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Author Topic: Which fibreglass to use??  (Read 750 times)

supaboat

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Which fibreglass to use??
« on: September 02, 2018, 11:24:36 PM »

I'm almost at the stage where I need to think about fibreglassing the outside of my MOWE 2 boat.


I'm thinking of using either POLY-C with fibreglass cloth or ZAP.The problem is I dont know what weight cloth to use as the MOWE 2 is a small boat 495mm long.At tbhe moment I am busy with cellulose sanding sealer on the outside of the hull.


If somebody could suggest which weight to use or other/better products I would be most grateful. Thanks a lot.
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leachim

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Re: Which fibreglass to use??
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2018, 12:27:16 AM »

Hi Superboat.For the Mowe 2 that I recently built with my grandson we used Poly-C with RC-Worlds 25g lightweight glass cloth (their website shows how to use it!). This did an admirable job and with  1 layer of glass cloth and 5 - 6 coats of Poly-C lightly rubbed down between coats only took one light coat of Halfords spray filler to render the hull ready for paint with no evidence of the glass fibres showing through. It dries so quickly that 5 - 6 coats takes almost no time at all with little smell and clean up with water all done indoors with no complaints from SWMBO! You can see the results in my thread about the build https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,61440.0.htmlHope this helpsMike
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supaboat

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Re: Which fibreglass to use??
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2018, 06:51:58 AM »

Hi leachim. Thanks for your advice. I read your post  and it was brilliant. So nice to see two different generations h
aving a lot in common. Well done sir. I like the idea of using POLY-C as it can be "painted on" on the inside as well. Thanks again and take care.
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nemesis

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Re: Which fibreglass to use??
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2018, 05:15:07 PM »

Always remember that you can easily thicken up a laminate, an absolute devil to thin it down. So start thin and see how it pans out. nemesis
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supaboat

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Re: Which fibreglass to use??
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2018, 05:34:25 PM »

Thanks nemasis. Perhaps I should do 2 layers of 17g fibreglass?

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John W E

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Re: Which fibreglass to use??
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2018, 07:18:38 PM »


hi there
I have used a product on several small models - they call it Eze-Kote which is by a company called Deluxe Materials - I also used Aircraft Tissue paper as well.  This gave a good finish and its reasonably strong and quite light.   There isn't a smell to this product and you can wash the brush out that is used with plain soapy water. 


Remember what you are trying to achieve is to create a waterproof barrier, you shouldn't be looking to add strength to this plywood material - as the strength should already be there.


The other product I quite often use is an Epoxy resin called Z-Epoxy and I also use it along with a very light woven roving material which the aircraft modellers use to skin the wings with.   It is extremely light, its more like a very fine silk.   The Z-Epoxy is a 2 part mix which you are probably well aware of.  This, in my opinion, gives you a better surface for sanding and painting.   


Just my personal opinion :-)


here is a link to when I built the paddle tug and I used Z-Epoxy with woven roving material to cover it.   Sorry only pics ont link :-)


http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,57145.0.html


John

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supaboat

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Re: Which fibreglass to use??
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2018, 12:46:33 AM »

Hi John, thanks for the info and the build details.Great photos as well. Will definately keep your suggestions in mind. Thanks again, supaboat.
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RST

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Re: Which fibreglass to use??
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2018, 12:54:32 AM »

Appreciate the water clean-up of polurethane based products but I'm getting on very well with zap Z-Poxy.  It's epoxy resin, doesn't smell much if any -certainly doesn't always need multiple coats and sands very easy.  A little goes a very long way also.  I use a cheap brush or sponge and just throw away the brush after.  I tend to use something like 50-80gsm material "rovings" though.  I read lighter material was more difficult to deal with, or needed a second application as very easy to sand through.  I think I used 24gsm material a few years ago which was a bit easier to form and I ended up 2 layers to give a decent coverage
I am not a big fan of "deluxe" materials these days though.  They are suposed  to be very good but most products I try from them seem to leave me somewhat wanting.  And wanting same performance from one bottle to the next.  Also, reading up on the various PU products, you potentially need to build up 3, 4,6....8 applications to end up with something "not as resilient" than perhaps an epoxy product needing 2 coats at best?  Seems allot of work to me.  The PU products in my experience are great for other works, but not for a hard wearing model hull so far.
Rich
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supaboat

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Re: Which fibreglass to use??
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2018, 09:40:49 AM »

Thanks for that RST.

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Brian60

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Re: Which fibreglass to use??
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2018, 03:10:36 PM »

Make sure your cellulose filler is well cured and preferably over primered to seal that. Cellulose has an effect on polyester resin in that it prevents it from curing correctly - it will always remain soft and tacky. The other way around is no problem ie, cured polyester resin can be coated in cellulose materials. Cellulose thinner can be used to clean brushes etc after use with polyester resins if acetone is not available, as it dissolves the polyester, this is the effect you may get using wet resin over a base of cellulose.

supaboat

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Re: Which fibreglass to use??
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2018, 09:00:47 PM »

Thanks Brian60.Well worth keeping in mind.

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john mantova

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Re: Which fibreglass to use??
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2018, 09:46:42 PM »

Poly C Eze/ Kote are similar (maybe Same stuff ) products but there are a number of flooring products that will do the job really well. Here are some from Amazon.-----https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=water+base+varnish&index=aps&tag=googhydr-21&ref=pd_sl_1pmbktu9ww_b&adgrpid=52837839483&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=259075161092&hvpos=1t2&hvnetw=s&hvrand=8994777785741792187&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9045254&hvtargid=kwd-297864089168------ Ronseal  is a good place to start. However Oil based varnishes are still very good for the job and strangely cheaper for the most part. Re the glass cloth I would choose the lightest  available. It is the easiest on compound curves I think.It's also the easiest to fill the weave on. Providing the surface it's applied to is perfect it makes a lovely finish with minimum effort. 8) :-))
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Subculture

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Re: Which fibreglass to use??
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2018, 12:02:01 PM »

I use epoxy. If you want to make it easier to sand, apply a final coat with some tac mixed in, and it will sand as back smooth as silk.

supaboat

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Re: Which fibreglass to use??
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2018, 07:09:53 PM »

Thanks guys.
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RST

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Re: Which fibreglass to use??
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2018, 10:58:53 PM »

"Ronseal  is a good place to start"
...Ronseal has changed over the years.  I'm tearing my hair out with it now.  The water based stuff dries instantly -can't even brush it out.  The 5 year oil based stuff I used to swear by but it's acrylic now -I'm lucky if I get can 2 years out of it max and it dries so fast the finish is rubish!  I'm doing all my woodwork with 5 year guaranteed -and re-doing it all every 2 years with the modern stuff.


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nmbrook

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Re: Which fibreglass to use??
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2018, 03:08:12 PM »

I have always used Zpoxy.You get a decent amount of 'open' work time with this product.


Regarding Ronseal,you can still get the original Polyurethane marketed as 'diamond hard'.The confusing factor is they do an acrylic base polyurethane also sold as Diamond Hard.Most places don't carry the spirit based one.I know only two oldschool hardware stores that carry it near me.The only way to tell is that the spirit based one is labelled high VOC content on the back of the tin.


Regards


Nigel
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Which fibreglass to use??
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2018, 03:44:06 PM »

Blackfriars and Rustins still do the spirit based variety in small tins but you will normally only find it in specialist hardware shops. Wilko used to do their own variety but no longer appear to stock it.
Colin
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grendel

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Re: Which fibreglass to use??
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2018, 06:50:41 PM »

a lot of the ships chandleries still stock the good stuff as the water based is pretty useless for a marine environment. I was supplied with a tin of Rylard vg66 premium varnish and a tin of real turpentine by my friend as it is the same as he uses on the real boat I am modelling.
ps  one warning, buying from chandleries expect to pay premium prices.
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