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Author Topic: Where to start  (Read 2399 times)

bremhillbob

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Where to start
« on: September 19, 2018, 03:32:15 pm »

Hi all


new boy here ....!


I have an old wooden 'Nelson' style ship - for display not 'sailing' (about 18" long).  It was given to me some 40 years ago as a 'project' and I haven't touched it.  I'm thinking now is the time.  It has sentimental value so "don't bother" isn't really an option I want.


I'm not looking to be 'world class' and authentic but rather diy and 'tidy'.


I was told that it was 'scratch built' but many parts look as if they have been manufactured - of course much is missing. I did try to upload a picture but the post failed so might try again later.


One kind enthusiast suggested building a model kit first to get the 'feel' of things and this seems sensible so Q1 is does anyone have any recommendation of kits to buy that are challenging (more than just 'assembly') but not ridiculous (you start with a block of wood and some plans). The names Amati and Caldercraft have been mentioned.


Q2 would be about finding help, encouragement and support in the North Wiltshire area?  Any thoughts?
 
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dreadnought72

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Re: Where to start
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2018, 04:27:51 pm »

Hi Bob,


If you want inspiration (to a level where you might just take up knitting instead!) I would urge you to take a look at the NRG Ship Model Forum. You'd need to register there to see the threads. They're a world-wide group pretty much dedicated to wooden-built traditional models, scratch and kit, and there is some amazing work done there.


But stick around here, too! MBM is a broad church, and full of helpful advice.


Good luck!


Andy
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SailorGreg

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Re: Where to start
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2018, 04:43:10 pm »

Welcome to the wonderful world of ship modelling!  I hope you do justice to your project, and if you can crack posting pictures we will all enjoy the journey.  Making a kit first is probably a good start, especially if you have little or no previous modelling experience.  However, choosing the right one can be a bit of a minefield.  Do you want it simply as a practice piece, or are you hoping for a display piece in its own right?  If you peruse the static display kits on the Cornwall Model Boats website you will find a vast range of price, complexity and style.  Assuming you look for a kit of the same type and era as your model, you can go from the quite affordable like this to the frankly :o %% %% like this!  The first of these really is a starter kit to introduce the novice to the feel of building.  Only you can decide how complex a kit you want to start with, but once you start paying over about £150 for a kit you are probably looking at a project of several months. 

One word of advice I will offer - choose a ship that you find attractive.  You have to like what you are building, even if it is just as a trial.  And once you have chosen a kit (and before you buy it) pop the name into a search engine.  You will probably turn up some Youtube videos and/or build logs of that kit (maybe on Model Ship World as recommended by Andy), and you might gain some useful insights before parting with your money.

But most of all, remember it's supposed to be fun!  We all forget that now and again when some pesky piece won't fit or you slice off a piece of flesh, but it's worth it in the end!

Greg

bremhillbob

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Re: Where to start
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2018, 05:37:14 pm »

Ah the attachment thing .... I'm getting there but because the error clears the message it's meant I've had to write the reply several times ....  hey ho ... gonna need that patience .... I'll upload the attachment in a different post


ANYWAY ... thanks for the speedy replies guys (is this hobby another 'mainly male' domain?). Certainly got me thinking.


The clear goal is to develop skills rather than anything else.  I'd like to end up with something worth looking at but I don't think it would go on display anywhere (ie it won't be in my living room).


I'm a superficial fan of the Nelson Era ships (read a couple of books on Trafalgar - that sort of thing) and this is broadly what the restoration project is so that defines what I need - sails, rigging etc.  I had a sudden thought about a pirate ship?  this would allow me some license and I could disguise mistakes as 'damage'.  I could happily go 'off piste' a bit and have some fun ... that could work.


I suppose budget is important. I guess I could spend up to (say) £100 if I needed to but I think I'd need to find a balance between spending hundreds of hours cutting out individual pieces of wood and just a glue together kit.  Bearing in mind that my restoration project is almost built I think the emphasis for my model no 1 should be towards the 'kit' end of the scale.
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bremhillbob

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Re: Where to start
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2018, 05:39:43 pm »

here is the picture
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Where to start
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2018, 05:53:42 pm »

I'm afraid that ship is not 'Nelson Era', it is much earlier, closer to a Spanish Galleon I would think, or even late medieval.

The other thing that strikes me is that from the photo it doesn't seem to be of very high quality, if you will forgive me of saying so. If you build a Caldercraft Nelson's Navy model you will have a far superior piece of work and are unlikely to want to go back to your original project.

Colin
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unbuiltnautilus

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Re: Where to start
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2018, 06:11:47 pm »

I see the makings of a Pirates Of The Caribbean style ship there. I would go for something with a dose of poetic licence built into it...Well worth just having a go..
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dreadnought72

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Re: Where to start
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2018, 06:51:18 pm »

We're looking at a home-brewed Mayflower or Golden Hind (more likely) here. Deffo what I'd describe as a galleon.

If you want a book that explains all things galleon, I'd recommend the (sadly) out of print The Galleon, The Great Ships Of The Armada Era. Downside is it now costs a lot. Further downside, I can't find my copy.

An excellent (cheaper!) guide to restoring the rigging would be Brian Lavery's book Susan Constant.

Andy
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Perkasaman2

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Re: Where to start
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2018, 08:45:59 pm »

It's definitely Tudor era.
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Arrow5

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Re: Where to start
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2018, 11:07:40 am »

Is it a semi-scale Golden Hind.   Should be plenty of information on that ship.
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bremhillbob

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Re: Where to start
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2018, 06:50:57 pm »

Hey guys, fantastic, this is really helpful.


Have to agree that the 'quality' isn't high but I'm not restoring it for 'display' purposes - rather it's all about sentiment for me, a very personal undertaking.


its fantastic that you've actually recognised it as 'something' ... having a 'basis' is going to help a lot I think.  I'm not worried at all about authenticity but if I concentrate on the Golden Hind then I've something to guide me when I have decisions to make.  This also makes me wonder if I might get a kit 'Golden Hind' so that I can build my knowledge and skill at the same time.


Definitely think that 'poetic licence' will be called into play here!


Anyone know of folk in the North Wiltshire area who might help guide and encourage?


Thanks for comments and support
Bob
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bremhillbob

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Re: Where to start
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2018, 07:26:27 pm »

Well, I've found a copy of "Susan Constant" (at a reasonable price (£15)) so I'll give that a go.  The other one "The Galleon" seems to be reasonable in the states but P&P to the UK is massive ($70 in some cases) - this one might have to wait a while ....

Also - I think maybe a good Golden Hind model is (maybe) beyond 'beginner' level  ... I'm thinking something simpler (and cheaper) is still a good idea.[
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bremhillbob

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Re: Where to start
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2018, 07:54:23 pm »

I found this kit:
https://www.alwayshobbies.com/model-boats/model-boat-display-kits/occre-golden-hind-85th-scale-model-ship-kit


it says it's Ok for beginners? - looks 'cheesey' to me - I'm inclined to think a simpler model of better quality would be the way to go.


I also note that my model is 540mm from bow to stern. www.elizabethan-era.org.uk/the-golden-hind-ship.htm suggests that the actual model was 21.3M (21300mm) - roughly about a 40th scale?  Is this anything like 'normal'? - will I be able to purchase 'parts'?
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bremhillbob

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Re: Where to start
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2018, 08:00:42 pm »

where as something like this:
https://www.hobbycraft.co.uk/constructo-golden-hind-wooden-model-ship-155/631080-1000


looks to be roughly the same scale and I could build it then cannibalise the parts (eg sails and rigging (or are sails considered to be rigging?)).


I'm starting to think about Triggers broom ...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAh8HryVaeY
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dreadnought72

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Re: Where to start
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2018, 12:25:03 am »

Hi Bob,


The best thing about Lavery's book is that he delves deep (very deep - be warned!) into how Elizabethan naval architects worked up hulls from the scantiest design requirements. Basically the required tonnage drives every detail of the hull.


For the Golden Hind (as with the Susan Constant) there's really precious little evidence relating to the vessel, other than the likely tonnage. So it's possible to recreate a hull of Elizabethan flavour that fits any named ship, but the particular details of any named vessel are unknown.


The bad news here is "we'll never know'; but the good news, as modellers, is "you can't say this is wrong"! (Within reason, of course!)


If you're getting the Lavery book, you'll have your hands on loads of details for the masts, mast fittings and rigging that was appropriate to the time. Maybe you should clean and keep the hull you have, and brew up new sails and masts for her? The finished ship will then have the core sentimentality inherent in her, with a fresh finish?


Andy
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bremhillbob

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Re: Where to start
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2018, 08:55:57 pm »

Hi Andy,
Yes, you've hit the nail on the head. Do a bit of stripping and cleaning then add new where necessary.
I think I'll struggle with the patina and may have to clean most of it back a fair way in order to be able to seal it (as in seal the timber - not make water tight)
I think it'll mostly be about sorting out the rigging and sails - this is where the 'Constructo' kit could be helpful I think
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