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[bluebird]

 Hi try this for the plans

http://www.myhobbystore.com/ProductsList/mcs/CategoryID/80/GroupID/4/CatName/Plans%20-%20John%20Pritchard/v/9fc4093d-1f69-43c3-be33-a6673c92ded7
aye

john e

bluebird

 

[Hagar]

Thanks John

Set of plans now ordered! :)
Time to start buying in...

[Hagar]

And there was I wondering what you were up to!
Looking good.
I was on the net last night doing a bit of searching on the real boat. Could not find a great deal at all, however, i did find an interesting write up about the whaleback on a German model shops' websit. If you are interested, or anyone else for that matter, you can read a bit about them here. It is one of two sites that actually names the 130!
An other site I found had some good photos (of the model), but none of the real boat. The photos are quite good to but thy depict the boat in its "Yellow" paint job. 

Have you plans to include the sand sacking around the cabin?
Here are the links:
http://www.superbox.at/rescue-launch-p-2579.html  for the site with the history. (bit ironic that it is a German site) the site is in English.
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/misc/hms/rescue-72-mm/mm-index.html  For the site with the photos. even though its an airfix, it is very well done.

[bluebird]

hi ya there hagar

if you send me your email address by PM, on this forum, I would forward some pictures to you that I have - these were sent to me by a gentleman, Christian, who also visits this Forum.

john

[Martin13]

Hi ya John,

By the way, what's the current status of the whaleback build - you still making fittings or something ???

Martin doon under

[DickyD]

Hes done a bit of painting Martin, its on the build.

Reckon he doesn't want to rush things, either that or too many tea and forum breaks.

[bluebird]

could be right about too many tea breaks.....but Forum breaks....wey aye especially when I got to keep him right on Name that Ship - but, if one looks closer at the build you will see a search light - which works ya nar.....anti shrapnel matts on the windscreens - scrambling nets Im on the go with, ventilator made and fitted, so have the clear screens on the front.   Not to mention the guns in the turrets        nah nah nah nah NAH!!!!   

aye man
John

[Martin13]

See what happens when ya dont be on the forum for a couple of weeks - ya miss things....

Apologies John

Martin du

[mike64]

John
I need to pick your brains as need a little advice. Considering my model is at 1:12 scale and I plan to use 3 x 700's what would your recommendations be on prop size? I was considering 40mm or 45mm three bladed, I  am currently in the process of marking out the keel and frames at this time after visiting my local graphics shop where I was lucky enough to get the keel and half frames enlarged and copied to actual size.

Thanks
Mike   

[bluebird]

hi ya there Mike

the original propellers on the Whaleback, as I have mentioned before, were all left-handed and the diameter of these propellers were 23.5 inches and the pitch was 23 inches.  For information, they were made out of nikel aluminium bronze.   Now with using 700 motors, obviously the true scale size of the prop would be roughly about 50mm in your case.    However, I do have a feeling this may be a little bit too big, unless of course we go down the route of 50mm fine pitch.   If you were to commence with 40mm as you suggested (plastic 3 blade props) and see how she performs on these props; then possibly you could if the model performs well upgrade to brass props & maybe go to 45mm diameter.   The reason, going up in diameter, for some reason - the brass props which you purchase off the shelves are not as efficient as the plastic ones. In most cases, this could be open to debate.

Last and final thing; have a would with Christian (Cdsc123) on this Forum - with regard to prop shafts of these vessels.   The reason being the pictures I have seen of Christian's father's boat; only had 2 props.    Now there is every chance in the world that the centre prop was removed for economy on his boat.   Just to be on the safeside double check with Christian before you proceed.    I very much doubt these vessels would be twin screw, but you never know.

aye
john e
bluebird

[cdsc123]

Hi Mike and John

That is a small can of worms into which we shall take a quick peek, as without doubt all the RAF HSL versions of the 63ft Whaleback hull had 3 full sets of sterngear mated to 3 Power-Napier Sea Lion W-12s so no worries for you guys.
The RN versions (called MA/SBs for Motor Anti-Submarine Boats, later re-designated and fitted out as MGBs) were a different proposition, as the boats which were in build for export to other countries (e.g. Poland) were fitted with 2 Rolls-Royce Merlins (approx 1100hp each at that stage) and were all taken over by the RN at the commencement of hostilities with these power units fitted. Other boats which were built specifically for the RN were fitted with only 2 of the lesser Sea Lions (approx 550hp each).
The boat dad had was fitted with 3 sets originally, the original stuffing boxes etc are all still in place. Post-war when she was in private hands and fitted with 2 cruising diesels the centre shaft etc was removed. There is however no doubt she was RN MA/SB 32, and according to the records she was built with only 2 sets. A bit of a mystery!

[mike64]

John / Christian
Once again I bow to the extent of your knowledge and thank you for the information and advice.

John
 I will go with my original plan of 3 props at 40mm (3 bladed) but I will set the shafts up so they will accommodate up to 50mm props if required. By the way how is your build progressing? I cant wait to see the latest updates when you post them.

Christian
I noticed on your model of S32 you have used three brass 3 bladed props and if my memory serves me right you wrote on the BMPT forum that you model was also 1:12 scale. If I am correct what was the running gear you used and how do you find the prop size/material.

[cdsc123]

Hi Mike

I'm afraid the S-32 model (which is at 1:16 scale) is static as dad wanted it for display only. If it were powered I would have used whichever plastic props John would have recommended, the sizes you mention seem about right to me for your boat 

[Hagar]

I see in the build, that you have already made provision for motor mounts which are mounted into the ribs. Now I know you have years of experiance in these matters, but how do you go about working out where they should go?
As a new beginner to all this, wośld it be easier to go with a flat deck in the hull and fix the motor mounts to this?

Ian M

[bluebird]

 
Hi there Hagar

To calculate the position of the rudders and prop shafts on this plan we have to use the side profile drawing of the actual vessel.   On the line drawings there are no prop shaft/rudder positions shown.  What you need to do is use the very edge of the transom as a reference point; where the transom meets the keel of the vessel.   Take all measurements for your centre rudder and prop shaft from this point.

Then, transfer them to your line drawing if you wish; or, transfer them to the keel drawing on your piece of chosen plywood.  The distance between the two outer propeller shafts and rudders come from the stern elevation of the vessel; this again, you may transfer to your bottom profile line drawing.    What I would strongly recommend is you mark your centre prop shaft on your keel because this needs to be cut and cheek pieces added prior to any part of the building of the hull.

Complete the build of the hull, without worrying about the location of the two outer prop shafts; once the hull has been completed, you can then calculate from the drawing onto the actual hull the position of your two outer prop shafts - using your centre prop shaft as a guide.

As far as engine mounts are concerned, as you have suggested, for those who are unfamiliar with building from line drawings; and have the ability to calculate frame positions for motor mounts; (which knowledge you will gain through experience) is do as you suggest by putting flat-beds in to support your motors.

Now .... for a confession - and this has no reflection on this particular plan - I redrew this plan and added an extra rib in at the stern and altered the width of the hull and the flare of the bow.  This was because I had received adequate photographs and information to correct very slight imperfections; now, before anyone thinks that this plan will not build a very true to lifelike hull, do not worry AS IT DOES because I have built a hull directly from this plan, with no modifications.

The only problem I found with the original scale and hull was at the time I built it, we did not have brushless motors or the associated electronics to go with them.   To get the best performance from this scale hull it may be better to go to the 'brushless set-up'.

Hope this is of some help.   

aye
john e
bluebird

[Hagar]

Thank you for a very informative reply!
Could you give as good a reply to this one? The inside of the hull, you treated that with a resin, to protect it from water in the hull, and the out side was epoxied and wrapped.
Couldn't go into that in a little more detail could you.

Also, is it possible to plank on top of a resin/epoxy. If so what glue would you suggest?

[bluebird]

Hagar Hi there Mate

Yes, the inside of the hull was sealed with inexpensive polyester resin, the reason for this, is that the inside of the hull is not as subjected to the same wear and tear treatment as the exterior.

The exterior of the hull, the first layer of planks were Obechi timber.

the second and outer layer were of Mahogany.   This, then, was given 2-3 coats of pure Epoxy Resin - no matting or any other material was added.   

This Epoxy finish was then rubbed down to the desired finish for painting.

Before I answer your next question, I need to ask you why do you wish to seal the inner planks, before you 'lay up' over the top?    Yes, I do realise that in real life there was a skin of Calico with red lead put on between the two layers of planking.   Are you trying to assimilate this, as Gribeauval does with his lifeboats?

or

Are you concerned in case you acquire a leak between the planks????

If it was me going to glue on top of Epoxy, or a Polyester; I would be tempted to use a superglue - knowing full well the exterior planking is going to be sealed completely with another coat of Epoxy resin.

To be honest, I would think this was a bit overkill, although having said that - what materials are you proposing planking the hull with?

aye
john

bluebird

[Hagar]

To be 100% honest, I will be doing the deck i mahogani and clearcoating it!
Needless to say this hull, in my build will not be finnished as a rescue launch, but as a conversion....

Bit like a 60's runabout if you understand what I mean.  ???

[mike64]

John
I found this web site and may be of interest to you and others:

http://www.mwadui.com/HongKong/Crest.htm

Mike

[mike64]

Hi John
I would like to pick you brains again, I have enlarged my plans from 1:24 to 1:12 and proceded to convert the half frames to full frames using tracing paper. I since transposed a number of these onto my 4mm ply. I have noted that I appear to be making a complete hash of all the frames in respect of the area where the top chine stringer locates. It appears I have been unable to correctly translate this from the drawing. If I look at the plans the frame view it seems the view showing half frames from the bow to the forth frame have somewhat rounded corners.

Can you advise how to get this part of the marking out as accurate as I can considering my limited experience with this level of build.

Thanks
Mike

[bluebird]

Hi Mike

After reading your posting, may I express a little concern here.   The concern is to do with your proposed use of using 4mm ply - for the frames.     What concerns me is, the overall length of this hull will be some 60 inches long.   The frame spacings in that - to use 4mm ply for frames - of a hull this size - you really need to be having double the amount of frames into the build.   The preferred thickness should be 8mm thick ply for the frames; and then you could comfortably accommodate 6mm square stringers, which I think you are going to have to add 2-3 more stringers per side and bottom than I myself fitted into my model.

A bit food for thought for you Mike.

Now the next thing, your chine line - if you see on the build which I am doing at the moment, you will see I actually marked in what they call the water lines onto the frames; these are the horizontal lines which you see marked onto the frames.   You also see the vertical lines.     These lines, when they are traced onto the actual ply wood help us keep the trueness of the frame, knowing that the vertical lines should be parallel with the centre line of the frame; and, also, the horizontal lines should be parallel to the building board line.  -   This is how I keep the squareness and trueness of my frames sometimes.   The other thing to think of, we are going to put notches in for the chine stringer, and, so the radius' which I believe you may be concerned about - will be removed, because you will be cutting the notches out to facilitate the fixing of the chine stringer.

I hope this helps you a bit, if not, you know where I am - you have the Forum and my email address also.   

aye
john e
bluebird


 

[mike64]

John
Your concern over the 4mm ply is noted, I was planning on using these as templates for the final build as they would be useful if I wanted to rebuild hull for diffrent variant of this craft. The small problem I have found is the I can not seem to get the top outer edge of the frames where the top chine I think it is refered to as the deck chine correct.

The drawings are a not as positive as I would have felt comfertable with to ensure accuracy. The pictures you posted show a more positive and defined layout. I am continplating going back to phase one and drawing the fames based on the line drawings rather than tracing half frames and converting to full frames from enlarged frame drawings.

Mike

[cdsc123]

Hi John

Just seen the photos of the almost completed Whaleback. Congratulations, it is without a doubt the most accurate model of one of these I'm aware of 
In answer to your question I'd say the only things left are the finishing touches i.e. the roundels, the red & white chequer board markings and the ensign.

Take care,

[bluebird]

   Christian

Thank you very much for the kind compliments.   With regard to the checker boarding, can you answer this, I read in a book that the red and white chequer board markings on the foredeck are only painted on when the vessel had equipment aboard to communicate with aircraft?   ah....

The roundells are on my son's painting board - reason why - he can paint circles great!  I can't - I can't paint ...... 

the Ensign - story behind that one....I ordered a small one instead of the large.

What we have missed - have a look at the number on the deck - the centre of the 6 is supposed to be white edged.......I will do that.   

John

[cdsc123]

Hi John
Your attention to historical detail is as good as your attention to modelling detail as the HSLs were painted with an over-all grey scheme on the upperworks with only the wheelhouse roof in yellow (they had all yellow upperworks including the decks previously) and later when they were all fitted with VHF they were painted up with the red & white chequer-board pattern on the foredeck. So your model depicts her in between the two schemes, nice one!
Kind regards,

[DickyD]

Good grief, now I'm hallucinating, I'm imagining that you have floated 2 boats in 2 weeks, cant be true. 
Next I will be imagining that you have at long last floated your PT boat John.
Must go for a lie down, think the glue fumes have got at me. Managed 3 hours in the shed today.

Boat looks great John.
Must be the first time youve built one quicker than me

[Seaspray]

Hi John   

Finished the documents now have changed them to PDF files and on disc. Have all the pictures of the completed model and the ones on the water..looks great      

Whats next ????  :)

[Hagar]

Hi there Bluebird.
Just seen the latest photos of the "almost finished" as you put it, of this build.
Looks really great! Job well done if you ask me.
Now I'm sitting looking at the plans for this boat and thinking; How can I slpi this one past SWMBO  ???
Shall we just say she is not a great fan of "warships"....

Would also just like to say a big thank you for a very good Master class. I'm looking forwards to the next one.

[bluebird]

 

thank you for the kind comments .     Just go for it mate, it is an enjoyable build -  nothing ventured nothing gained. 

Aye
John

[tomocj]

Hi Bluebeard.
             Studied your build thread with interest ,I'm building a deans marine ASRL The superstructure (replaced) portholes seem to be large if you cut them out to the marked line. any ideas as to how to make them a neater looking porthole?
If I was to make the porthole smaller I would still be left with the raised cut out line would it be worth using fine plastic strip to make a frame of sorts ?Any advise welcomed.Chris

[bluebird]

Bluebeard here oh ah...me hearties....

Hi there Chris, Would there be any way of backing off the portholes with thin plasticard on the inside?  rubbing down and rubbing off the raised area on the outside??   

Then recutting a smaller side window/s   /portholes in the plasticard which you have pasted on the inside of the superstructure.

As I did, you could then put plastic inserts in, the correct size, fill them with either Plastic filler/P38 car body filler.

This would blend in the oversize opening to the new size - this would be the way I would approach it - but, don't forget, there are 'eyebrows' over the top of the portholes - I don't know if these 'eyebrows' are included on the mouldings, but, they are a noticeable feature on the vessel.

The other thing to take note of, are the wheelhouse side windows; they are slightly wrong on Deane's , as far as I can see anyway.    The little triangular one at the front - the bottom of the triangle actually slopes down slightly - I will try and dig out a photograph to show you what I mean 

Hope this helps.

aye
john e
bluebird

[tomocj]

Thanks bluebeard,
           Allowing for the eyebrow over the top would solve it ,I had cut the entire raised part of the plastic away leaving a gapping chasm rather than a porthole i will give it a go .Thanks again .
                                         Chris

[flytier07]

John as someone who is recently starting in the hobby of boat modeling I have found your build both informing and interesting, I look forward to seeing the finished model.
Geoff  (flytier07 )

[john allsop]

I have just found the site. Interesting to read about the whaleback, i built one some years ago from John Prichard,s plan but i couldn,t make the domes so i just left them as wire frames without glazing, maybe now i might try and glaze them although supplies have to be mail order. My whaleback is No 156 with yellow deck which it had and later it was painted gray, I have 9 RAF boats.

[bluebird]

hi there John

Thanks for the comments, I have one other air sea rescue launch - Vosper 72 ft one - there are some photographs on this forum of the model.

With regard to making the domes, I myself had several attempts at making them.  What I found was that the 2 pieces of plywood which hold the perspex in place (with the hole in the centre) don't clamp these together too tightly.   Leave them slack enough, so, that with a bit of pressure you can move the perspex between the 2 pieces of plywood.   Then, heat the whole assembly up in a conventional oven, so that the perspex just begins to 'sag' then take it out of the oven and then force your male former through the hole.

Also as a note, on your male former put a reference mark for where to stop - in that way you don't push too far through and split the dome.

Another thing is, when you build the plastic cage around the outside of the clear plastic dome, paint the inner edges of your plastic strip which come into contact with your dome.   Paint them either a matt black/dark grey as, if you don't the white plastic shows through like a sore thumb when you have finished.

If you need any more help send me a pm.

Hi Flytier07, the model is all but finished now - there wasn't much more to do to it when the last pics were put on here.   The only thing I have done now is to put NiCad batteries in her; and it is keeping her on the surface of the water and also trying to increase the running time on the water.  7 mins running time is a little bit short.....

aye
john e
bluebird