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Author Topic: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird  (Read 19571 times)

bluebird

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2008, 08:14:38 PM »

Hi there Christian

I ended up, and obtained the best results, from PVC that was 0.5 mm in thickness.

The other thing I found was, on the plywood jig, with the hole in - do not tighten the two pieces of plywood together too tightly.  Clamp them so that, with a little effort, you can move the PVC back and forwards.   This allows for movement when you push the mould through the hole and it also gives a uniform thickness around the dome.

If you clamp it too tightly, not allowing the material to move, what you will find is that the finished moulded dome is fairly thick at the top but thins out drastically towards the base.  This makes it unusable or splits which has happened to me once or twice.

Just as a sidenote, have you ever come across two versions of the turrets?  A low profile turret which is supposedly later on in hostilities to the turrets which were added when the vessels were first introduced.   

Of all of the vessels, not only with the Whaleback, but, other Air Sea Rescue Launches with the ball turrets, they all appear to be of the 'rounded type' do you know of any different ones and do you have any reference photographs????

Aye
John e
bluebird
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cdsc123

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2008, 08:00:54 PM »

Thanks John, I'll give that a try. I agree with you regarding the turrets, as far as I know they were all the Boulton & Paul aircraft type turret, although in some photos of the Hants & Dorsets they do look lower, I always thought this was because of the armour plating around the base though. I will check with the experts and get back to you on this one..
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Martin13

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #27 on: June 03, 2008, 12:57:26 PM »

Now don't forget to show us how you made those hatches and the vents. I have pen and paper ready. This stuff is really important, especially when one decides to build a model where you cannot buy ready-made fittings.

Must admit though, I'm still in awe on how you made those gun turrets - would never have thought it possible..

Bl###y  Amazing  :)

Martin doon under
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Martin13

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #28 on: June 06, 2008, 11:36:27 PM »

Thanks John for the explanation on how you made those hatches and Hinges, this is exactly what I was hoping for. I need to make transom exhaust flaps for Brave Borderer and your method is simple and perfect for the job. O0 O0

It's amazing how you make your fittings with only one fully functional arm ;)

The Brass channel - was that obtained from a hobby shop? ???

Your model is looking great - keep up the good work and How To's

Martin :)
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marksaab

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #29 on: July 19, 2008, 06:45:49 PM »

Hi Bluebird

just started following your build, wonderful stuff, your write ups are great, how do you find the time to do them!!

I saw you were looking for "For those in peril" on DVD, I just got a copy of ebay, its a buy it now and the seller has one left, actually he makes the dvd copies so I guess he wont run out!

here the item number 360072008936

I guess Christian mentioned that there is a whale back here up in Norfolk!  There is another near my boat in West Mersea, both have the same redesigned superstructure.

Anyway hope this helps.

Mark
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bluebird

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #30 on: July 20, 2008, 11:02:45 AM »

good morning there Mark

I was lucky enough to be supplied with a DVD for those in Peril on the Sea - Christian, in his goodness did that for me (I had purchased a copy on video, but I wanted to pause the video for long periods, so I could examine different aspects of the vessel, and, of course the tape began to deteriorate on the video - as they do)  :-\ .  Thank you to you for the Ebay information Mark.

Christian has been an immense help to me with information throughout the build.   I am very grateful for that.

As far as I am going with the build - it is going rather slowly at the moment - due to the fact I am busy researching some other vessels - for a possible build.

aye
john e
bluebird
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mike64

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2008, 09:28:29 PM »

Hi Bluebird
I have been reading with great interest the article concerning this build. I purchased the same plans as you about 15 yrs ago, and I hope to star building in the next few weeks. Part of the reason being confidence to tackle this project as I am a relatively inexperienced modeller at this level, but what the hell I have waited 15 yrs lol. I am planning to upscale to 1:12 giving an overall length of 63", I have a couple of questions that have troubled me and you or someone else more knowledgable than me can help with. The first being the power plant, I want a triple screw set up and was looking for recommendations for motors. The other problem I forsee is  the stringers and chine rails where they meet the bow. I have looked at the pictures you have posted but I can quiet see how you completed this. Please forgive me if you feel this is a silly question, but I need help with it. Any help, advice or additional pics of your build would be greatly appreciated.

Mike
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bluebird

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #32 on: August 17, 2008, 04:24:14 PM »

Hi there Mike

welcome to the Forum my friend; one thing I can say straight away always remember no question is a stupid question - the only stupid question is the one - one should have asked  O0

First off; concerning the whaleback build, can I ask you - are you going to build it true to scale or as near to scale as you can get.   The reason being, the original vessels had all their props turning in the same direction.  (All three were turning anti-clockwise).

This is how I built my model and I have yet to try it out on the Lake - I have a suspicion that the stern will tend to kick to one side.   The other thing is these boats with scale size rudders are notoriously difficult to turn using rudders only.

This is why myself I opted to have independent controls of each motor; through a mixer.  Which is in turn connected to the speed controllers.   This is to aid the turning circle of the vessel.   As for size of motors; the model I am building is roughly about 40 inches long; and I have equipt her with 3 x Graupner 600 motors - I intend to eventually run her on 3 x 7.2 NiCad packs.

So, looking at your intended build; of 1/12 scale - i.e. roughly 63 inches long - I would be looking for something like 700 or 800s motors with NiCads.   

Now for your next part of the question; as far as the build the chine stringers - where they reach the bow, they are notched in to what we will call 'sidecheeks' I have shown these in a small sketch and they are marked in as 'B'.

On the next drawing, you will see how I have made these 'sidecheeks' up out of 1/4 x 1/4 inch Obechi, these are glued either side of the keel at the beginning of the build and shaped when they are fairing the frames in.   You will see these marked as 'D' in the drawing  -  as for the deck stringer/gunnel stringer, when it reaches the last frame or the first frame whichever you want at the bow; it overlaps by about 1 inch past the frame - there is a plywood sub-frame shall we call it; but I normally call it a 'false deck' which is glued flush with the top of the frame and the top of the keel.  It takes the place of the stringer at the bow and is marked as 'C' on the scribble.

Hope this is of some help to you.

aye
john e
bluebird
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mike64

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #33 on: August 18, 2008, 08:36:54 PM »

John
firstly your remark about a stupid question is very much appreciated. I was thinking of running one prop clockwise to negate the effects you are expecting as well as using a proportional motor control which is controlled via the rudder control. I hope to build a near scale model due to my limited experience and progress on more accurate models at a slightly later date. I plan to start marking out sometime in the next week (got a week off work coming up). I have looked at the information and sketches you have provided and really do appreciate the time you have spared to do this. It may be fare to say, I would expect this is not the last time I pose a questions to you and any other forum members.

Mike
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Hagar

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #34 on: August 20, 2008, 12:00:10 PM »

Whilst on the subject of silly questions...

Where can I posibly find a copy of the plans for this boat? ;)
 It does look rather nice, and I am feeling the urge to build sumink.

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bluebird

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Hagar

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #36 on: August 20, 2008, 02:09:48 PM »

Thanks John O0

Set of plans now ordered! :)
Time to start buying in...

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Hagar

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #37 on: August 21, 2008, 10:54:20 AM »

And there was I wondering what you were up to!
Looking good.
I was on the net last night doing a bit of searching on the real boat. Could not find a great deal at all, however, i did find an interesting write up about the whaleback on a German model shops' websit. If you are interested, or anyone else for that matter, you can read a bit about them here. It is one of two sites that actually names the 130!
An other site I found had some good photos (of the model), but none of the real boat. The photos are quite good to but thy depict the boat in its "Yellow" paint job. 

Have you plans to include the sand sacking around the cabin?
Here are the links:
http://www.superbox.at/rescue-launch-p-2579.html  for the site with the history. (bit ironic that it is a German site) the site is in English.
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/misc/hms/rescue-72-mm/mm-index.html  For the site with the photos. even though its an airfix, it is very well done.
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bluebird

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #38 on: August 21, 2008, 11:31:36 AM »

hi ya there hagar

if you send me your email address by PM, on this forum, I would forward some pictures to you that I have - these were sent to me by a gentleman, Christian, who also visits this Forum.

john
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Martin13

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #39 on: August 21, 2008, 12:39:41 PM »

Hi ya John,

By the way, what's the current status of the whaleback build - you still making fittings or something ??? :embarrassed: O0

Martin doon under
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DickyD

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #40 on: August 21, 2008, 02:34:10 PM »

Hes done a bit of painting Martin, its on the build.

Reckon he doesn't want to rush things, either that or too many tea and forum breaks. ;)
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bluebird

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #41 on: August 21, 2008, 02:39:16 PM »

could be right about too many tea breaks.....but Forum breaks....wey aye especially when I got to keep him right on Name that Ship - but, if one looks closer at the build you will see a search light - which works ya nar.....anti shrapnel matts on the windscreens - scrambling nets Im on the go with, ventilator made and fitted, so have the clear screens on the front.   Not to mention the guns in the turrets  :P  {-)  {-)  {-) nah nah nah nah NAH!!!!    :D :D :D {-) {-) O0

aye man
John
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Martin13

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #42 on: August 22, 2008, 10:40:34 AM »

See what happens when ya dont be on the forum for a couple of weeks - ya miss things....

Apologies John O0

Martin du
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mike64

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #43 on: August 31, 2008, 08:28:47 PM »

John
I need to pick your brains as need a little advice. Considering my model is at 1:12 scale and I plan to use 3 x 700's what would your recommendations be on prop size? I was considering 40mm or 45mm three bladed, I  am currently in the process of marking out the keel and frames at this time after visiting my local graphics shop where I was lucky enough to get the keel and half frames enlarged and copied to actual size.

Thanks
Mike    O0
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bluebird

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #44 on: September 01, 2008, 02:09:52 PM »

hi ya there Mike

the original propellers on the Whaleback, as I have mentioned before, were all left-handed and the diameter of these propellers were 23.5 inches and the pitch was 23 inches.  For information, they were made out of nikel aluminium bronze.   Now with using 700 motors, obviously the true scale size of the prop would be roughly about 50mm in your case.    However, I do have a feeling this may be a little bit too big, unless of course we go down the route of 50mm fine pitch.   If you were to commence with 40mm as you suggested (plastic 3 blade props) and see how she performs on these props; then possibly you could if the model performs well upgrade to brass props & maybe go to 45mm diameter.   The reason, going up in diameter, for some reason - the brass props which you purchase off the shelves are not as efficient as the plastic ones. In most cases, this could be open to debate.

Last and final thing; have a would with Christian (Cdsc123) on this Forum - with regard to prop shafts of these vessels.   The reason being the pictures I have seen of Christian's father's boat; only had 2 props.    Now there is every chance in the world that the centre prop was removed for economy on his boat.   Just to be on the safeside double check with Christian before you proceed.    I very much doubt these vessels would be twin screw, but you never know.

aye
john e
bluebird
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cdsc123

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #45 on: September 01, 2008, 09:04:51 PM »

Hi Mike and John

That is a small can of worms into which we shall take a quick peek, as without doubt all the RAF HSL versions of the 63ft Whaleback hull had 3 full sets of sterngear mated to 3 Power-Napier Sea Lion W-12s so no worries for you guys.
The RN versions (called MA/SBs for Motor Anti-Submarine Boats, later re-designated and fitted out as MGBs) were a different proposition, as the boats which were in build for export to other countries (e.g. Poland) were fitted with 2 Rolls-Royce Merlins (approx 1100hp each at that stage) and were all taken over by the RN at the commencement of hostilities with these power units fitted. Other boats which were built specifically for the RN were fitted with only 2 of the lesser Sea Lions (approx 550hp each).
The boat dad had was fitted with 3 sets originally, the original stuffing boxes etc are all still in place. Post-war when she was in private hands and fitted with 2 cruising diesels the centre shaft etc was removed. There is however no doubt she was RN MA/SB 32, and according to the records she was built with only 2 sets. A bit of a mystery!
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mike64

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #46 on: September 01, 2008, 09:44:19 PM »

John / Christian
Once again I bow to the extent of your knowledge and thank you for the information and advice.

John
 I will go with my original plan of 3 props at 40mm (3 bladed) but I will set the shafts up so they will accommodate up to 50mm props if required. By the way how is your build progressing? I cant wait to see the latest updates when you post them.

Christian
I noticed on your model of S32 you have used three brass 3 bladed props and if my memory serves me right you wrote on the BMPT forum that you model was also 1:12 scale. If I am correct what was the running gear you used and how do you find the prop size/material.
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cdsc123

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #47 on: September 01, 2008, 10:49:43 PM »

Hi Mike

I'm afraid the S-32 model (which is at 1:16 scale) is static as dad wanted it for display only. If it were powered I would have used whichever plastic props John would have recommended, the sizes you mention seem about right to me for your boat  O0
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Hagar

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #48 on: September 03, 2008, 09:14:41 PM »

I see in the build, that you have already made provision for motor mounts which are mounted into the ribs. Now I know you have years of experiance in these matters, but how do you go about working out where they should go?
As a new beginner to all this, wośld it be easier to go with a flat deck in the hull and fix the motor mounts to this?

Ian M
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bluebird

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #49 on: September 04, 2008, 08:47:11 AM »

 O0
Hi there Hagar

To calculate the position of the rudders and prop shafts on this plan we have to use the side profile drawing of the actual vessel.   On the line drawings there are no prop shaft/rudder positions shown.  What you need to do is use the very edge of the transom as a reference point; where the transom meets the keel of the vessel.   Take all measurements for your centre rudder and prop shaft from this point.

Then, transfer them to your line drawing if you wish; or, transfer them to the keel drawing on your piece of chosen plywood.  The distance between the two outer propeller shafts and rudders come from the stern elevation of the vessel; this again, you may transfer to your bottom profile line drawing.    What I would strongly recommend is you mark your centre prop shaft on your keel because this needs to be cut and cheek pieces added prior to any part of the building of the hull.

Complete the build of the hull, without worrying about the location of the two outer prop shafts; once the hull has been completed, you can then calculate from the drawing onto the actual hull the position of your two outer prop shafts - using your centre prop shaft as a guide.

As far as engine mounts are concerned, as you have suggested, for those who are unfamiliar with building from line drawings; and have the ability to calculate frame positions for motor mounts; (which knowledge you will gain through experience) is do as you suggest by putting flat-beds in to support your motors.

Now .... for a confession - and this has no reflection on this particular plan - I redrew this plan and added an extra rib in at the stern and altered the width of the hull and the flare of the bow.  This was because I had received adequate photographs and information to correct very slight imperfections; now, before anyone thinks that this plan will not build a very true to lifelike hull, do not worry AS IT DOES because I have built a hull directly from this plan, with no modifications.

The only problem I found with the original scale and hull was at the time I built it, we did not have brushless motors or the associated electronics to go with them.   To get the best performance from this scale hull it may be better to go to the 'brushless set-up'.

Hope this is of some help.   

aye
john e
bluebird
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