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[andrewh]

Progress on my tribute Hellkit

[andrewh]

Torpedoes are rolled paper and blue foam ends - in the last picture two of them have been coated with my favourite filler - fast-drying acrlyic primer filled with microbaloons.  They weight a bit less than nothing

 All the parts are about 80% of the plan size since that is the approx ratio of lengths - I can't do anything about the starved-horse look, so i am going to calin that this is a hitherto unknown prototype made by the aeromodellers at Higgins Boat using the bare minimum of scantlings and neat dope.

She will be finished in a White/grey blur splinter camo pattern as this prototype was  shipped to the Aelutian Islands for operational tests.  Motor in the boat is  a 7.2V S400 at the moment, but it is a 10 sec rubberband swap for a brushless.

Bridge structure to be carved in Blue foam with wind deflectors, etc in styrene or ply, or balsa depending on what's to hand at that moment.

andrew

[andrewh]

Hellkit Launched!

I am having a lot of fun turning this hull into a stand-way-off Hellcat tribute

As is traditional in this picture the torpedoes are held on by bluetack and the supestructure by gravity

I may give her an outing at the UK Footy Nats tomorrow at Aylesbury.

Anyone in the vicinity who wishes to have a go with a racing Footy will be very welcome and be offered a Footy to try if not a series of races!

andrew

[andrewh]

Glyn,  I tried your method of getting the right size rings - I sucked a Donut very carefully, but never did get it suitable for use as a Carley Float!
andrew

[andyn]

I gave up with polos in the end and had to cut them from depron

Mine's now fitted with the simply excellent ACTion Micro Diesel Sound system. Couldn't hear it at first because the speaker was inside the hull however have solved this and it is now a great addition to the model.

The speaker slides fairly easily out of its mount and is also connected to the unit via some gold plated connectors, making for easy removal of the top deck.

This morning it was on patrol in the lake, keeping an eye on the canoeists and Bernard's new R/C Duck

Apologies for poorness of photos, taken on phone as my dad has my camera today.

[andyn]

As is traditional in this picture the torpedoes are held on by bluetack and the supestructure by gravity

That poses an intersting question, how do you hold the deck on? There is not mention in the plan or in the documentation.

With mine I did it by gravity but at the back I have two swivelling servo horns

[andrewh]

Andy,

Didn't get a maiden flight yesterday - too busy racing the Footys.

However my 13 year old son was there sialing too, and in the gaps we watched the local club sailing their assorted coastal craft - there were a couple of large Perkasas (one marked up as PT109) a George Turner MTB going like stink and a largish PT boat.  My lad wanted to know why we couldn't make a large, impressive boat like that?
We will: thanks again , Glyn

My deck hatch was made long before the plan, so it is basically a square over the motor (I always entomb my rudder servos - if there is a problem I can always commit surgery).  The deckhouse and forward torp tubes are integrated onto the hatch as well.
Like you I usually fit a couple of hatch-catches.  I usually cut mine from a length of clothes-peg with a small screw for a pivot

This time I will try a supermagnet at the rear, with a hook at the front to hold it down and locate the hatch.  If that fails I will use the catches

It has just ocurred to me that we have many 8xAA pencell packs from model Hovercraft etc, and these would probably give a brief but exciting motor run - must give it a try!
andrew

[GG]

The prototypes hatch is held down by a balsa "tongue" at the rear edge which fits under the fixed deck.  The front of the hatch is secured by a nylon bolt through the deck in the cockpit area which screws into a nylon bracket fixed to the plywood motor mount.  The nylon parts being from a model aircraft wing bolt set.

The same system is used on the Elco 80' PT boat and keeps the hatch in place no matter how the how much the model bounces around.  The Miami "Crashboat", being a little slower, manages with just a simple plug in deck hatch.

Glynn

[andrewh]

Glyn,

Thanks very much for the hatch information - quite a lot of us come from an aeromodelling background - hence the balsa and tissue, too

PT boat plans being dug out and copied (to allow ironing the patterns thru onto 1/4 sheet)  I think we will probably start at the plan size, then see if we need a bigger one!  I drive an Espace, so without using the roof rack we can go to about 7 foot!

andrew
I'm trying to research the authentic splinter disruptive pattern, especially the one that precisely corresponds with the matchpots of emulsion in my drawer. 

[andyn]

I have literally been TRAWLING the net for info on the Hellcat, in an attempt to add more detail. Whatever I can get, I'll take...


I'm not putting the plan down in any way, I'm just really, REALLY obssessive about such details 
The list so far...

In the first photo, you can see that there are rails on the front similar to that of the ELCO PT boats, but extend out sideways of the 'cabin'. There is a porthole on each side of the 'cabin'. There is some kind of blob on the port side front of the 'cabin', in front of the porthole that appears to be unrecognisable. The back of the 'cabin' does curve as per the plan, but is flat at the back (I won't bother changing this...). The third picture is an in service hellcat, and clearly has a cannon, possibly double barrelled on the bow. The second picture is a drawing of a typical radar mast, which I thought the Hellcat may have, however there are three b:~{*^%($ in the way in the first photo, and no mast at all in the service mod. I managed to find photo 4 which changed all this, it does have the typical mast, so I'll be updating the mast soon. The bow rails appear to go out from next to the 'cabin', slightly inwards, then to a couple of posts and down at 45ºto the deck. There is an arial emerging from between the gun turrets. The modified boat niether had a mast nor the metal cage around the turrets. There is an overhang right the way round the top deck over the side of the boat. There are no deck cleats. There is a semi-circular arc in front of the foremost torpedos. In the first photo there are three bars running vetically under the warhead of the rear torpedo, I have no idea what they are and they aren't in any of the other photo's. Finally, I'm not sure about those torpedos, they look fatter in the pictures.

So concludes our obssessive, compulsive tour of The Details Of The Higgings PT-564 Hellcat
Data of PT564, The Hellcat

    * Experimental class Motor Torpedo Boat:
    * Displacement: 40 tons
    * Length: 70'
    * Beam: 20'
    * Draft: 4'6"
    * Speed: 46 knots
    * Armament: 2-4 21" or 4 18" torpedo tubes
    * Complement: 10-11
    * 3 Packard (W-8) gasoline engines
    * Built at Higgins, New Orleans, and commissioned 2 September 1943

    The Hellcat was one of a kind, only one ever entered service.

The "Hellcat" In 1943, Higgins Industries decided to attempt to save weight and increase the speed of the boats. This was achieved on a smaller hull (70 feet) that had less mass in the area of the upperworks. That meant more speed for the boat. The Hellcat was faster than the production based PT boats of the time.

The boat was armed with two twin .50 caliber machine guns in turrets, a 20mm Oerlikon anti-aircraft gun on a tripod mount and four lightweight Mark XIII torpedoes, mounted in lightweight side-launching roll-off racks. Tests were also performed with mounting two sets of twin .50 caliber machine guns side-by-side on the foredeck and firing them remotely from the cockpit.

It was found that the Hellcat was too small to carry the extra added guns carried by the boats in action at that point of the war to the later stages of the war and the design was not put into production.

If anyone else has any other photos or info on the details of the hellcat, they shall be very gratefully recieved

Andrewh, you can see the splinter camo scheme and many other schemes ( trhough not the hellcats) at http://www.ptboatworld.com/ZebraScheme.htm and http://www.ptboats.org/

[Umi_Ryuzuki]

Great models,...

Here is a video I just filmed last Sunday...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTkvl-JzkZc

 

[Shipmate60]

I just love the sound of those main engines and the quote "they get crazy"

Bob

[andrewh]

Umi,

You are wonderful person!  Thanks very much for the Video - I had never seen any PT/MTB type craft in the water or in motion before.
I believe that the PT boat shown is a 78 foot Elco - one of the later ones?

(I'm sorrry that your springer didn't have much effect on the Landing craft, but well worth a try )

andrew

[andrewh]

Andy

Thanks for all the data on the Hellcat, apparently she was sold in 1947 or 48, but without any more information about what happened to her.

As you say there are several differences in the few pics that are around - for example the last (smaller ) pic of the stbd side seems to show the superstructure with a flat angled front (with some round thing in the middle) I can almost make myself believe that the other stbd pic shows the same flat (not pointed in plan view) front.

If anything more turns up I will contribute it

BTW - welcome to BreezyB!

andrew

 

[andrewh]

Umi,

You are even more magnificant than I first thought! 
It turns out that 658 was laid down on my birthday (but not the same year) and in looking at her restoration site I have finally seen what the Higgins exhausts looked like!
  I am sure that they exhaust underwater at low speed and open at full speed
With hindsight I would have made them from tubing or possibly Macaroni
Thanks,
andrew

[andyn]

the last (smaller ) pic of the stbd side seems to show the superstructure with a flat angled front (with some round thing in the middle) I can almost make myself believe that the other stbd pic shows the same flat (not pointed in plan view) front.

You had me confused for a bit too, however I've worked it out. Its not that its flat on the front, it still has the angles, but the camera would have taken the photo at a very quick exposure, travelling at high speed, in blazing sunshine. This must be why the other pictures aren't that much cop either.

[andyn]

Little update on the new detailing....

More to come....

[andrewh]

Andy,

You are getting this well detailed

I chased up Umi's reference and found this site with a vast number of pics of a real Higgins boat, its fittings and armament - I think that there will be a lot of detail you might be able to use since Higgins would certainly have raided the stock when it came to fitting out the Hellcat, wherever possible.
http://www.savetheptboatinc.com/
in particular there are a couple of cutaways in http://www.savetheptboatinc.com/new_page_1.htm
(at the bottom)

After all of that I have been unable to locate  the perfect picture of a Higgins  exhaust I found yesterday - they are clearly a cast Brass or Bronze part which is a smooth curved pipe which grows out of a flat flange which bolts to the side of the boat.

I don't know the layout of the engines, so I don't understand why the spacing is uneven - praps the engines exhaust one bank over each side of the boat?

I confess that I am an "impression" scale modeller, but admire those with more skill and patience - thats you

andrew

[andyn]

Andy,

You are getting this well detailed


I confess that I am an "impression" scale modeller, but admire those with more skill and patience - thats you

andrew

You have no idea how good that makes me feel  , I'm 16 and this is the first boat I've ever built.
http://louisdl.louislibraries.org/cdm4/results.php?CISOOP1=all&CISOBOX1=pt-564&CISOFIELD1=CISOSEARCHALL&CISOOP2=exact&CISOBOX2=&CISOFIELD2=CISOSEARCHALL&CISOOP3=any&CISOBOX3=&CISOFIELD3=CISOSEARCHALL&CISOOP4=none&CISOBOX4=&CISOFIELD4=CISOSEARCHALL&CISOROOT=all&t=a

Unbelievable! all the original Higgins drawings!

[andrewh]

Andy,

Well researched!
This is a total treasure trove for the Hellcat

When my 13 year old returns from holiday we will decide (spelled HE will decide) which PT/MTB we will make and how big.  Now that brushlesses are economically available up to huge sizes I see no problem with a 5 footer, but finding somewhere to run it - more of a challenge.

The attached pic is the best I have found to get an idea of the exhausts

andrew

[andyn]

Andrew, see http://www.geocities.com/mosquitoboat/fittings.html Some really nice glassfibre pt hulls and fittings there. The 1/16 scale ELCO boats are 60 inches (5 feet)

As for exhausts, open this and zoom in:

[andyn]

PT Boat fittings : http://www.nauticalmarinemodels.co.uk/PT_fittings.htm

[andyn]

More detailng - loads to come 

[Umi_Ryuzuki]

Glad everyone enjoyed the video.
I just happened to be onboard the LCI on an unofficial tour when the PT fired up to leave.
There would have been no other place to get a shot like that. 

The, "They get Crazy"... comment was made, because the "volunteers" and  vets got a chance to
take some Navy brass on a running tour up the river. At one point they opened the throttles wide to
impress the Officers. As they flew up river, they passed a county sheriff patrol boat monitoring river traffic.
The aluminium patrol boat gave chase, but was unable to gain on the PT. The had to abandon the chase, and
call ahead to another  patrol boat to rein in the PT boat and its crew of veterans.

The engines are set in the engine room, one center stern, and two forward to either side.
So I believe the stern engine exhausts out each side, and the port and starboard engines exhaust out
their respective side of the boat.

Here are some images I took Last year at the 2007 Maritime Heritage Festival.
Enjoy
 

Engine hatch in the center of the boat
Port engine (stern to the left of the picture)
Starboard engine (stern to the right of the picture)
Forward firewall, and fuel control system.
Engine room looking to the stern firewall.
Port side exhaust lines.

[Edward Pinniger]

http://louisdl.louislibraries.org/cdm4/results.php?CISOOP1=all&CISOBOX1=pt-564&CISOFIELD1=CISOSEARCHALL&CISOOP2=exact&CISOBOX2=&CISOFIELD2=CISOSEARCHALL&CISOOP3=any&CISOBOX3=&CISOFIELD3=CISOSEARCHALL&CISOOP4=none&CISOBOX4=&CISOFIELD4=CISOSEARCHALL&CISOROOT=all&t=a

Unbelievable! all the original Higgins drawings!

These should be very useful for building + detailing the old Revell "PT-212" plastic kit! (also a Higgins 78' boat). Thanks for posting the link.
One question, how do you actually save the image files from the site? There doesn't seem to be the ability to save the entire image to disk rather than just the bit you're currently viewing.