstructure in tandem with fitting the hull out as it is a good fill in while waiting for various bits of hardware to arrive.I am trying to plan the hull fitting out as much as possible to keep things tidy and shipshape.I am very much inspired by the work of Leon Boers and his fellow members of the OSV society and their incredibly tidy running gear installations.


The superstructure is 1/32nd birch ply and work in progress.I chose ply for several reasons.It is more rigid than plastic of the same thickness,I figured it would be more stable outside on very hot days as the complete unit is quite a large assembly and finally I could use the mill to cut the windows without plastic melting to the cutter.I could mill windows if I was using a cnc machine because the feed rate could be set high to avoid melting but that is beyond my budget.


The ply is treated with epoxy finishing resin during construction and 5mm square sapele has been used for reinforcement a this is a stiff timber.


Kind Regards


Nigel
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nmbrook

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2018, 07:31:14 pm »

I have managed to get the hull out into the sunshine to take pics.Doubt I will photograph the mould,this is a heavy 3 piece affair which now resides in the loft.


The hull is laminated with epoxy and woven glass backed with chopped strand mat,it is obviously heavier than the vac formed kit part,but far stronger.
The motor and drive mounts are in at the stern and the drivetrain was trial assembled.The forward thruster support bulkheads are work in progress.The front schottles will have a servo each on a y lead,I don't like the overcomplicated kit design for this.The front sub deck isn't glued in place yet.


Kind Regards


Nigel
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Tafelspitz

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2018, 08:22:50 pm »

Ah, the memories  :-)
Good idea with your improvements. I remember the front schottles never turning full angle with the weird kit construction.


Dom
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nmbrook

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2018, 02:57:48 pm »

Thanks Dom


Updates are real time now.Saving pics of the crane until I resume work on that part ok2 I have modified the second pair of Schottles(other 2 were done a good few months back).These have been kicking about in the garage for a few years and needed a good clean after stripping down.They have never actually been in the water.The input shaft bearing supports were cut off and flats filled to take the grubscrews of the timing pulleys.The sintered bearings were replaced with stainless ballraces the same size.Only difference is the ballrace flange is thinner than that of the sintered bush.This necessitated the fitting of a stainless thrust washer at the base of the shaft to ensure the gear meshes properly with that in the prop unit.The units were regreased during reassembly.


Regards


Nigel
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nmbrook

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2018, 05:28:48 pm »

I have completed the front drive installation.All ply has had 2 coats of finishing resin.The hardware has all been mocked up.The wires on the Mtronics esc's have been shortened and the gold plated female connectors supplied with the Leopard motors soldered on.Everything has been stripped out again to be finally assembled further in to the build after the internal fabric is completed.I propose to spray the internals white before final fit out as well.


Regards


Nigel
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nmbrook

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2018, 02:41:19 pm »

I have been beavering away inside the hull.I have come to the conclusion that both the developement of the internal structure and the integration of the many working functions together with how these tie in with the F14 expansion modules is probably more work than the topsides.
Many things have taken place that don't show in any pics.Firstly the model was rigged up and placed in the test tank after the main battery tray was fitted in front of the moonpool.The model was very light at the stern.This allows me to run a fourth lead acid battery in the stern.This gives me a total of 2 12v lead acid batteries and 2 6v batteries.Each battery will be connected to it's own action electronics distribution board with digital voltage display so charge status can be monitored.The mounts for these boards and voltage displays are fitted and can be seen in the pics.
I have started and tested a simple circuit board for the endpoint control of crane movements.This uses microswitches and Schottky diodes.The Graupner wiring diagram used both the normally open and closed terminals,my system just uses the normally closed contacts.
The bowden outer fitted is for the rope that will raise and lower the diving bell.I gave up coming up with a design whereas the winch for this would be close to the moonpool,just too much to cram in the rear of the boat.
You will notice the mounts under the rear battery tray.These take two high torque servos to operate the working moonpool doors that are under construction.I have bought a y lead that reverses one of the servos allowing these doors to open and close in tandem.
The moonpool is becoming a project on it's own.The kit version does suffer from looking bland very much like the inside of a heating oil tank.The ribbing fitted will take an outer skin that is perforated with various holes to provide the baffling effect.I have fitted pockets to take dummy hydraulic rams for the moonpool doors.All these details while most probably fictitious on the original have been researched on the websites of companies that currently fabricate the real ones. Comes in handy the web.Just a shame Seabex was built before the advent of the internet otherwise there would be many more pics of her about.Yes I know there are a few of her in more modern guises but both her and her sister have both been chopped about several times.
The anchor pockets are also in.These will both work independently.
One point for anyone using an expanded F14 with futaba's 2.4 GHZ module.I spent ages last weekend testing the crane rotation circuit coupled up to the radio gear.I was baffled why it wouldn't work.The k no's on the decoder pins do not marry up on 2.4ghz.I moved the connector to a different pin and hey presto it worked.
The wire loops bonded in are to take cable ties.Trying to keep this tidy as I envisage many,many meters of cabling in this model
As if this project wasn't enough,I have ordered the xbow Oceanic Vega hull from Mobile Marine Models %) Brian showed me this at Doncaster show last year,it is awesome.It has taken me 18 months to source the Ulstein GA drawings.Now I have them,I feel I have enough info to build this as MMM don't supply any drawings.
Anyway a few pics,and yes I am now going to brush paint the insides.Spraying would be virtually impossible :o


Kind Regards


Nigel
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cos918

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2018, 04:48:43 pm »

Hello Nigel
looking via nice. Nice to see you doing your own thing with her .
I too have unstarted one that one day i hope to start once I have finished off current builds .
john
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derekwarner

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2018, 12:25:40 am »

Nigel......very tidy internal ply construction indeed :-))


Have you had trailed the motors driving the pod elements?........do the motor mounting plates resonate under load?


Due to the orientation of the images, it was difficult to draw.....I am not suggesting reinforcement supports looking like this....simply located somewhere along the areas.......and possibly a second plate at 90 degrees


Derek
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nmbrook

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2018, 12:41:45 am »


Thank you John and Derek.One step ahead of you Derek,The ply pieces are waiting for the finishing resin to dry and being bonded in tomorrow ok2 The drives haven't been run and won't be until the internals are together and the hull painted.Unclipping the front drive extensions appears to be a nightmare once fitted so trying to avoid it as much as possible.The location of the strengthening plates is at the other side of the motor to your pic making it more central to the mounting plate but will achieve the same goal.I hadn't thought about resonance but was concerned that the belt tension will want to pull the mount upwards away from the horizontal risking premature belt wear.


Kind Regards


Nigel
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nmbrook

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2018, 02:55:46 am »


After a coat of paint,I have started "phase one" of the hardware and electronics.I plan on installing all the internals before the decks are fitted but all serviceable items will still be accessible through  the hatches.The two crossmembers are for a Perspex shelf to take the receiver and further electronic goodies including one of the F14 decoders.The Robbe relay switches are for the twin 12V pumps for the fire monitors on the stern goal post.The front drives have been tested and everything works spot on albeit the brushless motors sounding a little like a small get engine :} .This is my first foray into brushless and these fairly small units are real powerhouses.The hitec robot servo towards the bow will have a drum for the diving bell cable.


Regards


Nigel
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derekwarner

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2018, 03:33:56 am »

Again....all very tidy & ship like to see white painted machinery spaces in new construction


We see you are using Standard Futaba S3010 servos and connected with a ??10-32# Dubro style Ball Crank connectors to the Schottele drives


So with the 32 TPI, dual Ball Cranks, are you able to get a totally neutral Zero centered trim Schottele pod when the Tx stick is self centered?...or do you use some form of pulse to get the pod to a totally neutral setting?


Derek 
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nmbrook

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2018, 04:10:20 am »



Thank you Derek and what an excellent question.Because the servos are on a y lead the answer is 'near enough' :} .The two servos neutral are slightly different,I have used adjustment in the pushrods and the trim on the transmitter to get it as close as I can.The real test is when the model hits the wet stuff.Personally I prefer the reliability of this set up compared to the overcomplicated convoluted linkage layout Graupner suggest.I am aiming to try and keep this model minimal maintenance and hopefully as long lasting as possible.I feel the flimsy suggested layout of bellcranks to run off a single servo will wear out a lot quicker than my set up.The stern thruster set up is much more straight forward so doesn't present any such issues when run from a single servo.


The rudder stick isn't self centering as it is a second twin stick F14 unit in the right hand well rotated 90 degrees.That in itself does add a little guesswork to what is true straight ahead but hopefully makes it less likely for me to have a 'brainfreeze' when steering the model {-)

Balancing the speedcontrollers to give equal neutrals was much more fun and games %) Again there is a bit of compromise with one motor starting slightly after the other,but this is at very.very low revs.Fortunately the Mtronics units have a wide neutral 'window' so I have both drives at stop when the stick is neutral.


Regards


Nigel
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derekwarner

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2018, 05:20:13 am »


Sorry.... wrong equipment <*< ...I was thinking the Action P94 was OK with brushless motors.... :embarrassed:
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nmbrook

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2018, 02:01:28 pm »


Work continues on Seabex.I have completed the moonpool doors and these have been put aside while the filler primer hardens off.I will put pics up of these assemblies at a later date after sanding and topcoat.Order of painting in this moonpool area is causing some headscratching.When fully assembled the baffled insides are going to be a nightmare to get proper access to spray,so things are going to have to be done in stages.Painting the louvred doors off the model before fitting them in situ removes one such headache.
  The aft deck is fitted in place as this doesn't reduce access for wiring,it pretty much just covers the structure that is already there.The deck was laid up by myself using epoxy resin and woven cloth.This gave it enough stiffness to negate the need for ribs underneath where the battery compartment is.Space is limited above the tops of the batteries so this was a bonus.I did have to cut to tempory hatches in the deck either side of the moonpool to allow fitment of the pins that hold the dummy rams in situ for the moonpool doors.The deck needs to be on to paint the moonpool inner lining,but the moonpool needs painting before the rams go in.Yeah you get the idea %)
  The Perspex cylinder is the base for the fully working knuckle boom crane.As I said before,this is artistic licence as I feel the original design is a little boring in operation.I have fitted bearings top and bottom to give smooth rotation.I don't own a lathe and dropped lucky with standard Perspex tube sizes and bearing diameters to avoid any machining.The large inside diameter allows another Perspex tube to slide in to house the motor which operates a worm drive to elevate the main section of boom.This section has been built as far as basic structure and animation.I am really pleased with it's operation but I will save that for a section of posts just featuring the crane.The crane construction,animation and details is a build all on it's own and will be a bit chunk of the hours involved in this model.
  Neodium magnets have been fitted to attach the removable rear deck.There will be a silicon sealed Perspex sub deck below this to prevent water ingress.There should be no need to remove this during operation or to charge the batteries.Perspex 'chimneys' will not only provide clearance for the aft drive motors but some venting for when the aft battery is charging.These chimneys will be hidden by some rather nice 'o' scale Maersk containers I have acquired that will be fixed to the removeable deck.


Regards


Nigel
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nmbrook

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2018, 04:35:17 pm »


Just in case someone pulls me up on it,I meant oo scale containers {-) I have revisited my post and spotted it when it is too late to edit :embarrassed: O scale would have been just a tad large :-))


Regards


Nigel
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bgrunes

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2018, 04:40:45 pm »

Hi


Looking good, over many years I built mine. Would do a bit then lose interest. The moulding as others have said were poor.


She's sailed a few times in her life but now sits on display on a shelf with the odd outing to the club shows. Following your post with interest.


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nmbrook

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2018, 05:54:35 pm »


Thank you bgrunes,your build looks great!


I made a decision with the moonpool doors after applying some filler primer and flatting back not to topcoat them yet just fit them.There was that many accumulative dimensions involved that I had a feeling some 'tuning' might be required when installed.I was right,I had to sand the odd edge back to get them to meet perfectly when in the closed postion.


The doors started life as 1/48 scale plastruct stairs.These were ruduced in thickness and built into a frame of styrene box and finished with styrene flat.This gives the  folded steel louvres typical of the ones I have seen on the net.The louvres are orientated so water will flow across them when travelling full steam ahead .Reverse manoeuvres will be at slower speeds so I am not overly bothered about the drag involved.The combination of the doors and the baffling still to be fitted should eliminate the big wave in the moonpool that I have been warned about by some other builders of this model.


2mm Caldercraft fineline propshafts have had their outer tubes reduced in length and oilers fitted.The shafts run inside the door frame.The other end of the doors has a stainless shaft going into aluminium blocks with blind holes in.Both doors will operate simultaneously via 2 Futaba servos,one for each door using a y lead with reverse on one servo.The doors open inwards from horizontal.I have just opened them outwards for the pic to show the internal detail and the brackets that will take the rams.


Regards


Nigel

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nmbrook

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Re: Graupner Seabex One
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2018, 12:51:57 pm »


Work continues at a steady pace on the moonpool area.I have fabricated what will be the four dummy hydraulic rams that operate the moonpool doors.These are simply made from brass tube soft soldered.These aren't stressed so I feel silver soldering would be unnecessary.The pistons are aluminium tube so they can be left unpainted as the units will slide in and out when the doors are operated.Only half of these units will be visible,the rest will be hidden in the pockets by the baffled structure.


As a small distraction,I had found a SeaKing helicopter in a local modelshop.I had bought an italeri helicopter that had seats and many windows similar to the S61 originally used on the vessel but it had a drop down ramp and felt it wouldn't look right.
The Airfix one has the option of a Norwegian airforce rescue helicopter which I feel will fit in with the colour scheme.Seabex spent a lot of time in the Norwegian oil fields where commercial saturation diving was first experimented with,so it isn't unplausable that the helicopter would land on her helideck.


I opened the kit to find it had the provision to add a motor to make the rotors spin and was an optional extra.Bonus I thought,one less job to engineer,ironically Airfix's AF1004 motor is now discontinued <*<


Regards


Nigel
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